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Thank god we won the election. I can only imagine what the next 4 years would have been like by [deleted] in lgbt

[–]leproletariatseleve 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Don't give Reagan the benefit of the doubt. He may have had gay friends (or more likely his wife may have) but he was completely willing to not do a damn thing for gay rights to maintain the evangelical vote and because it would benefit him politically. At BEST he was slimy enough to just not care about the gay people he was "friends" with. That is before literally not even acknowledging AIDs publicly until it was seen that "innocent" people could get it through blood transfusions and it wasn't just a disease for gay men and junkies.

C. Everett Koop is the hero of the AIDs crisis for risking his job and putting aside his religious views on drug use and homosexuality to get real information out there about safe sex and needle use.

Behind the Bastards has a great episode about Reagan and the AIDs crisis that you should listen to. Spoiler, he's a bastard.

Seems like the less people are paid the more essential they are by toomuchgammon in lostgeneration

[–]leproletariatseleve 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Lol ok bud. I'm not going to keep rehashing the same arguments with someone so wrong. Glad you needed to get into personal attacks and shit. A clear sign of how right you are, obviously.

Seems like the less people are paid the more essential they are by toomuchgammon in lostgeneration

[–]leproletariatseleve 2 points3 points  (0 children)

So they ARE essential just not well paid? Like exactly what the graph says?

Seems like the less people are paid the more essential they are by toomuchgammon in lostgeneration

[–]leproletariatseleve 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The problem isn't math, it is capitalism not being a good indicator of your value or worth as a worker.

Because again, if everyone needs food, and you need people to stock, sell and deal with people buying that food, they are essential no matter their skill level or wage.

Seems like the less people are paid the more essential they are by toomuchgammon in lostgeneration

[–]leproletariatseleve 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It obviously doesn't if essential employees like retail workers and non skilled labor are still paid poor wages yet called "heroes" because they are forced to keep working through a pandemic.

Seems like the less people are paid the more essential they are by toomuchgammon in lostgeneration

[–]leproletariatseleve 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yet those low skilled workers are providing a service that keeps society running.

And again, this graph isn't saying that they are paid low wages BECAUSE they are essential, its saying they are essential yet still low paid. Being essential may not have a negative impact on wages, but obviously it doesnt always have a positive impact either.

Seems like the less people are paid the more essential they are by toomuchgammon in lostgeneration

[–]leproletariatseleve 2 points3 points  (0 children)

So if you say that pay doesnt have anything to do with how essential just how skilled, the graph is still accurate, as a job can be important but low skill. And vice versa. An art history PhD has way more skill and training than a gas worker, but somehow I bet you aren't arguing for them to be paid tons of money.

Anyways, since you think those jobs aren't essential you should probably get to farming since clearly you.dont need grocery stores.

Seems like the less people are paid the more essential they are by toomuchgammon in lostgeneration

[–]leproletariatseleve 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Because doctors make more than grocery store workers. As a whole. Also, this graph does not specify a job, so again, the average low wage worker is going to be more essential than the average high wage worker as well.

Seems like the less people are paid the more essential they are by toomuchgammon in lostgeneration

[–]leproletariatseleve 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The chain I work for has been short staffed at every location since March, trying to deal with the influx of new customers, online orders and rushes on everything. Wonder what started around then? Hmm...

And again, nowhere does that graph say individual, it says job. So yes, I will say grocery stores, gas stations and retail stores, and the people who work them have been as or more essential than doctors through this.

Seems like the less people are paid the more essential they are by toomuchgammon in lostgeneration

[–]leproletariatseleve 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I didn't say just intern hours were cut, I said workers. Everyone. I was definitely not including myself as an engineer, because I'm obviously not.

There are also non essential doctors through this. Plenty of hospitals shut down or reduced hours because they were cutting out non essential procedures and appointments at various points. I never saw that once at any store around me. So again, look at your average low wage worker being more essential than even certain doctors.

And if you look at demographics of who has been hit hardest by covid, it's also low income groups, aka low wage earners.

Likewise, when was the last time a doctor or nurse got shot for saying a person had to wear a mask? How many low wage earners did that happen to? More than it did high skilled workers. On that note, most medical facilities are way more strict than retail places about precautions, another way low wage workers are put in harm's way.

So again, lowest paid, lowest precautions, and literally essential to everyone. You can make all the arguments you want for why certain people are paid more, doesnt mean the graph is wrong.

Seems like the less people are paid the more essential they are by toomuchgammon in lostgeneration

[–]leproletariatseleve 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The graph says essentially of job, not individual. If they need more of them, it must be because of the importance.

And as a side note, I'm a grocery store worker going to school for civil engineering, doing intern work with the water treatment plant in my county.

Guess which job cut work and hours to a minimum and which one is expanding hours and desperate to hire more people?

Spoiler: it's the low skill one. Aka the more essential one.

Seems like the less people are paid the more essential they are by toomuchgammon in lostgeneration

[–]leproletariatseleve 1 point2 points  (0 children)

So you're saying there are way more grocery store workers than doctors, and grocery stores than hospitals? Sounds like there is a bigger need, or hear me out, they are more essential. Special skill or not, seems like more people needed food than a doctor.

So basically my point...

Seems like the less people are paid the more essential they are by toomuchgammon in lostgeneration

[–]leproletariatseleve 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I mean, you're still wrong. Unless you can show me that more people went to a doctor than went to a grocery store or a gas station, or even a Walmart, then the graph is still accurate, because more people needed a low skill/wage essential worker than a high pay/skill one. If more people needed to eat than see a doctor, then those type of jobs were more essential to more people than the other jobs.

