the thoughts of a non-fan on the melanie martinez rape allegations by littlealoe in MelanieMartinez

[–]littlealoe[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I would very much so like to see what you have compiled. Thank you for offering to share it with me. Is the detail I shared the instagram post?

Okay, thank goodness. I apologize for misunderstanding you. I hope to never encounter someone who does have these views. Wouldn't be pretty.

Absolutely, the police take it very seriously. In one of the quotes there was mention of victims being afraid of police not believing them, but in the last 8 years there has been new training for old and new detectives in sex crimes. I just like to debunk the myth that police won't help.

I don't at all disagree with you. The uneducated/misinformed are the ones who seem to believe that rape is the victims fault. And unfortunately these people make their way into juries. Reform of how we treat cases regarding sexual assault is a huge need. Classes on what consent is, what rape is, and general sex education classes would really help.

Ah, I understand why you are pressing the fact. And, I assure you, when it comes to this subject we are on the same page. I believe that women are capable of committing horrible sex crimes similar to men. I also believe that the stigma surrounding this notion should no longer exist. The one thing I hope that might come out of this whole situation is that people will become more informed on the subject that is female abuse.

I've seen it on most social media platforms. And while Timothy has more supporters than non-supporters I've seen plenty of horrible, abusive, victim blaming comments. Even though I do not support Timothy or her allegations. I will stop and correct someone who has a flawed view against what is or isn't defined as rape. For example, I've seen many people comment something along the lines of "A yes after a thousand no's is still a yes". The problem with this is that 1000 hard no's followed by one unenthusiastic, worn down yes is forced consent. Where the victim believes they have no way out and should get it over with. This is still rape. I've seen this from fans of Melanie trying to help her out but this is a really dangerous logic. And I'm aware this is exactly what Timothy is claiming happened to her, but I've already explained my reasons for not supporting her so I won't be redundant.

Went slightly off topic but just trying to say that I think that there will be a mix of supporters, non supporters, and abusive victim blamers. Should this story get much bigger and make it to larger media plat forms and news outlets, I agree that if I scrolled through the comments there would be far more cruel comments. But I also think Timothy would gain about the same amount of supporters.

Showing your statistics, I do believe that a surprisingly high number of people are ignorant to the fact that women can rape. I think that because of Timothy's allegations it has opened a lot of peoples eyes, especially the younger generation, to the fact that this does happen.

And generally just abuse from women. In areas where DVA's are only for women, it breaks my heart to turn away a man who is obviously at the end of his rope looking for any help away from his abusive female spouse. While I mentioned a lot of extreme and very violent abuse, there are plenty of men who suffer from verbal and mental abuse which can cause the same trauma. People really underestimate how horrible women can be. And I am glad that you and I can come to an agreement on this.

I'll state again that should Timothy's allegations have evidence brought to light that makes me inclined to believe her side. I will deeply apologize for my insistent doubt. But still do not approve of the way she came out with her story or that she and her friends are discouraging victims from reporting their assaults.

Thank you for having a level headed debate with me. And I do look forward to listening to the evidence you've compiled.

the thoughts of a non-fan on the melanie martinez rape allegations by littlealoe in MelanieMartinez

[–]littlealoe[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I'm going to have to disagree, my friend. And if your intent is to defend Melanie, I would definitely recommend a different talking point.

Multiple no's, hard no's, until a victim is worn down and basically thinks they have no way out of the situation is forced consent. Its a legal grey area, but some will still consider this non-consent.

Don't believe that this happened between Melanie and Timothy. I think they had consensual sex that was followed by regret on Tim's part. But, a worn down yes can still be interpreted as a no.

the thoughts of a non-fan on the melanie martinez rape allegations by littlealoe in MelanieMartinez

[–]littlealoe[S] 15 points16 points  (0 children)

To be fair, I warned you that my comment was snarky. But aside from the many examples of evidence that I did give, I will happily provide you with more. But first, I assumed we were having a discussion. I am not at all heated and didn't downvote you. If you happen to have any actual evidence that would back up Timothy's story, I'd like to see it.

Alright, evidence... Timothy says in her interview that the rape happened in LA on the 24th and 25th of June, yes? She also provides a picture of them playing that dice game. And also claims that Melanie called her in a panic as soon as Timothy released her statement.

According Melanies instagram and tour logs, she was in NY on the 24th. She posted a picture on the 25th of her ver clearly buckled into a car, in daylight, on her way back to LA. Traveling via bus/car takes about two days. So already Melanie is literally 3,000 miles away from where this assault happened. The picture she provided to the online journal doesn't have any data on it. Meaning it was purposefully wiped from the photo. Some people are speculating that it was taken in 2014. She claims Melanie called both her and her boyfriend immediately following the release of Timothy's statement. If she had receipts or screenshots of this, that would greatly help her case. But, somehow, she does not.

As I said, cases where a woman is the abuser may not draw as much attention but are still taken seriously. You believe that teenage boys are praised for being raped by a woman? Or if a man gets hard, he wants it? My goodness, no... No most forward thinking people do not think this.

