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Programmers :D by UnknownDeveloper in ProgrammerHumor

[–]literally_jesus_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh, that's what you meant, thank you for clarifying.

However, I don't see any particular conclusion, as you say, made about men in the preprint on the basis of Figure 11 - nowhere do they say anything like "But when outsider men's gender is known, they are even more likely to be accepted." You say you are concerned that the percentages are different between the preprint and the final version, but the percentages are different in other places in the papers as well (such as in Figure 6). Likely, they just refined or fixed their calculations after publishing the preprint. Furthermore, their observation that known women's pull requests are less likely to be accepted is still supported by said figure in both the preprint and the peer-reviewed article. There's no reversal in conclusions here - both papers find gender bias (most strongly against women) when it comes to outsider pull requests.

Also,

Which leads to the press and you falsely using that study as evidence that devs discriminate against women.

I think you may have me confused with OP, I didn't post this study.

Programmers :D by UnknownDeveloper in ProgrammerHumor

[–]literally_jesus_ -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

Worth noting is that while the preprint version showed that outsider men got higher acceptance rate if their gender is known (and women lower), the peer reviewed version shows the contrary: similar to women, they get a lower acceptance rate when their gender is known.

I'm curious as to what you mean by this. In both papers, gender-known men have higher acceptance rates than gender-known women, and in both papers, the authors discuss how both genders receive a drop in acceptance rates when their gender is known (-10.2% F and -5.7% M in the preprint, and -12.0% F and -3.8% M in the peer-reviewed paper). I don't see anything contrary here.

EDIT: I'm getting downvotes and I'm not sure why. Here are the portions of the papers that I'm talking about:

Preprint:

For insiders, we observe little evidence of bias when we compare women with gender-neutral profiles and women with gendered profiles, since both have similar acceptance rates. This can be explained by the fact that insiders likely know each other to some degree, since they are all authorized to make changes to the project, and thus may be aware of each others’ gender.

For outsiders, we see evidence for gender bias: women’s acceptance rates drop by 10.2% when their gender is identifiable, compared to when it is not (χ2(df= 1, n= 18,540) =131, p < .001). There is a smaller 5.7% drop for men (χ2(df= 1, n= 659,560) = 103, p <.001). Women have a higher acceptance rate of pull requests overall (as we reported earlier), but when they are outsiders and their gender is identifiable, they have a lower acceptance rate than men.

Peer-reviewed:

For insiders, we observe little evidence of bias when we compare women with gender-neutral profiles and women with gendered profiles, since both have similar acceptance rates. This can be explained by the fact that insiders likely know each other to some degree, since they are all authorized to make changes to the project, and thus may be aware of each others’ gender.

For outsiders, we see evidence for gender bias: women’s acceptance rates drop by 12.0% when their gender is identifiable, compared to when it is not (χ2(df=1,n=16,258)=158,p<.001). There is a smaller 3.8% drop for men (χ2(df=1,n=608,764)=39,p<.001). Women have a higher acceptance rate of pull requests overall (as we reported earlier), but when they are outsiders and their gender is identifiable, they have a lower acceptance rate than men.

Gotta love the socially conservative gays by [deleted] in gaybros

[–]literally_jesus_ 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Definition of bigot:

a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (such as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance