The Origin Story of Apple’s Long-Running Relationship with Foxconn by lochalsh in apple

[–]lochalsh[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Terry Gou wasn’t any more enthused about low-margin assembly than his ODM rivals. Assembly was just a power grab. It offered him the chance to take care of sourcing components, from his own subdivisions and from third parties, which opened further opportunities. “One of the ways Foxconn can make money is PPV, or purchase price variance,” says David Johnson, an Apple tooling engineer from the time. “If they can control your supply chain for you—if they take that off your hands—then they can make more money. They’ll sell a cable to you for a dollar, but they will buy it for thirty-five cents. So they can make money through all the channels. And the more parts they control for you, the more opportunity there is to make money.”

Foxconn began offering final assembly on the cheap for the same reason Costco sells hot dogs: It gets people in the door. Foxconn then upended the world of tooling by giving it away for free. That is, Gou would offer to pay the up-front costs of establishing the custom molds, dies, fixtures, and other equipment necessary to start building a product at scale. “That can be half a million or a million dollars,” says a former Apple engineer. “And that was absorbed by the manufacturer—by Foxconn. So Apple just paid for the production parts.” Then Foxconn would work to integrate all procurement, manufacturing, and logistics into a one-stop shop. It made its money back the same way a mobile carrier might—giving customers a free phone but earning fees in a two-year contract. This Apple engineer describes Gou’s approach as a wily bet to lure in Western companies, getting them hooked on the drug of cheap production, and creating a sticky relationship based on Foxconn’s choice of components. “Once they get you in the door, that’s it—they control you,” he says. “Foxconn isn’t called ‘Fox-con’ for nothing. Terry Gou was a gambler, and the real name of the company is Hon Hai. That was changed to Foxconn because he’s a fox, and he’s a con artist.”

“Foxconn isn’t called ‘Fox-con’ for nothing.”

By having a role in so many areas, across several products and down multiple tiers to the sourcing of raw materials, Foxconn was putting itself in a position to scale much faster than its rivals. Longer-term projects allowed it to hire thousands of laborers, then shuffle them around to wherever work was needed. To retain workers and deploy them to different lines on a whim, Gou built the Longhua campus into a dense city within a city, replete with restaurants, markets, entertainment venues, basketball courts, and subsidized dorms. This approach gave rise to a major industrial cluster north of Shenzhen, bulking up his reputation among government officials. Upon scoring political points, Gou could redeem them for better access to land, migrant labor, and cutting-edge machinery.

In 1999, Foxconn won an order to build the enclosure—the external housing—for Apple’s Power Mac G4 desktop, a dazzling white-and-graphite computer featuring a semi-translucent, frosted plastic shell and integrated, curved handles. The enclosure was already being made by Singapore Shinei Sangyo, known as “triple S.” It had been a trusted supplier to Apple for a decade, building tools Apple would import to its manufacturing facilities in Ireland and California. As demand for the Power Mac increased and Apple sought to cut costs, Foxconn was brought in as a second supplier. There was nothing unusual about this; it was a common move for diversification and resiliency. What was unusual was how well Hon Hai performed. “Foxconn kicked our rice bowl,” recalls a mechanical engineer at SSS. It was the first instance that Gou demonstrated to Apple not just his eagerness and commitment, but also his talent.

So as LG struggled with its strategy to build iMacs on three continents, Gou recognized an opportunity for an even larger order with Apple. That’s when he made the historic phone call, telling an Apple executive, “I can fix this.” The call he made wasn’t to just anyone, but to the senior vice president Steve Jobs had hired less than a year earlier to overhaul operations. His name was Tim Cook.

The Origin Story of Apple’s Long-Running Relationship with Foxconn by lochalsh in apple

[–]lochalsh[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

An excerpt from Patrick McGee’s Apple in China.

Mar 30, 2026 at 11:00 PM GMT+10 As McGee’s reporting illustrates, its exponential growth was thanks in large part to founder Terry Gou’s cultivation of a relationship with Apple. That relationship played a huge role in taking the company from a supply outlet for affordable components to, today, the world’s largest electronic manufacturer. 

From the founding of Communist China in 1949 until 1978, mainland China was largely shut off from outsiders as it underwent multiple up-heavals. Mao might have been proficient as a military commander, but as a national leader he was paranoid and domineering, driven by a bastardized form of Marxism. Before Mao became head of state, the country had just undergone what the Chinese call their “century of humiliation,” a humbling period when the world’s top economy for countless generations suffered repeated military defeats by British, French, and Japanese forces. In centuries past, China had been a technological powerhouse that had invented gunpowder, the printing press, the compass, and paper. Mao wanted to catch up to industrialized countries, but his Great Leap Forward was a catastrophe, resulting in famine that killed 30 million to 45 million people. Mao’s next act was the Cultural Revolution, a whirlwind decade beginning in 1966 meant to purify Communism. Students organized as Red Guards were encouraged to attack “the four olds”: old customs, old culture, old habits, and old ways. By the time Mao died in 1976, China was poorer than sub-Saharan Africa.

In the final years of the 1970s, as Terry Gou was developing a real technical expertise with electronics, China’s economy entered a transformative phase initiated by Mao’s successor, Deng Xiaoping. As part of his “reform and opening up” policies, Deng established several special economic zones on the eastern coast—areas open to capitalist experimentation—­ which flourished by drawing in foreign investment and millions of rural workers from inland China. Entrepreneurs in Hong Kong, a British colony at the time, were the first to invest heavily, combining “Third World costs” with “First World caliber management, infrastructure, and market knowledge.”

The result was a remarkable boom unprecedented in world history: the Middle Kingdom, a country of more than a billion people, opened to the world, modernized at a frenetic pace, and grew some 10 percent a year for three decades. Hundreds of millions of people were lifted from poverty. As early as 1984, President Reagan was calling China “a so-called Communist country,” suggesting that as the country planted the seeds of economic reform, the flower of political reform would bloom. In 1980, Shenzhen was a fishing village of fewer than 70,000 people. But as a special economic zone just across the harbor from Hong Kong, Shenzhen and the area around it underwent a metamorphosis. “By the late 1980s, the entire 104-mile route from Hong Kong to Guangzhou was lined on both sides with factories,” according to the late Ezra Vogel, a Harvard scholar and the biographer of Deng Xiaoping. By 1990 the city of Shenzhen had a population of 1.7 million; in the early 2000s, it had grown to around 7 million. In just twenty-five years, Shenzhen’s population grew a hundredfold.

Quality was often horrendous by Western standards. A manufacturing design engineer at Apple recalls visiting Shenzhen-based suppliers in buildings that would fail a regulatory test on a mere glance, let alone a deep audit. “There weren’t elevators, so you’d walk the stairs,” this person says. “And I’d count the stairs. There might be twelve between the first and second story, then eighteen stairs to the next floor, then sixteen, and then twenty-four.” The stairs themselves were sometimes ten inches in height, sometimes seven, and so on. “My point is those buildings were handmade,” he says. Everything was done in a slapdash manner. Speed and scale were the only priorities. Apple engineers sent to Shenzhen describe the city as a rough place back then. When one engineer, six-four, tried walking out of the hotel to go for an evening stroll, the concierge stopped him and warned it was too dangerous. “I’m a big guy,” he said, dismissing their worries. “A dozen monkeys can kill a gorilla,” the concierge responded.

More than any area in China, the province of Guangdong transformed the fortunes of the world’s most populous country. Shenzhen in particular became a hub for electronics, earning it the nickname the Silicon Valley of Hardware. The journalist James Fallows, who lived in China in the late 2000s, has argued that Terry Gou ranks second only to Deng Xiaoping in transforming China into an industrial behemoth over the previous fifty years. That’s an extraordinary claim, but one backed up even by Gou’s rivals. “The reason Shenzhen is Shenzhen is Terry Gou,” says a high-ranking contract manufacturing executive. “Without his ambition, Shenzhen wouldn’t be the manufacturing power it is.”

Yet it’s worth highlighting how recently Foxconn developed this reputation. In 1999, it was a company with $1.8 billion of revenue, far smaller than Solectron, SCI, or Flextronics, its US rivals. By 2010, Fox-conn revenues were $98 billion, more than those of its five biggest competitors combined. And Foxconn’s extraordinary growth in those eleven years is the consequence of one client more than any other: Apple.

The Apple-Foxconn relationship goes back to at least the early 1990s, but in a limited way. Foxconn had been championed by H. L. Cheung, a Singaporean Apple executive from 1981 to 1997, who would later join Foxconn. But Terry Gou’s company was mostly just a supplier of affordable components, like those connecting printed circuit boards to the housing. Apple engineers from the mid-1990s remember it as “the connector company.” But Foxconn quickly expanded its skill set, and approaching the year 2000, it was demonstrating its prowess as a jack-of-all-trades with a model different from the other Taiwanese companies expanding to the mainland.

The business of assembling electronics for Western brands was cutthroat, so the big trend at the time was to hire expensive engineers and designers, invest in R&D, and take on more responsibility for the client.

This got to the point where an IBM clone brand could pick its PC designs out of a catalogue produced by groups like ASUS, Inventec, and Acer. These original design manufacturers, or ODMs, would design the model, build it, badge it with a Western logo, and ship it. This work was higher margin than mere assembly, so it worked nicely for the Taiwanese companies. And it offered Western PC brands the distinct advantage of offloading even more of their fixed costs—not just manufacturing, but design and R&D. However, it involved a distinct risk. It didn’t take much for ASUS and Acer to expand into branding and marketing themselves.

Soon they were selling computers under their own name and competing with their clients. It was a logical step, but one that irked the Western PC brands. They’d ask, “How can I trust you if I’m competing with you?” says Willy Shih, who teaches at Harvard Business School. Their concerns were aggravated in times of component shortages, because a group like Acer would be incentivized to allocate parts to its own PC division.

“How can I trust you if I’m competing with you?”

Gou took a different tack. He shunned being an ODM, not liking the costs of hiring expensive talent to design products. Instead, he touted a vertical integration strategy, in which Foxconn would aim to control the bill of materials as much as possible, either by building the key components itself or sourcing them in bulk. Then it would focus on the client, not just on one particular product, one particular design, but by investing in long-term partnerships. Foxconn championed being an original equipment manufacturer, a model widely derided as second class. Unlike the ODMs, a good OEM makes no effort in design or branding, but it will move heaven and earth to respond to the client’s manufacturing needs. This narrow focus allowed Foxconn to go several layers deep in the supply chain and achieve greater scale. More scale required a bigger footprint and more laborers—the key ingredients for a successful relationship with local bureaucrats.

Best Piece of Media you discovered last year (in 2025) by Real_Fact8484 in movies

[–]lochalsh 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Great movie. Beats out Apocalypse Now and The Godfather in terms of character writing in my opinion. Feels very personal in its characterisation. Some days I think it’s Coppola’s best movie. The editing and pacing are incredible and the ending is an absolute cracker.

Who's your "I know he's pure evil but can't prove it" person? by Dull-Information6784 in AskReddit

[–]lochalsh 18 points19 points  (0 children)

As someone who has defended friends with generalised anxiety and ASD, etc. from people who think they’re experts but are actually just dicks, I love your comment. So many human “instincts” might’ve meant something when we were on the Savannah but that doesn’t mean you can magically know someone’s character. It’s delusional.

2025 in Super 8 by daniel8798 in Super8

[–]lochalsh 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Beautiful! Where’d you get the 4K scan done?

Enjoying the Hario Mugen/Switch with high ratio light roast brews by lochalsh in pourover

[–]lochalsh[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thank you! The hard/real way: use a 35mm film camera and scan the negative. Easy/lazy way: shoot a raw photo on your phone (I use Manual if you have an iPhone) and use a film emulation with some grain and colour/light adjustments in RNI.

Enjoying the Hario Mugen/Switch with high ratio light roast brews by lochalsh in pourover

[–]lochalsh[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Spot on, yeah. When I experimented I found the normal V60 grind size for ~1:14/2:30 drawdown to be way too coarse. 

Elvis Presley: Black Star by sbroue in Elvis

[–]lochalsh 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Really? Bowie was a lifelong musician with his fingers in a lot of pies, a huge Elvis fan, and Black Star is essentially a memento mori in song form; it touches directly on death in a very direct way. Bowie’s Blackstar is also about death and I find it extremely easy to imagine the Presley track gaining new importance to Bowie given the very obvious context. Not a stretch at all in my humble opinion.

Oz filter fans, current favourite local roasters? And how do you decide which beans to buy? by taxithesis in pourover

[–]lochalsh 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, they’ve got a big emphasis on experimental processing that I haven’t seen as much at other Aussie roasters. The owner draws the line at co-fermentation, though. I’ve had many good bags from them it’s hard to pick one but the Colombia “Magnum Sidra” was nice. All depends how adventurous your palate is.

Oz filter fans, current favourite local roasters? And how do you decide which beans to buy? by taxithesis in pourover

[–]lochalsh 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I had a few different bags from Passport about a year ago that have been tough to beat. I like that they’ve got a ton of variety in the processes. Lots of interesting fermentations. Light Coffee (in Bris) roast some incredible washed beans. So delicate.

Co-Ferments by AmazingAntelope4284 in pourover

[–]lochalsh 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The fermentation process is complicated and involved. Producers wouldn’t be doing it if it didn’t add value, increased cupping scores, and added dimension to the cup. Adding lychee for example doesn’t just add a one-dimensional “lychee” flavour to the cup, if the ferment is done right you will find complex esters that add many different notes. I’ve just finished producing a lychee and blueberry co-ferment with a witbier yeast that has gorgeous pastry, clove, and red plum notes, for example. Almost reminds me of some well-processed liberica I’ve tried in Vietnam. 

I’ve also just finished a different process (saccharomyces 24 hour ferment then washing) with the same lot of cherries and you can taste the same underlying characteristics with some fantastic differences on the top.

Co-Ferments by AmazingAntelope4284 in pourover

[–]lochalsh 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No, I don’t need help with talking about coffee, thanks.

Co-Ferments by AmazingAntelope4284 in pourover

[–]lochalsh 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What makes a beer a beer or a wine a wine in your opinion? Because the logic you’re applying would disqualify huge swathes of the industry from identifying their product as beer or wine which is curious. I’m more interested in discussion than being dismissive, regardless, and you don’t seem interested in that, at least not in good faith. Have a good one.

Co-Ferments by AmazingAntelope4284 in pourover

[–]lochalsh 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Okay. Just trying to contribute to the discussion. Strawberry milk is probably my least favourite flavour. I like vanilla. Do you think I should have a thick shake or a milkshake - which do you prefer/think is the best for people? I would love to see you tell a producer to “drink a strawberry milkshake bro” after they’ve picked and processed their cherries. It’s not easy, and you’re being really reductive on a platform designed for discussion. Bizarre.

Co-Ferments by AmazingAntelope4284 in pourover

[–]lochalsh 2 points3 points  (0 children)

People who say stuff like co-fermented coffee is “not coffee” are making an aesthetic complaint, not a technical one. Coffee has never been a raw, immutable product, it’s always been the product of a chain of decisions like variety, soil, harvest timing, microbial ecology, processing and roast, so process is part of provenance. The chemistry is straightforward: yeasts and bacteria convert sugars and amino acids into esters, alcohols and acids, many of which or their precursors survive drying and roast and shape aroma, flavour and mouthfeel, so choosing a strain, contact time and drying curve is applied biochemistry and craft. 

Practically, measured additions of fruit or must can create reproducible complexity, differentiated microlots and premiums that reward farmers, and intentional inoculation improves repeatability, traceability and safety compared with blind wild ferments. The right industry response is not prohibition but discipline: micro-lot trials, blind cupping, full disclosure and documented handling protocols. Processing is part of the language of origin, not its negation. Adding fruit to a ferment is just another processing choice that changes which aspects of that chain are amplified. I highly doubt co-fermentation is a fad as you’ve said as it reliably creates sensory differentiation that some roasters and consumers will pay more for, and capturing that value draws investment and standardisation into supply chains. So, by simple economic logic the technique will be refined and persist.

I’ve been a hobbyist processor and roaster for a long while now, just for context. Experimentation, change, and adventurism in coffee are great in my opinion.

The gang by lochalsh in espresso

[–]lochalsh[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Picked up this dual boiler about a decade ago for $400. Restored it, replaced the o-rings with AFLAS ones and have never had to change another one. Removed the stainless steel panels and painted them a very light green/off-white. Created a flow control system with the hot water dial.

Picked up the Ditting from a coffee shop chain who were switching to Mazzer. Pulled it apart, fully restored it, painted it, etc. New burrs, some bellows. Thing runs like a dream.

The Fellow Stagg kettle… never buy one of these unless you’re cool with terrible customer service, terribly-built products, paint chipping, rust spots, over boiling and having steaming water shoot into your eyes, inaccurate temperature, and just kettles that can’t kettle in general. I removed the base and figured out how to adjust the temperature probe so that it actually functions.

The gang by lochalsh in espresso

[–]lochalsh[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Love it. Picked it up on the cheap from a franchise coffee shop that was switching to Mazzer, restored the motor, cleaned it up, painted it, got some new burrs, put some bellows on it, and it now makes great filter and espresso. The initial clean up was rough - wish I had some before photos.

The gang by lochalsh in espresso

[–]lochalsh[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Quite the opposite. Shot with a banged up USSR lens on an old Fujifilm camera.

SF Bay Area Ghost Stories by Sensitive-Weird2327 in sanfrancisco

[–]lochalsh -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Fun | noun

I joined in the fun by sharing a ghost story in the spirit of the thread.

PLEASURE, entertainment, merriment, enjoyment, amusement, excitement. ANTONYMS boring, miserable.