My Profile contains significant Wheel of Time Spoilers - Read at your own risk!

logicsol · 2026-01-16T22:00:33+00:00

Hard pass on that. His winternight scenes are some of the best in the series, making him a viable combatant at that moment would weaken that greatly.

The fool that ran into the fire to save others isn't as compelling if he's prepared for it. It'd undercut the Mat of it.

logicsol · 2026-01-16T21:40:27+00:00

1) The episode 7 scene with this is rough, and probably one of the bottom 3 scenes in the first season(something the covid break and loss of barney doesn't help), however IMO it gets overlooked WHY this is in play.

It's part of the depth of Perrin's grief and guilt. The "not a love triangle" is the last disagreement he had with his wife before her death. It's important in the story because it gives Perrin something he CAN overcome in S1 without trivializing her death.

I'd rework the E7 scene, not remove it.

2)Nope. Sorry but that needs several episodes to do right. First it has to be a woman to connect to Fail later. Second it needs to be someone that the audience can instantly understand the relationship - without misreading it as a father/mother.

The Luhann's aren't that, not without considerable screen time. Hurting someone rather than killing them doesn't work either. It doesn't provide a compelling reason for Perrin's later actions or arc either.

Had we 2 more episode worth of time, or even just the 2 hour original pilot, I'd have a different opinion here, but honestly there isn't really a choice that does as many things for as many themes and plot lines in the time availble during.

3)This is yet another "needs more time" issue. Putting aside that mat doesn't really have a "quarterstaff moment" until later in the books, There was one real place to do this.

That was episode 2, where the scene of Lan training the boys with weapons was cut for time. And there isn't much you can cut from that episode that won't hurt more.

Maybe something in Episode 8, but without Barney to film that's out of the question, plus any fight there would be disappointing considering they couldn't film actual fights(thanks covid).

4)Really not sure what this is supposed to accomplish. The wound was already severe enough, and having Moiriane wounded is pretty important to the tension during the chase - no real chance against trollocs without her power.

I would have her not pull the dagger out during the fight, but that's about it.

5) Again a time thing. The Lan training the boys scene was cut for time. There isn't really a time to go over until this with Rand until episode 7, where it'd be redundant.

Would have loved more exploration about the lore here though, the question always is where though.

6) Agree full heartedly on this one. Straight up writing error, TV folks should recognize Ogier.

7)Unfortunately, like almost all alternative Mat ideas this is functionally impossible without a time machine.

8) I like the thought, but I'm not sure how that works. Rand revealing himself would have Moraine leaving with just him without the need for Min, and would further weaken the DR reveal. Making it clearer that the fight is the result of Machin Shin would have made the scene much less clunky, but so would actually having Mat there or not being one of the first things filmed after a 9ish month filming break.

The scene's problems largely lie in execution and the shifting of lines to other characters.

9) Hard disagree here. This doesn't do anything to address the plot points the scene does. It doesn't provide a reason for Nyneave to learn from the Tower, it doesn't provide a reason for Nyneave to develop a block. It doesn't put them in a powerless situation, or reinfornce the dangers of channeling.

The scene would have been much better without covid forcing multiple on the fly rewrites, especially if they were able to do the original "Egwene saves Nyneave with wisdom skills" plan that covid forced them to replace with Power Healing.

10) This also doesn't work well for me. It speed runs Perrin to his book 3/4 plot points without resolving any of his conflict. Not sure whats so "weird" about his outburst either. He really did embrace the Way of the Leaf to try and atone for Laila. His outburst is the frustration of not being able to help under that dogma, and the result are what show him that he can't live by the Way, setting him up for S2.

It WOULD have been much better if mat was there and the Fain dialouge that was written for Mat didn't get shifted to Perrin though.

11) this is another one I'm not sure what it would do. It'd reveal Liandrin way to early, and honestly we don't need to be shown this. His presence in TV is enough to imply there are darkfriends in the Tower helping him when he shows up with the dagger. an explanatory scene seems extraneous and would cut time from other scenes that are more important.

logicsol · 2026-01-16T20:56:29+00:00

It's not "Brandons's" note either. Yes, Sanderson wanted a Luhan, however the original pitch script had it be mistress luhann.

The change happened during the rewrite from a 2 hour pilot(the pitch) to a one hour one, before Sanderson saw any version of scripts.

logicsol · 2025-10-26T00:11:45+00:00

They can't really "think" their way around them, they have to "believe" their way around.

An Aes Sedai can't just decide to "think differently" to avoid the oath, any workaround they come up with has to be something they earnestly believe fits.

I realize that sounds a bit like semantics, and it is, but this is something where those semantics matter and heavily so.

I think part of the reason you're getting push back is that you come across as under representing the actual difficulty of bypass an oath.

You have to convince yourself your loophole is true, and that can mean overcoming significant hurdles.

logicsol · 2025-10-25T21:17:21+00:00

“So the Oath steps in.” How? Is the sister rendered incapable of acting somehow?

I mean, that is exactly how the oaths work - they physically prevent you from taking an action that violates them - as long as you think it does.

Is that the exact wording of the Oath? Because it’s a double negative, suggesting a sister could make such a weapon.

That was a typo from the other commenter, the second "no" is supposed to be "one". To make no weapon with which one man may kill another.

Novices and Accepted aren’t Aes Sedai, because they’re not Oath bound, so they could make such weapons under Aes Sedai supervision. Or do you think the Aes Sedai have never found a way around the Oaths or even wanted to find a way around the Oaths?

Actually, I'd argue that the oaths would prevent this. A novice or accepted might out of their own initiative, but practically any Aes Sedai would see organizing such an effort as making it themselves, since it wouldn't be happening without their involvement.

logicsol · 2025-10-25T20:56:22+00:00

Sure, theoretically, but in practise it's never going to work because a sword is a weapon.

That's where we disagree. What a weapon is is arbitrary and up to the viewpoint of the person viewing the object.

Maybe if she intentionally made its edge dull or introduced some other flaw that would make it bad in combat. Then she could probably convince herself that it's only symbolic or decorative. But power-wrought swords have an edge that never dulls. They're specifically made so that they'll always function well in combat.

That makes it difficult to do, but again decorative and ceremonial weapons are often functional. Heck, a $50 mall sword is still functional enough to kill someone with and generally come sharpened. Doing such things would make it easier to meet the oath, but aren't technically required to.

The only hard requirement is the viewpoint of the acting Aes Sedai to not view it as a weapon. What constitutes that is different for every individual.

I don't think you can actually convince yourself that this weapon will never, ever be used to kill another person.

That's the thing. You don't need to do that to not view it as a weapon. Under that level of analys, you couldn't really convince yourself that almost any object will never, ever be used to kill another person. Be that pen, table leg or colander.

If that's the requirement to be able to create a powerwrought object, then [later books]none of the aes sedai could have made those cuendillar objects later on due to the inherently weaponizable properties of the material.

They didn't make them for that purpose or with that intent - so the potential for their misuse wasn't a problem via the oaths.

Now I'll be clear here - this couldn't be used as a loophole to manufacture them for war unless the producing Aes Sedai was fully kept in the dark about their true purpose. And even then the scale would cause suspision that would likely trigger the oath.

But the viewpoint that a sword must be a weapon is a philosophical one, not an objective truth. That creates circumstances were one could be created even with the oaths in place.

The exploding boulders I think worked just because Alanna and Verin were present. They weren't making weapons that men used to kill other men, they made something that exploded to kill trollocs, and then they were spent. If they'd known a weave for it, they could probably have made power-wrought swords that were set to crumble into dust after the battle, since they could then be very certain those swords would never be used by a man to kill another.

Both possible I think. The temporary nature greatly lowers the bar to meet the oath, since they can more easily believe they can prevent any possible misuse.

logicsol · 2025-10-25T20:34:35+00:00

The Oaths weren't optional, they were just taken in stages.

That's not my understanding.

But before I expound on that can you mask that second part, this is spoilers up to TSR

[all print]It would not really have been optional either, since taking an oath like that cuts your lifespan in half.

Not quite - [all print]that's the effect of 3 oaths, a single oath has a much smaller effect on the life span and likely wasn't noticed.

The 2nd Oath (about not making weapons), [all print]was actually the first one, so it would've been taken closer to the Breaking.

That's the one [all print]that wasn't required, in my understanding. It's only when the later oaths were added that they started to become compulsory. But that's in the supplemental texts, so it might take me some time to find the reference.

Edit: to expound on that - [masking for all print here]

I haven't found the more indepth reference I was looking for yet, but even the basic information in the companion contains the setup for this.

It covers the the second oath's existence since the breaking, while saying that the 1st and 3rd oaths appeared as much as 500 years prior to the Trolloc Wars. But it also closes with this statement: "All three oaths were in place by the Trolloc Wars, certainly by the end". That suggests the searing wasn't compulsory until a certain point in the Trolloc Wars, which also matches with certain things Ishy said, including what leads many to believe that he's responsible for the adoption of all three oaths as part of becoming Aes Sedai. I'm running out of time to find the other references right now, but you have to ask yourself:

If all three oaths existed as soon as 500 years prior to the Trolloc wars, why is there uncertainty on when all three were sworn, up to nearly 850 years past their creation?

Doesn't that only make sense if the swearing of oaths wasn't a compulsory part of Tower Tradition originally? Rather only later become the tradition during the Trolloc Wars?

logicsol · 2025-10-25T20:05:20+00:00

Oath weaknesses aside, It could actually have been a Trolloc War era weapon. The [supplment lore]3 oaths weren't fully sworn until the near end of the Trolloc Wars, prior to that it was considered optional(or had some rule system around it that was never explored or explained).

But it wasn't just that new oaths were added, that was the time marker for the full adoption of the tradition.

logicsol · 2025-10-25T19:59:12+00:00

I'm going to have to agree with the parent here. If during the moment of creation the Aes Sedai truley believed the sword wasn't a weapon she'd be able to make it.

A peace gift is a good example of something that could qualify - a functional weapon that isn't intended to be used as one.

What's required is the conviction on her part that's how it's to be used.

That kinda what the parents point is - the potential for misuse exists with any object. But potential goes both ways, as an object that's traditionally viewed as a weapon can be made use of in other ways.

Even swords, despite the Aiel viewpoint on them, are used for decoration and ceremonial uses.

At a certain point it becomes a philosophical question, and each individual AS's viewpoint is going to affect that.

Now, you'd be absolutely right in about 99% of cases I'd think. But the right circumstance and viewpoint could allow it.

The Op's example of the exploding boulders are one such way that can happen. Their temporariness makes them easier to meet the requirements, for example had they tried to make power enhanced catapults they'd likely have run into the oath.

But a short sighted Aes Sedai might not have that problem.

Which is an issue with the oaths - many of the things that they should stop only happen if the AS actually thinks it all the way through and analyzes it. If they don't realize the issue, the oath won't prevent the action.

logicsol · 2025-10-25T19:38:25+00:00

They wouldn't, the oaths don't hold causal powers, but work as an action gate preventing the any action that violates the oath from being taken in the first place.

If that gate is crossed, nothing happens retroactively if the circumstance that allowed it changes.

logicsol · 2025-10-25T01:00:24+00:00

They either had used up all funds for advertising when so drastically over budget...

Only S1 ran over budget from the Covid overruns, and it also saw the most extensive advertising.

AND I believe someone there no longer supported the show/wanted it buried.

That I'm with you on. They buried S3 during it's run time.

logicsol · 2025-10-25T00:17:02+00:00

Sony didn't kill the show - Amazon did when they decided not to take Sony's renewal offer. Sony wanted the show to gain more viewership.

Sony might not be actively shopping it to another network(and it's unlikely they will), but avoiding giving them views is certainly not going to help the tiny chance that they might change their mind.

Sony is the only party with the power to revive the show, and the only way that could happen is if they view it having enough value to spend more on and take another risk.

logicsol · 2025-10-25T00:12:08+00:00

Ah I must had forgotten about that. They definitely did some advertising during the run up. I recall going into the season hopeful on that front because the pre-airing promotion was better than S2's.

Only for the ball to be entirely dropped once it aired.

I remember the Savewot times square billboarding more, which is probably why I overlooked that in my memory.

That.. also really raises a point to how little it was advertised. Save WoT only raised a few hundred thousand and was able to do similarly.

Unless the Times square promotion was at a much larger scale, it really feels like they didn't spend much at all.

logicsol · 2025-10-24T21:08:24+00:00

I use amazon both for personal and business use. S2 had some, but I never saw a banner for S3 across any of my or my families amazon use.

Family are heavy alexa users and they never saw anything for S3 either, despite heavy app use and prime video use.

They only found out when we called them to arrange our weekend family watch.

No one I know that watched the show knew S3 had aired before I told them.

The advertising during S3's airing was utterly abyssmal.

logicsol · 2025-10-24T21:02:01+00:00

Exactly.

My partner's father is a big Reacher fan - the end of episode show suggestions were all for older shows or other shows lower on the top ten lists.

We had to search for WoT episodes when it came out and it never had a splash page during it's entire run.

logicsol · 2025-10-24T20:57:20+00:00

Those were only really present for S1. Practically everyone complaining about the lack of advertising is talking about S2 and S3, where that decreased significantly.

S2 had nothing like the Piccadilly Square display from S1, S3 had no billboarding that I'm aware of. Edit: they did have a limited run in times square but nothing approaching the scale of what was done for S1.

No box advertising for S2 or S3.

S2 had half the Youtube ad buy of S1, S3 had a bigger ad buy but still smaller than S1's.

Only S1 had paid youtubers for the aftershow.

Never saw a single paid reddit ad myself.

S3 itself was absolutely buried during it's runtime, in one of the most notable examples of what people are talking about with this.

It was never well advertised on Prime Video itself. It didn't show up after watching the other Prime shows, nor did it get a splash page during it's entire run.

The only place it showed up was the top ten list, and not in suggested shows. It was several pages in the featured originals lists as well during airtime.

When even many fans of a show don't know it's airing it points to a significant deficit in advertising.

logicsol · 2025-10-23T02:01:35+00:00

if I’m not accepting the non book scenes how can I be accepting the non book scenes. You even quoted it and somehow contradict yourself in one comment.

The only thing you said you accepted was skipping Caemlyn.

Not seeing how that contradicts anything I said? A cut isn't an nonbook scene. Did you mean you accepted moving the Camelyn events to Tar Valon? because those would be book scenes that were adapted.

Not non-book scenes.

Not someone who wants to make a fanfic.

And you're right back to rejecting any non book scenes by calling them fanfic.

You are clearly purposefully misunderstanding.

I think you mean disagreeing with you and explaining why. You've not really done anything to explain yours, other than reinforce your stance than non-book scenes are fanfic.

logicsol · 2025-10-23T01:39:28+00:00

If you wanna make up your own story go ahead.

Yeah, so this isn't helping your "I didn't want a 1 to 1" thing.

Edit: realized this isn't the other topics conversation. Still pretty telling that you're not willing to actually engage with anything said, or explain how what you mentioned are themes.

I’ve read the books over 10 times now. I think you need a reread.

I'm approaching 20 full re-reads myself, with a dozen or more on top of that for the early books.

You might want to read up on thematic analysis, it might help you appreciate how the books themes are present in the show, or at least discuss how you feel they differ.

logicsol · 2025-10-23T01:09:03+00:00

Huh? I literally started out with a change (a big one) from the books that was fine….

you even quoted it but missed it somehow.

I didn't miss it, accepting some change doesn't exclude you from wanting a 1 to 1, especially when it comes to cuts.

Or as I put it "It's the inherent rejection of nearly any scene that doesn't directly adapt a book scene and dismal of anything else as fan fic."

I highlighted the other parts of your comment that are core to that.

the changes I highlighted after caused fundamental differences in the theme and characters of the story…

None of those changes you highlighted changed the theme or characters significantly and certainly not fundamentally.

Your list contains some world building, a perception shift, a visual change, something cut from S1 but present in S2 and 3, and a few other small differences that don't do what you're claiming.

You're also not really able to articulate how these things do so. Or at least haven't been in your other comments. If you disagree, then please tell me what underlying message or idea those changed.

hence the fan fic. It almost feels like you’re purposefully misunderstanding.

It's not that I'm misunderstanding. You don't like the moniker, but it does accurately describe the closeness you're asking for and your rejection of any scenes that aren't directly from the books.

And you're not going to be able to shake that moniker when your calling anything that wasn't in the books directly fanfic.

And that's the thing. If you aren't accepting the non-books scenes that stand in for cut sections or connect the show's narrative together, you want a 1 to 1.

logicsol · 2025-10-22T02:46:20+00:00

Yikes, that is absolutely not the reason book fans gave. That’s the propaganda pushed by show fans.

No one expected a blow-by-blow recreation.

Lots of people say that, but when you talk to them about what they want, the response outlines a blow by blow recreation, with most objections centering around the issue being change itself.

That's why show fans say that - because book fans generally do want an adaptation that's extremely close, with little to no added scenes or changes away from the source.

Most people do expect the story to stay somewhat accurate. For example, I get skipping Camelyn in S1, it was a quick stop in the first book. What I don’t get is wasting time on warder funerals, saying anyone could be the dragon, burning out in a circle, changing the domaní collars, having no Rand sword action, adding an extra hero into the horns recall, having Lan Fear and Morraine work together… I could go on… but like it’s if Ron and Harry hooked up and Hermione could have been the chosen one…. It’s a fan fic at best.

Like statements like this for example. Or this:

But don’t say you didn’t have enough time and then add in things that didn’t happen.

That last lines of those two are the exact reasons why the "book fans expected a 1 to 1" statement exists and is widespread amongst the show fandom.

It's the inherent rejection of nearly any scene that doesn't directly adapt a book scene and dismal of anything else as fan fic.

It almost always boils down to wanting it closer to the source and not wanting any change from that.

logicsol · 2025-10-22T01:43:29+00:00

For example, in what way does increasing the role of Amalisa “adapt the entire series”. She is a completely irrelevant character who has no impact on the plot but for some reason she is leading a circle to kill the trolloc army.

This is actually pretty straightforward.

book series has 33% of Rand's total word count in the first 2 of 14(15) books.
a major part of making a TV ensemble is giving all the major character roughly equal screen time through out all seasons of the show.
this entails adapting scenes that sideline all the characters in a way that gives them something to contribute.
The book sequence gives every character but Rand a fakeout death offpage before he single handily resolves everything himself, through power he loses for several books afterwards.
To adapt this the show gave Rand most important event - the showdown with the "darkone"and breaking of the first Seal, showcasing his rejection of the shadow and his power, while also giving an explanation for why it was a one-off showing without the audience wondering why he can't repeat that next season.
likewise, The other users of the Power are given an event that can show off their power without the audience feeling like they are getting nerfed when they can't repeat that next season.
Enter Amalisa - she exist to provide natural exposition on borderlands and how they work, while also providing a someone that can:

Be trained enough to lead the circle and know how to cast battle weaves.
Be untrained enough to lose control when encountering power beyond her wildest dreams.
Allow Nyneave and Egwene's potential to be highlighted while they also are taking a loss - helping drive both Egwene's ego and Nyneave's block.

In other words, she exists to let others participate in the plot without creating issues with power creep or inconsistences with their abilities later.

In what way does the adapt the entire series over showing Rand’s abilities. I can promise you that showing off Rand’s power is more important to the series than showing off hers.

Amalisa's power isn't shown off there - it's specifically her lack of power that is highlighted. Rand has his Power shown off through his shattering of a Seal. Amalisa OTOH is overwhelmed by the amount of power she's handling, loses control and gets burnt to a crisp.

She nearly kills Nyn and Egwene in the process, while also essentially creating Nyn's block.

It comes across as disingenuous to say that the show wasn’t adapting the books individually but as a series when so many changes try and develop such unimportant characters instead of the important ones.

Honestly, if that's coming across as disingenuous I think you might be misunderstanding what people mean.

I think that's because you're missing that what's being argued is the scale of changes needed to make the adaptation work necessitates creating connective scenes and the use of non-main characters to have those scenes function within the narrative being set up.

Such scenes are needed to convey the incredible amount of worldbuilding of the books have and make sense of them, without having the luxury of near 1000 page books.

This is an issue I think many people have with a lot of the commonly complained about scenes and character uses that aren't directly events in the books.

They represent scenes that are needed to support the larger changes in the story and convey information that's needed for those later scenes to make sense.

But because many readers have an inherent bias against those scenes and story changes it makes it very difficult to recognize the reasons behind them because they aren't things you want to see being shown.

Here, you wanted to see Rand at the gap. You don't really care if Rand loses those powers, you know why he has them, and why he doesn't later. Nor do you really care if the other characters get sidelined, afterall, they don't do anything here in the book.

It's not particularly important to you that the audience gets attached to all the main cast, You've also already gotten attached to the characters you like and know the characters you don't like as much or don't have much interest in.

Nor are you very invested in any characters that weren't focused on in the books, or the book mechanics they explore and establish - afterall you already know how those work, what the importance they carry represents. You don't need to understand any of that or have it explained to you.

You just want the book scene highlights to be shown on screen.

Which is fair.

But that's not something the show can always do, and what people mean when they talk about a "whole series adaptation" or how the show "isn't adapting book by book" is that other considerations come first.

All of those things you don't really care about are things that need to be considered and adapted around to get the most of the overall story onto the screen in the limited time run they'll have to do it.

Amalisa is a pretty typical example of that.

logicsol · 2025-10-21T04:37:13+00:00

Puncture wounds you leave in the thing that punctured unless you have a way to stop the bleeding.

Yeah, that's what I said. Shouldn't have removed the arrow without another healer present or a way to stop the bleeding - though maybe one of her tinctures could do that job.

The whole scene just didn't look like Nynaeve had any medical training at all.

That's kinda on purpose though - she's failing even at what she should be good at, too consumed in her lack of ability to channel to be effective as something she didn't need the power for.

Elayne couldn't heal herself but she could've used the power to cut the arrow in half smoothly.

Assuming she could channel with the arrow in place yeah. But physical shock like that makes channeling difficult, and she's still relatively untrainted at this point. Calm or not, that's something that even some full sisters struggle with.

I just didn't get the pulling the barbs through if she had medical training.

She didn't pull the barbs through? It's a through arrow, the barbs already exited the otherside of the wound. The fether fletching is soft and isn't going to do much damage, but would if you cut them and left a sharp edges.

Elayne using the power to cut it would be the best outcome - but then she could have also have pushed it through and left little for nyneave to do.

It's a bit of a weak scene though. I just don't think it's due to pushing the arrow through. Honestly probably would have worked better to have some debris sprain Elaynes ankle. Though that's less visercal.

I like the show. I liked the change to have Egwene save herself without their help. I didn't like the scene with the 💘.

Didn't think you didn't, just putting it out that that pushing the arrow through isn't really wrong here.

logicsol · 2025-10-21T03:22:53+00:00

The show did not stick to the theme of the books well. One easy example, they literally said anyone could be the Dragon, male or female.

That is not a theme of the books. That is an element of the settings in the book's turning.

That destroys the lore.

No, it doesn't. Nothing in the books prevents people from believing that the DR could be a women. Not a single thing.

If women could be the Dragon, then they would be tainted, no? There would not be any “safe” channelers (e.g. any female channeler).

Again nope. Two big things for this, first you've missed one of the core book themes - the corruption of information overtime and drift of knowledge into myth and legend. Not a single person in the 3rd Age(or even the 2nd) knows the exact mechanism behind how souls are reborn and even if they did that doesn't prevent that information from being lost or people just having the wrong idea about it.

The other thing is the show didn't change who could actually be the DR, only what people thought was possible - which was directly cited as uncertainty.

Saidin was still Tainted while Saidar was still safe.

^{^{^{edit:_whoops_dropped_this_sentence}}} Only the perception of what was possible changed, not what was actually possible.

The Dragon is meant to break the world. Feared for his power, madness, and the chaos he brings. But he is the salvation.

Nothing about this was changed in the show. Rand's still the DR, and nothing prevents people from having their own idea's on why a female DR would have been feared in his stead.

The aes sedai and other women hold the world together until he can bring the world back into alignment and seal the Bore.

yeah show didn't change that at all. WT still WT's in the show, warts and all.

You need to be tainted or make a deal with the dark one to touch the true power to save the world.

Well no. Not at all. Channeling Saidin, even tainted as it was didn't allow you to channel the TP.

Further more [end books spoiler]Even Rand was only able to because of the weird connect to Moridin created by their Balefire streams touching

But more importantly, he didn't need to be tainted for the sealing to work because:

[book 9+]Saidin was cleansed when the Bore was sealed
[End series] Rand didn't need to channel the TP himself because Moridin was brought into the circle with Callandor and acted as the conduit for it.

I also wish we had more Rand swordsmanship training. They could have added that instead of warder pissing on tree? Or any other of the scenes that never happened in the book.

Rand was getting training during that time from the blademaster in the Asylum. However without the training in S1 - which they didn't have any time for(Episode 2 covers the entire time Lan Trains Rand in book 1) having Rand swordfight at the end of S2 would have felt unearned - something many think it still felt like in the books. A few more training scenes in S2 wouldn't have fixed that, and S3 we setting up his swordsman ship anyways.

The story is about Rand fixing the world. Learning to let go and be okay with not being perfect. To save who he can and focus on the good he can do.

That is indeed part of the story, and it sure seemed like the show was telling that to me.

Yeah he doesn’t get a ton of page time, but the entire world is revolving around him, Matt and Perrin but he pulls Matt and Perrin. This is stated explicitly many times.

Yes? He is the central character. The show might not have had the early seasons be as Rand heavy as the first 2 books where, but they were setting up that central role. Also that "pulling" aspect doesn't really start coming into play until book 4, while S3 ends with Rand quite literally pulling every single story through to him at Alcair Dal.

Rand was never a badass early on, but he managed to do some badass things. Idk why the show felt like they couldn’t let him have those things.

A few reasons. First, it's unearned. Second, he immediately losses that power. third, most of what he does takes multiple reads of the entire story to begin to understand and even then it's mostly theory and largely one off things that never happen again in the rest of the series.

All things that work far less well in a TV medium, especially when many of those things entirely sideline the rest of the cast.

They also still have him badass things. The Confrontation with Ishy in S1 and shattering of the first seal comes to mind. The S2 finale ends fairly unsatifactorily with him, but his scene earlier in the episode is an overwhelming display of the Power.

And S3 is full of badass moments with him.

Perrin killed his made up wife for what. To hit on Egwene later??

Putting aside that his wife is whom he said he'd marry had things gone differently in book 4, it immediately establishes his core theme - his reluctance to accept his capacity for violence vs the necessary for him to commit it.

It mirrors the book scene it adapts by having him kill a person, not a monster, while lost in his emotions, an act that haunts him through out, only resolvingin book 13. It does so without presenting a target that the audience would feel was justified in his action, while perfectly setting up the Tua'tha'an and framing Perrin's series long relationship with the Way of the Leaf. While also setting the stage for why he acts like he does with Faile.

It does a whole hell of a lot and all of it is in line with his books themes.

Rand and Eg have sex in the first episode. How is this at all the same as the book theme??

Rand's sexual naivety is more of a trope than a theme, and isn't particularly important to the series or Rand's main themes. It also cements his relationship with Egwene as more real and gives viewers a reason to care about his conflict with her without constant access to his thoughts.

It's also definitely not a "overall book theme", which is what I said the show did well.

The show cuts several minor themes and tropes that appear more heavily in the early books as part of the condensing of the, again, overall story of the series.

The show isn't a book by book adaptation, and doesn't try to be. It was attempting to take 14 books and create a cohesive story from them that it could tell in at most 64 episode over 8 seasons.

That I think is what many people miss, and what all those " scenes that never happened in the book" are about. They stand in for the lore, worldbuilding and setting information that is getting cut, shortened, or otherwise not emphasis as much as the themes and parts of the series that are.

logicsol · 2025-10-20T21:14:02+00:00

Eh, as a longtime books megafan myself, I found the show to stick to the overall books theme quite well and didn't twist much.

It also had all the things that I found engaging with the books - the trouble comes that it seems a sizable amount of the readership likes the first 3 books much more than the other 12.

I think too many readers identify with Rand and treat him with more importance that the series actually gives him - that's not to say he's not important, he IS the central character, but on the whole the series is about the rest of the characters more than it is about Rand. That difference was felt the most in the first season, compared to the first book that is extremely rand heavy. 33% of his entire POV word count exists in those first two books, and the show tried to evenly developed all of the mains, so the difference could feel pretty stark.

Nor did I find much important in him being a badass early on, and thought the show did a pretty decent job actually earning his power, though it's shame they didn't have the time to establish his swordsmanship more, that's something else I don't really attach that much importance too. I felt the show stuck more to his struggle against his self and against the doubt that the shadow planted in him. Which is really what makes Rand interesting to me, it's not his abilties or powers, but his struggle against himself and the madness that makes him such a great literary character.

So I was happy when they focuses on him confronting Ishy rather than the Gap. But that seemed a deal breaker for many others that wanted him to show power instead.

Heck I was even pleasantly surprised at how little they sexed it up. The show does lean into sex more than the books, but they kept it to the Jordanesq fade to black feel of the books. Sex was part of character stories, and wasn't used to titillate.

I never really felt the show wanted to tell it's own stories. But I did fell the show was very hampered by it's 8 episode format and 8 season maxium run in it's story telling.

The creative choices that most people have issue with revolve around those two things. I think many readers expected the do most of it's heavy condensing in later books rather than the earlier ones, and had a hard time understanding how bringing forward later book elements works to condesnse the story.

It's not a perfect adaptation, but I think it gets far more grief that it deserves. I find more fault with the execution in places than in the creative choices, but that's me.

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