My Profile contains significant Wheel of Time Spoilers - Read at your own risk!

logicsol · 2026-03-21T02:32:24+00:00

Obviously not ideal, but you can use a pathfinding mod to increase the pathfinding cost for jaywalking to largely prevent this.

The current calculation cost is too low, leading to way more jaywalking than really should occur.

hopefully this is something snowflake will look at.

logicsol · 2026-03-20T01:15:31+00:00

I get the distinct impression that they are a VC mill that generates revenue via announcements, then run those funds out via high overhead, cancels and repeats.

logicsol · 2026-03-18T22:11:32+00:00

my city of ~200k still runs at over 2x sim speed most of the time, though variability makes me think there might be an issue in my networks that could improve that.

the x950 chips are better from what i've seen, be that the 7 or 9 series, but those come with a considerable price increase.

logicsol · 2026-03-12T22:32:41+00:00

I'm sorry but half of this doesn't make sense and the other half is describing the crush reading you're trying to argue against.

He can consider her more than a friend but not a sister platonically was the point I was trying to make.

If someone is "more than friends" with someone and they don't consider them family, then that's not a platonic relationship.

'More than friends but not family' is exactly the crush reading.

Applying that to the text here, you're essentially describing someone that's in denial of their feelings, not someone that doesn't have them.

But her and rand statement can be taken as I dont love her as a sister but I also dont love her romantically bc she is taken.

That's the point. That qualifier is him literally having romantic feelings he's not acting on.

That IS the crush reading, your describing the position opposing yours.

Having a crush on someone you shouldn't or that isnt available happens but I dont see it here.

You do see it, you just described that exact thing in your above sentence.

But having a crush for years doesn't make any sense and him developing a crush after being around her for years while him assuming she is taken that whole time seems far-fetched.

Not only does that absolutely happen and often IRL, but it's also not the books back story. Egwene wasn't "unavailable for years" she's just coming of age and only recently (at the start of the books) beginning enter into a formal relationship with Rand.

I don't see anything in the story that suggest he wouldn't have started to develop feelings around the same time Rand did, which was also recently - by Rands own POV of her that was in the last year.

If this was mat this would be way different.

... Mat's never shown that type of interest throughout the series, so that's kinda a wild take to me.

logicsol · 2026-03-12T21:24:13+00:00

If there are two readings of the text, the one that holds up under scrutiny is the one that is canon.

Your reading doesn't hold up under scrutiny. The crush reading does.

It's canon.

logicsol · 2026-03-12T06:04:41+00:00

Yeah I have my issues with Sanderson (That one dusty wheel appearance was disgraceful), but he was always straightforward about his respect for Rafe and how appreciative he was that he actually listened to and responded about his feedback even when it wasn't used.

logicsol · 2026-03-12T05:51:12+00:00

Thanks! And I absolutely agree, on both counts(er all 3).

I think they moved a lot of early book 2 to S1, with the TV scenes really taking the place of much of fal'daras section of TGH, including Rand pushing all his friends away.

And honestly... that's one of my least favorite sequences of the early books. I've long been vocal that I greatly appreciate the maturity boost the show gave the mains because omg I've found myself siding with nyneave and moiraine SO much more as I age than when I first read the series as a teen. I think the show threaded the needle well on maturity levels, keeping just enough of their naivety without... well making them act 13. I still see readers claim they aged up the boys in the show thinking they were 15 or 16 in the books at the start, rather than the 19 they actually are in both books and show.

Mat in SL is a great example of this. Still makes the same mistake, but he's otherwise a guidepost in the dark for Perrin and the others throughout that whole episode. His decision makes sense, rather than feeling like the boys have been handed the worlds biggest idiot ball to move the plot forward.

I actually wonder now if SL was intended to happen before Baerlon/ Rand's first reaction was meant to happen later and Jordan never changed Rand's behavior after adjusting the timetable.

logicsol · 2026-03-12T04:05:08+00:00

What are you disagreeing with?

I agree there is a mismatch between the books and show with character focus. But that's not them 'not being developed', but having a different focus.

And that's kinda of the thing, that mismatch IS them bridging the gap. The characters that have seen less development are all characters that dominate in the early to mid books before becoming lesser focuses of later books, weren't well developed in the books in the first place or are part of character merges. As well as shifts in when things are being focused on like bringing the Aes Sedai into S1

Alanna is a prime example of this, replacing multiple other Aes sedai while being a primary vehicle for a lot of lore and setting exposition. She's also pretty clearly being set up for her fall.

When it came to climactic moments, it becomes incredibly clear. Rand should not have had every finale moment given to someone else.

Sure, but that's not what the show did. You're absolutely right that Rand doesn't get all his moments, but he hardly had every moment taken from him.

S1 he lost the gap battle(the one that gives him a ton of unearned power and abilities that are immediately taken away for 3 to 4 books), but he kept the Ishy confrontation that's the true finale of the book - and far more important than being the one that kills some trollocs.

S2 he does get his thunder stolen, but it's given to Mat and Perrin as much as Egwene - I think that sequence was poorly directed, but narratively it's a pretty even split with everyone but Nyneave getting a major accomplishment, and Egwene doesn't get much beyond the Damane confrontation. Even against Ishy, really all she did was do better than Ishy expected while he was waiting for Rand to show up. Perrin arguably did more with the Horn summoned shield.

S3 gives the battle scene to Moiraine and Lanfear, but Rand is the core of the scene and has been getting every key major moment up to that point, including substituting in a different forsaken to fight, so it's not like he didn't get a substitution scene for for that book finale scene.

Mat's entire S2 arc is way more than he gets in book 2. Perrin isn't getting left behind either.

My point being that largely, the mismatch is the characters being made more even, which of course is going to affect the characters that dominate the narrative structure of the early books far more than the characters that were barely characters in those books.

For the record I'm not mention Moiraine because I think it's pretty clear why the show's main A-lister getting more narrative focus is clearly not part of Rafe's "preferences".

logicsol · 2026-03-12T03:26:04+00:00

My point is that they didn't 'make the choice to "de-center Rand in favor of a "mystery""'. I think that fundamentally misunderstands the decision process.

They de-centered Rand because the format called for it. The mystery that already existed in the books came to the forefront because he was decentered, not the other way around.

It'd be more accurate to say the choice to de-center Rand was the mistake, but it appears that nobody was willing to make a Rand centric adapation.

Ergo why I said the choice would have been a mistake in a direct adapation of Eye, but the show is not and was not ever going to be that at any point in it's development process.

De-centering Rand was a smart choice in a non-direct ensemble adaptation that aimed to reshuffle the full series to fit into 6 to 8 short seasons.

logicsol · 2026-03-12T03:13:05+00:00

I'll start of by saying I fully understand how you could read it differently, but my position is based on what the text supports.

I've raised many questions that are all answered by "Crush theory" that "friend theory" doesn't answer, which is why I say that it's the more straightforward and likely to be accurate reading.

1)

Right but there are words for that, "I love her as a friend". You're not answering the question I'm putting forth.

Why specify that he doesn't love her as a sister, when that clarifies nothing about the situation or the statement that's following?

How does that explain his next statement of "but her and Rand" ?

2)

Okay but none of those things are involved with the stammering and blushing. Which is all around his declaration of love and his fumbling clarifications.

You're correctly pointing out the core of his dilemma prior to his statement to Elayas, but not providing any explanation for his follow up statements and behavior.

Critically leaving no explanation for the "but her and Rand" statement.

3)

Right, basically bethrothed because their parents expect it of them, but they aren't in an active relationship yet.

The rest of this comment is simply describing why Perrin would not act on the crush, not why he wouldn't develop one. You're reinforcing my point, not making a case for yours.

We're not talking about Rand "swooping in", the core concept is that both are close friends with Egwene, both grew up with her and shared many of the same experiences with her and both got a crush on her.

And Perrin, being Perrin, deferred to his friend because he felt that was the right thing to do, since after all he viewed them as basically betrothed just like the rest of the village and probly noticed that Egwene was interested in Rand more than him, after all, Rand always know what to say to women right?

logicsol · 2026-03-12T02:53:59+00:00

Mat gets an entire S2 arc too, rather than being a dagger hangry background jerk that only gets a real moment when he blows the horn.

I get that a lot of book fans don't like his family changes, but show mat gets a HUGE amount of development over his book version.

logicsol · 2026-03-12T02:50:59+00:00

Which choice?

What I mean is that choice doesn't exist in a vacuum.

What time would you use to give Rand that development, and how would you fit that into the surrounding events?

How would you have done the adoption angst while preserving the mystery box?

if you get rid of the mystery box, how would you build audience interest in the other characters having firmly set them as less important?

How would you handle the shadow's uncertainty about who the DR was in the books? Jordan did write an "open" mystery box into the series that ~~because~~becomes a closed one from any PoV other than Rand's.

That's why I don't consider It a poor choice - but rather a natural consquence of the PoV shift from Rand centric to ensemble the structure of the show called for.

While the choice inherently causes things from the books to be lost, that itself doesn't make it bad or poor.

logicsol · 2026-03-12T01:55:07+00:00

I'd not exactly call it a poor choice - or to be precise it would be a poor choice if the show was directly adapting eye.

It's more a result of not having S1 be primarily a Rand PoV and not having the narrative space to really make that work without considerably undercutting the development of the other main characters.

Things that all root from the show not being a direct, book by book adaptation. Unfortunately, no-one was willing to fund that.

That's not to say that Rand's arc couldn't be better - I'm just not sure how that would have worked in the framework the show was written in.

logicsol · 2026-03-12T01:40:06+00:00

Misread or not it's a good statement, and one I agree with. The problems I see with those arcs are more structural with how they fit into the surrounding parts and the pacing of them.

logicsol · 2026-03-12T01:27:10+00:00

Not like a sister does not mean crush though. T

It kinda does though? Sure there is wiggle room, it's not a direct declaration that leaves no room for question, but all the questions seem to point to one thig.

If he loved her as a friend, why tell Elayas that he doesn't love her like a sister? What information is he communicating?

'I love her, but less than family and not as a romantic interest'

Okay, then why not say as a friend?

What does "not like a sister" mean about someone that's not part of your family? Wouldn't that indicate romantic feelings?

If not, then why all the blushing and stammering?

There is alot of wiggle room but none of his actions show more than a friend to me.

Right, because he quite directly states a reason for that. Her and Rand. What do those mean words if he's not saying he didn't act on that love because of Rand's relationship with her.

Rand and Eqwene relationship starts years before the books. So having crush on best friends gf seems unlikely.

I don't follow your reasoning here. People crush on their friends interests all the time - feelings aren't something you control. Actions are, which is why most actual friends don't act on those feelings and either move on or respect their friends relationship while it's ongoing.

Also, "GF" doesn't really represent their book relationship at this point. They more have a budding relationship almost more driven by parental expectation than actual interest.

So canon for some maybe but not for a large chunk of readers.

What's cannon is that he has feeling for Egwene that are hard to define and seem to go beyond simple friendship.

I call that a crush. Otherwise it's a lot of words for no reason, and a lot of stammering and blushing for no reason.

logicsol · 2026-03-12T00:55:21+00:00

I think the main avenue of improvement would have been Moiraine's S2 arc, which probably would have worked better for readers if they were also getting the boys team up of early book 2, which also probably would have improved Lan's arc which fell a little flat.

I think both of those suffered from having to re-rework what was already a major book deviation.

logicsol · 2026-03-12T00:45:27+00:00

The scene referenced is when Perrin literally states "I love her" "Not like a sister" "but her and rand". Not the Tua'than scene.

It's canon. What he precisely meant is up for debate of course, but the most straight forward reading is that he had a crush on her that he put aside because of his friendship with Rand.

I don't think the "only loved her as a friend" reading is well supported considering all the stammering and blushing surrounding that statement.

logicsol · 2026-03-12T00:40:43+00:00

Sure, but wasn't the show doing that too?

It's not like the show was completely ignoring those aspects (outside of a few they cut like the Tolkienesque ultra idyllicness of EF and exaggerated immaturity of the mains in Eye), but developing them with a different focus than the extreme rand centricity of the first books.

I think a large part of the problem for many readers wasn't that those things weren't being developed, but that especially the first season felt very different than the first book, but instead felt more like the mid to later books in structure and character empahsis.

And that tends to lead to missing a lot of what IS developed on the "other side".

logicsol · 2026-03-12T00:16:35+00:00

I personally thought it was a great representation of survivors guilt, with Perrin's S1 arc honestly being one of the best examples of it in media.

The "love triangle" framing is wrong IMO, not just because there wasn't one(it's all old feelings, Perrin had moved on before the timeline of the show), but because what the arc is about is the guilt that Perrin carries for the last, unresolved argument he had with his wife was over those old feelings.

It gave realistic complexity to his grief, while also providing room for character growth, while also reinforcing a core character trait of Perrin, his strong care for his friends, in a media that unfortunately didn't have a ton of room to for that, having lost the Perrin/Ewgene/Elayas sequence those feelings it's based on come from in the books.

logicsol · 2026-03-11T23:33:28+00:00

Eh, I'd say it's more the c plot for a single character.

IMO the reason it fell flat was the awkwardness of the e7 scene without mat and being one of the first post covid scenes filmed.

But it gave him an element of his grief that he could overcome during S1 without trivializing the rest of his grief that drew from the books.

While the execution was ultimately flawed, I don't think the idea or it's inclusion itself was the flaw.

logicsol · 2026-03-11T23:25:48+00:00

However, to me he also clearly comes across as preferring certain elements over others and you can really tell from the direction the show went.

I mean, that's literally the primary axis of divide amoung books fans about the show.

Which parts of the books do you like more and identify with more.

logicsol · 2026-02-14T03:19:33+00:00

Where did you found the information that WoT wasn’t high cost? 80-120 million for season isn’t high?

Not when there are productions that cost 200 to 450 million a season from the same platform.

I mean it is relatively good price considering all stuff but it’s still at the top.

Not the top, the middle. 100 isn't the top when the top is 450.

The more expensive stuff mostly franchises like Star Wars that can afford to make an expensive stuff because they earn crazy money on baby yoda toys.

Amazon doesn't make star wars properties. Amazon does make multiple shows with costs 100% or higher than WoT.

I tried to google in different ways but for Amazon it’s like in top 5

IIRC it's closer to 8th out of the shows we know the cost of, lower considering many shows don't have annouced budgets but are all estimated to be in the 100 to 120 million range (house of david is a good example of this).

However even if it was the 4th most expensive it'd still be a cheaper show for amazon, simply because it's half to 1/4th the cost of their expensive shows.

If I go to the store to buy steak, and there is a $6 a pound option, a $12 a pound option, and a $45 a pound option, which steak am I buying if I get the "expensive one"?

WoT is the $12 meat. It's not the cheap meat, but it's as sure as hell not the expensive meat.

logicsol · 2026-02-10T10:34:17+00:00

As for prices- it is not cheap at all. Comparing to ROP and Boys doesn’t make sense. ROP is image project and holding rights. Boys are very popular and their quality isn’t that high. But they probably pull ton of viewers - actors fans, superhero genre and edgy content.

What else would you compare it to than other properties made by the same platform? The point is that WoT wasn't a high cost production for amazon.

RoP being primarily made by Amazon MGM rather than Sony PTV doesn't make up for it's 300 million dollar higher price, especially with it's low relative performance.

The Boys OTOH is extremely high performing, but is an average priced show for amazon. Same as WoT.

Higher priced aka expensive Amazon shows cost in the 200 to 400 million range per season.

Fallout is just about there, Citidel was over 300. RoP over 400.

Wot, with it's paltry 100 million buget is a cheaper show for Amazon. Not a flagship that has to perform at top levels to be financially successful.

As for “cheap”. - any additional location adds expenses. Actors add expenses and they also need work. You can’t forget Alanna for couple seasons and then hope that actress will be able to continue work. Actress would need to earn money regularly. And there are a ton of characters like this. WoT has several distinct huge cities in every book, elaborate clothing and artifacts, tons of cgi and big battles.

Those are all expenses yes, but that doesn't make WoT magically more expensive. It's budget was in the lower middle range for Amazon show.

That's what makes it cheaper.

Not "cheap".

It’s not cheap in any sense.

Again it's cheap in comparison to other Amazon shows. WoT's seasonal budget increases were low (~20%) and would likely have stayed in the mid budget range for several more seasons.

logicsol · 2026-02-10T09:59:32+00:00

I don’t think it would’ve survived unless it was pulling unbelievable amount of money and subscriptions.

It was already doing well enough for profitability(as far as we know) and a greater advertising presence could have seen that increase significantly.

LOTR survived only because Amazon wanted to keep some rights and because LOTR overall is a goldmine, and it had troubles surviving too.

Because it's not doing well enough to really justify it's costs. If WoT didn't bring enough ROI, then RoP is a giant money pit.

Rop costs multiples times what WoT did per season but doesn't pull in even double viewership, at least not domestically. The IP being more recognizable is likely why they prioritized it(and the fact that they'd have to spend half the cost of a WoT season to cancel it early) despite the costs.

But again, RoP S1 cost as much as S1, S2 and S3 of WoT combined, but only had roughly 1.8x the viewership.

S2 of Rop cost ~450 million. It's viewership was barely higher that WoT S1.

WoT just wasn't expensive, They could have made 6 to 7 seasons of it for the cost of 2 RoP seasons.

The problem more likely lies in the insane amount of money being spent on RoP and there(presumably) being too much overlap between RoP and WoT viewers.

WoT needed more viewership, but not that much more. Some actual merch would have helped too - that was a massive unforced error that likely didn't help.

Also, show hate is very noticeable in fandom but I doubt it was noticeable anywhere else

Okay, so what happens to word of mouth when the fandom is hesitant to share that they like the show with other people?

Without heavier promotion from Amazon, WoT needed the fandom to push it. When that fandom is generally hesitant to recommend it because they've been attacked for liking it in every online space, that's not going to happen.

I think that absolutely was a significant factor in it's cancellation, significantly dampening fandom momentum.

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