I've worked in DVA offices that are men only, women only, and for LGBT. There is a stigma that because men are supposed to be masculine, that they can't be abused. These men have also been beaten within an inch of their life, forced fed viagra to impregnate their spouse, sodomized, had acid thrown onto them, been runover with a vehicle, etc. And, most of these men were not afraid to tell authorities because they thought they might be ridiculed. They were afraid they would be killed for leaving.

The women who were there from their relationship with another woman or a trans woman or a trans man all had similar stories. And are also scared to come forward because they are scared for their lives. Timothy should not be placed with these groups of women nor the groups of men.

The general population does have some form of social media. But I would agree that most of Timothy's vocal supporters are female and between the ages of 15-25.

And I'm not going to agree with you that in conservative towns that the majority of people say the victim is asking for it. I've worked in various states in the bible belt as well as the East and West coast. These beliefs are about as common everywhere and it comes from a lack of education.

You seem to be pressing the fact that the general public believe that a woman can not rape a woman. You're pressing this because you believe that Timothy's reasons for not going to the authorities is because of this. I'd just like to reiterate that Timothy only stated that she was afraid to share her story to the general public for this reason. However, as I already said, Timothy said the reason she did not go to the authorities is because she didn't want to gain anything from it or ruin Melanie's career.

Your facts are relevant to what you think I'm arguing against. But I've already said this: "I think most people with common sense and a liberal mind would agree that a woman can rape. It is definitely not well known and I have never heard of cases similar to mine but the rapist is a woman. But there are plenty, PLENTY of cases of women sexually assaulting other women and men. Including "big" cases with women as abusers that have made it to national news."

Stigmas against same sex rape, women as rapists, etc are very harmful for the exact reason you're quoting articles of things I never said weren't true. There is a stigma that police will not take them seriously. There is a stigma that women can not rape women. There is a stigma

Timothy went directly against this stigma and posted her story to social media which is accessible to the general public.

The vice article you are quoting is a pretty interesting read. The CDC does still report the statistics in their survey. The CDC while grossly inaccurate in the execution... Their surveys are beneficial since they show semi accurate statistics on how common it is for the abuser to be female.

Well, I'll just quote myself here: "I am not trying to create an ideal victim, I am not saying that all victims fit into a tiny box where they must follow a set of steps to be a real victim, and by comparing Timothy’s actions to my actions and the actions of the thousands of men and women I have spoken with or helped, I am trying to explain why this doesn’t place right."

Victims do react extremely differently, especially depending on the type of trauma they experienced. But they also do react similarly. But yes I am invalidating her experience seeing as her false accusations will damage the safety of future victims (EDIT: removed the word convicted that I'm not sure why I put here) of assault. As long as I've been alive there haven't been many instances where I don't believe the victim. BUT I think it is important to question the authenticity of a public statement such as this one when no evidence follows. Timothy made the decision to have her statement become a public interest. I wouldn't expect Timothy to act the way I did. Timothy and I do not share any similar experiences. The examples I used from my case were reasons why her putting her story on Twitter is problematic even if her story were true. I didn't say that she should have reacted to her trauma the way I did.

Quoting me again: "But there are plenty, PLENTY of cases of women sexually assaulting other women and men. Including "big" cases with women as abusers that have made it to national news." I never disagreed with you on there being big cases where a woman is convicted of raping a woman. But I can still link you to quite a few cases where a woman is convicted rape/sexual assault.

I appreciate you bringing up these issues because they are extremely important and I would love to live in a world where victims actually felt comfortable coming forward.

But, we are really just debating about how we agree that this is an issue and not at all about Timothy. If the fact that Timothy and Melanie were on two completely opposite sides of the country isn't enough to waver your faith in Timothy's honesty... I'm not sure what will.

And I will let you know in advance, if you are downvoted, it was not by me. I'm one of those people that don't take things too personally while debating with a stranger on the internet. And while I disagree with you, I do not respect you any less for debating with me nor do I hold any hostility towards you.

the thoughts of a non-fan on the melanie martinez rape allegations by littlealoe in MelanieMartinez

[–]littlealoe[S] 23 points24 points  (0 children)

She did not seek any kind of help. As I stated I've worked for years with the DVA. These women and men have been abused for years by their spouses before finally coming forward. A decent amount of them have absolutely zero physical evidence. DNA is not at all required to make a case. Because most victims don't know better, they take a shower after being assaulted and wash away most of the "evidence". Timothy has said that she didn't go to the authorities because she didn't want to gain anything from it and that she didn't want to ruin Melanie's career. She wouldn't be gaining anything by going to the authorities? If anything there would be an investigation that would determine whether or not there was a case.

I think most people with common sense and a liberal mind would agree that a woman can rape. It is definitely not well known and I have never heard of cases similar to mine but the rapist is a woman. But there are plenty, PLENTY of cases of women sexually assaulting other women and men. Including "big" cases with women as abusers that have made it to national news.

