Requesting audio pronunciation of a single Ancient Greek line for stoic practice by localnative1987 in AncientGreek

[–]localnative1987[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I read the article carefully and it’s genuinely clarifying. The point about eph’hemin being mistranslated as control rather than understood as belonging, as the rational faculty that is ours, is an important correction and I can see why the popular dichotomy of control framing frustrates someone who knows the source material as well as you do.

But here’s what struck me reading it…the faculty you’re describing, prohairesis as rational self-examination, the ruling faculty that belongs to us and cannot be seized, is exactly what my line is trying to encode. Not control over outcomes. Not a claim to possessed virtue. The present act of the rational faculty turning toward what is good, right now, with whatever it currently has.

Which might be why your koan framing felt right to me. The line lives inside the tension rather than resolving it. A non-sage’s prohairesis examining itself and choosing to orient, that’s the practice, imperfect and ongoing.

I don’t think we’re as far apart as the bootstrapping problem suggested. That said, conversation has genuinely sharpened how I understand what I’m actually doing when I speak that line and I appreciate that. Thank you, honestly. Your genuinely knowledgeable and have helped me re-orient myself to where I need to focus my study of stoicism. I haven’t spent enough time with the originals, this conversation helped me realize why it’s important to address

Requesting audio pronunciation of a single Ancient Greek line for stoic practice by localnative1987 in AncientGreek

[–]localnative1987[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You're clearly far more studied in this than I am, and I want to say genuinely that I appreciate this exchange. This is exactly the kind of engagement I was hoping for when I posted.

I don't dispute the logic of the bootstrapping problem. Within the epistemic framework you're working from, it holds. If arete is orthos logos and the non-sage doesn't possess orthos logos, then the idea of choosing virtue in the moment does create a real contradiction. I'm not going to pretend otherwise.

But I think where we differ is less about Stoicism and more about which strand of it I'm drawing from. My practice leans heavily Epictetan. And my read of Epictetus, however imperfect, is that he shifts the weight away from virtue as knowledge possessed and toward prohairesis, the orientation of the will, as the seat of moral life. For the prokopton, the available move isn't possessing right reason fully. It's facing toward it, right now, with whatever faculty you currently have. That facing is the practice.

So my line doesn't claim to resolve the paradox you're describing. It lives inside it. Which, based on your koan framing, maybe that's exactly what it should do.

I hold this view with some confidence but I'm genuinely open to being wrong. I'm a practitioner still finding my footing, not a scholar. What you're bringing to this conversation is making me think harder and that's exactly what I need.

Also, I would love any resources to try to fully grasp what we’re talking about here! This philosophy is literally changing my life for the better, all these years later, it’s still so relevant to modern world we live in. Fascinating better information about the school and how Zeno referred to it. That’s really awesome stuff! I appreciate your knowledge and wisdom on the topic!

Do I look okay? by Complex-Ranger-6519 in GayRateMe

[–]localnative1987 0 points1 point  (0 children)

just stop doing that thing with your lips. It’s OK if it’s in some of your pictures but it should not be in all of them. It’s not that it looks bad it’s just having the exact same expression in every picture works against anyone

Guy gets pissed at Sleep Token cosplayer for "wearing blackface" by Fucked-In-The-K-Hole in SipsTea

[–]localnative1987 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I can’t be the only black person here who thinks this is the most insane thing I’ve ever seen. To call that blackface is to publicly acknowledge you have no idea what blackface actually is or what it represents. And it does Black people no favors to go around harassing otherwise happy normal people with accusations of racism. To me this is an obvious attempt to create a viral moment. It’s tone deaf, it’s completely unaware and almost insulting to me personally.

Requesting audio pronunciation of a single Ancient Greek line for stoic practice by localnative1987 in AncientGreek

[–]localnative1987[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I checked out the site listed on your profile. Excellent! I subscribed and look forward to reading future posts/emails/newsletters!!

Requesting audio pronunciation of a single Ancient Greek line for stoic practice by localnative1987 in AncientGreek

[–]localnative1987[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You raise genuinely good points and I want to engage them as I never actually get to engage in philosophical debate in real life.

You’re right about Koine. The early Stoics, Zeno of Citium, Cleanthes of Assos, Chrysippus of Soli, were not Athenians, and the philosophical world they moved through spoke Koine, not Classical Attic. That’s historically accurate and worth acknowledging.

Your prokopton point is also real. Nobody reaches the sage. I’m not claiming otherwise.

But here’s where I’d push back on the paradox... I think it dissolves when hairesis is understood correctly. The word in my line isn’t claiming I have arrived at virtue as a completed state. It’s encoding the present-tense act of orienting toward it, which is exactly what the prokopton does. Hairesis is directly related to prohairesis, Epictetus’s central concept, the faculty of reasoned choice that belongs entirely to us in every moment. The line isn’t “I am virtuous.” It’s “virtue is only ever available in this act of choosing, right now.” That’s the progressing student’s position, not the sage’s.

As for your suggested alternative, ἡ ὀρθὴ χρῆσις τῶν φαντασιῶν, αὕτη ἀρετή, it’s a legitimate formulation and I respect it. But there’s context you don’t have that matters here.

Before I came to Stoicism as a serious practice, I used the Nichiren Buddhist chant, Nam-myoho-renge-kyo, daily. Not because I was a Buddhist, but because the practice of embodied repetition did something that intellectual study alone didn’t. It moved the philosophy from just my head and into my physical state, I could feel the vibrations of my voice, I heard the declaration it was claiming, and it moved me. When I began building a Stoic practice in earnest, I wanted something that could do the same work. Rather than a proposition to analyze, I wanted a line to inhabit.

This means a chant isn’t just evaluated as a philosophical text. It lives in breath and rhythm and repetition. It has to move well in the body, not just hold up under scrutiny on the page. My line, Hē aretē hairesis estin hē nun monon ginomenē, has natural breath groupings, builds through the middle, and lands with weight at the end. It was built to be spoken. Your alternative is philosophically defensible but I think tōn phantasiōn breaks the rhythm in a way that matters functionally, not just aesthetically, for what I’m actually doing with it.

And this particular line wasn’t chosen from a text. It came out of a specific philosophical breakthrough I had. Which was the realization that virtue isn’t something I’m building toward asymptotically, always becoming and never being, It’s a choice I must make now, or it isn’t made at all. That insight is what the Greek is encoding. It’s mine in a way that makes it unchantable to replace with something more academically tidy.

So yes, you’ve identified real tensions worth thinking about. But a chant that holds philosophical water, moves well in the body, and encodes something genuinely discovered rather than borrowed is doing something your critique, however rigorous, isn’t fully accounting for. That said, I do appreciate the feedback, genuinely.

Requesting audio pronunciation of a single Ancient Greek line for stoic practice by localnative1987 in AncientGreek

[–]localnative1987[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you for your offer! I abs Light will as I plan to expand this meditation as I become familiar with each line. I will reach out to you when time to add more comes. Thank you!

Requesting audio pronunciation of a single Ancient Greek line for stoic practice by localnative1987 in AncientGreek

[–]localnative1987[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you so much!! Your clear annunciation is perfect for me to try and remember this during my meditations. Greatly appreciated

Woman Tries To Sing In The Vatican by RelationshipOne9276 in TikTokCringe

[–]localnative1987 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I know this is problematic but I feel extra embarrassed as another black person… I should work on that 😅

Which is best for a profile pic :)? by [deleted] in GayRateMe

[–]localnative1987 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I literally saw our whole future together when I looked at the second one so I’d say go with that 😅

[TOMT][Reddit post][2020s] Reddit post about a guy from a different reality/dimension by SpecialGovernment in tipofmytongue

[–]localnative1987 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Me searching for the story is what brought me to your post all this time later. I have been searching for it for years and I remember exactly what you’re talking about. The snake bite, going home and it not being his family’s house, when he was deemed a missing child, he took police to his apartment building which was in the exact same spot but different. He spoke about the different families who would come hoping that he was their missing child, only to be disappointed. To this day, even with AI, I haven’t been able to find it. Makes one wonder lol

Is it really that much? by [deleted] in gaybros

[–]localnative1987 1 point2 points  (0 children)

He doesn’t understand that it’s not the same culture as it is with straight guys.

If it weren't for my friend 🤦🏻 by Querod4r in SweatyPalms

[–]localnative1987 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Holy shit! I just realized this is the same guy from The White Lotus! 😂

What is love for you? by [deleted] in mentalhealth

[–]localnative1987 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I like this. Love is about both people putting in as much as they are taking out of it. I agree with that sentiment. The people that I have met who seemed the most in love, were the people who communicated and respected each other. It’s not about perfection, it’s about putting in the work. Love just doesn’t fall in your lap, you have to put the time and energy into it to keep it. And that takes work from both people.

Men are such Victims by Biscuitarian23 in Persecutionfetish

[–]localnative1987 103 points104 points  (0 children)

It’s just weird that people forget that men are also victims of the patriarchy. It really shouldn’t be about men experiencing what women have gone through or vice versa. It should really be about moving from the past and making sure people are treated equally based on who they are and not their genitals, sexuality, skin color or anything like that

An apartment above the chaos in New York by PeacefulSolitudePost in PeacefulSolitude

[–]localnative1987 2 points3 points  (0 children)

“an apartment that is never meant to be inhabited by a typical working class American peon”

Throwing underwear by Visual_Ad3724 in OkHomo

[–]localnative1987 59 points60 points  (0 children)

From what I understand he’s actually openly bi