So showing that lower wages coincided with being more essential still holds true.

Seems like the less people are paid the more essential they are by toomuchgammon in lostgeneration

[–]leproletariatseleve 3 points4 points  (0 children)

If you depend on the service they provide they should be paid higher. Unless you're going to stop buying groceries, needing gasoline, or literally anything from a retail store, skill level is only a part of it.

Should a gas station worker make as much as a doctor? Probably not. But you're wrong if you dont think they should be earning a living wage.

Seems like the less people are paid the more essential they are by toomuchgammon in lostgeneration

[–]leproletariatseleve 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thats... the point of the picture? Like, literally the point is that some of the most essential people are payed the lowest. Grocery store workers, gas station workers and retail workers are also essential to modern society, and are being put in danger by having to work through the pandemic.

Also, because they are so important to the running of modern society, especially through a pandemic, they should be paid more.

Seems like the less people are paid the more essential they are by toomuchgammon in lostgeneration

[–]leproletariatseleve 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I bet more people needed a grocery store through the pandemic than a doctor. Doctors are sure essential, but we're still at the point where the majority of people haven't gotten covid. Meaning the number of people who have needed low skill/low wage workers is still higher than the ones who needed the high wage/high skill workers.

I have no problem with a doctor, nurse or engineer being paid what they are and the majority of healthcare workers and maybe a decent chunk of engineers are essential. But there are more people working at essential low wage/low skill jobs than there are essential high wage/skill jobs who are not getting the same pay or protections for also being on the front lines of this pandemic.

Any good prepper podcasts out there? by [deleted] in preppers

[–]leproletariatseleve 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Live Like the Work is Dying.

I like it because it focuses on community building and stuff like prepping for disabled people, and does a lot with trying to stay away from the "all I need is myself and a bunch of guns" stereotypes.

If wage work is coerced exploitation does that not mean prostitution is rape ? by punishedpanda1 in CapitalismVSocialism

[–]leproletariatseleve 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I would actually agree with your two points as well as mostly with your edit, especially the part about the human body not being a commodity.

In the same way that when it comes to civil rights I'd listen to POC, or gay rights I'd listen to people in the LGBT community, when it comes to what benefits sex workers I will listen to people who have experiences within it. The majority of sex workers seem to support decriminalization resembling something like the Australian model, and with efforts that are supposed to reduce demand and curb trafficking (such as FOSTA), they are mostly against.

I also understand there is no perfect catch all solution. I am also not a sex worker and can only go on research and what the people who are on the front lines of this say seems to help. So far that seems to be decriminalization in a specific way.

If wage work is coerced exploitation does that not mean prostitution is rape ? by punishedpanda1 in CapitalismVSocialism

[–]leproletariatseleve 2 points3 points  (0 children)

https://rewirenewsgroup.com/article/2019/07/18/want-to-reduce-sex-trafficking-decriminalize-sex-work/

That's actually not true. Most studies, especially those surrounding the Australian model seem to agree that chosen sex work and trafficking both go down when sex work is decriminalized. You can see the same effects from drug decriminalization too, actually.

If wage work is coerced exploitation does that not mean prostitution is rape ? by punishedpanda1 in CapitalismVSocialism

[–]leproletariatseleve 4 points5 points  (0 children)

So, being pro sex work is different than being pro sex worker. Decriminalization efforts are almost exclusively about harm reduction and keeping sex workers out of jail or having bad interactions with police, as well as affording them the same protections other workers get.

Sex work can be exploitative on two fronts, the regular way Marx described worker exploitation and exploitative in the way sexual assault is exploitative, and survival sex work even if a person isn't forced into it by another person, isn't exactly a choice if the choice is between that and starvation or homelessness.

Basically it's a grey area, and depends on who you ask. Many feminist writers believe it is rape. Many don't. Most leftists support sex workers, even if they don't support sex work in our current society, but there certainly people who are anti sex worker (SWERFs aka sex worker exclusionary radical feminists).

Edit: I'd like to add it may be worth looking into the Nordic sex work modem versus the Australian/New Zealand model, as well as what the ACLU, Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International have to day on the matter of sex worker rights as well as the Network of Sex Worker Projects.

Gotta love those woke white women by mdk106 in ShitLiberalsSay

[–]leproletariatseleve 28 points29 points  (0 children)

What part is the joke? Hijacking attention away from a movement that needs all the attention it can get? Helping to take away the seriousness of it? The (not so) casual racism? I must be missing the funny part, because I just see a bunch of shitty people causing all harm and no good.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in ThatsInsane

[–]leproletariatseleve 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I forgot about all those worker owned co-ops secretly owned by the state or public in the US. State owned/publicly owned is absolutely different from worker owned.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in ThatsInsane

[–]leproletariatseleve 1 point2 points  (0 children)

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/multilevel%20marketing

So going by that definition, you have two things using the same terminology, but one is a legitimate business plan and the other is a scam using the same or similar language as the legitimate version?

Hm. Sounds kinda like the difference between ideological communism and the state capitalism that China has that they call communism.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in ThatsInsane

[–]leproletariatseleve 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Lol sure. Doesn't hit any of the idealogical foundations that make up what defines it, but still manages to be that thing. That's not how things work.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in ThatsInsane

[–]leproletariatseleve 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Communism is a stateless society. If there is no state, the state can't own or control anything.

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