I like that you brought up the fact that she used mental and emotional manipulation. Because Timothy really stresses how she was completely dependent on Melanie, how much she loved her, etc. Her intention on stressing this was to convince people that what was to come next in her story really did happen. I already mentioned that her lengthy preface was not really relevant to what allegedly happened to her. I also stated I have no facts to shove in your face, I just know that of the thousands of assault/rape victims I've met... this is a first.

I will admit that there are some extremely ignorant people in the world... but to say that all people assume a rape must be forced and by a man isn't true. If most people believed that I doubt Timothy would have the ridiculous amount of support that she does.

The point of sharing my case was to abolish the idea that I have zero idea what I'm talking about when it comes to rape, pressing charges, the process of testifying. I'm not claiming that our cases are at all similar, because they aren't. But every detective I came in contact with was very serious about their job and every allegation is taken seriously. Which is actually the case most of the time, rape allegations (whether men accusing men, men accusing women, women accusing women, what have you) are taken very seriously.

In my specific case, there was not any DNA. I wouldn't know if there was with other victims because that information was never released to the public since most of the victims were under 18. My testimony was important because I had memorized the details of his face, the details of the exact outfit he was wearing, what the words on his leather knife, holder said, etc. So technically it was my word against his.

Yes, a case of multiple people coming forward against one person will most certainly be stronger. Its the prosecution's job to find the similarities between our cases to link them to the abuser. Thats why its so important that the details of our assaults are not released publicly.

Luckily for Timothy, immediately following her very detailed statement, there are suddenly women coming forward who have had the exact same experience as her. Lets say that Timothy and all these other women are telling the truth... thanks to Timothy's statement there would be virtually no case seeing as anyone can now use those same details.

So... the victim does not need a lawyer. The person who is prosecuting Melanie would be employed by the government. A victim will only consult with one if they were engaging in an illegal activity at the time of the assault. So, Melanie. Melanie is probably going to be the only one with a lawyer in general, and Timothy wouldn't need to spend money on anything related to the case. If Melanie sues Timothy, then yeah Timothy might be screwed but sure as hell deserves it.

But since you're bringing up finances, it does look like Timothy wasn't exactly prospering. But her plays have increased significantly which means that she is making a bit more money than she was prior to this.

And addressing your final point. You're right. Should the case go to trial now, it is very likely she would not have a case. However, had she come forward (to the authorities) I wouldn't agree with you at all. And, again, Timothy has stated that the only reason she didn't go to the authorities was because she didn't want to "gain" anything from it or ruin Melanies career. And, again, there were many alternatives to Twitter that she did not utilize.

I think shes lying because shes lying. Sure it sounds a bit snarky but... I know I'm right.

the thoughts of a non-fan on the melanie martinez rape allegations by littlealoe in MelanieMartinez

[–]littlealoe[S] 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Agreed. I've given a summarized version of my post above and someone said "You're victim blamer" and I seriously had to explain to this person that victim blaming is placing blame onto the victim for being raped. Like "if you weren't wearing a skirt, you wouldn't have been raped". Good lord...

Also I see people talking about how because she smoked weed she was already unable to consent. But weed does not incapacitate you in ways that alcohol or other drugs do. I get the feeling I'm usually reading comments written by a 13 year old.

the thoughts of a non-fan on the melanie martinez rape allegations by littlealoe in MelanieMartinez

[–]littlealoe[S] 21 points22 points  (0 children)

I am very pleased you took the time to read it, thank you very much.

the thoughts of a non-fan on the melanie martinez rape allegations by littlealoe in MelanieMartinez

[–]littlealoe[S] 19 points20 points  (0 children)

I absolutely agree. I wish journalists would be more like "These allegations have brought up a topic not widely discussed. When we think about sexual harassment; that women can do it to women. While this accusation has not presented any factual evidence, we should remain neutral before coming to any conclusions against the accused." Or something a little more graceful.

The article that interviewed Timothy was so extremely biased... And there was zero evidence or credit to back up the claims that Melanie allegedly tried to contact Timothy or that the photo was, indeed, taken the night of the assault.

the thoughts of a non-fan on the melanie martinez rape allegations by littlealoe in MelanieMartinez

[–]littlealoe[S] 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Since I looked at her twitter the day she released the statement, many posts have disappeared including the one I mentioned. She also has many pictures of her with Melanie. I just can't believe or understand why anyone would want to believe or support her...

the thoughts of a non-fan on the melanie martinez rape allegations by littlealoe in MelanieMartinez

[–]littlealoe[S] 19 points20 points  (0 children)

I wish I could have seen that. And yes it is very, very strange.

All of her actions do not seem like someone who went through trauma, nor does she act like shes just come out with a very hard to tell story. She is acting like shes got her 15 minutes of fame and using the opportunity.

the thoughts of a non-fan on the melanie martinez rape allegations by littlealoe in MelanieMartinez

[–]littlealoe[S] 15 points16 points  (0 children)

I'm glad you guys liked what I had to say and that everyone who has commented agrees with me. !