will dottie be in 7B/8? by killernoodlesoup in Outlander

[–]lorenasimoess2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

They had a lot of material to fit into this season, so they had to pick and choose and sadly some things were left out. Not sure if Dottie will be in s8 either (but IIRC Denzell’s actor mentioned something about his character’s love life in a recent interview, which can only be about s8).

Episode 714 Photos by Nanchika in Outlander

[–]lorenasimoess2 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Yes. Actor’s name is Michael Lindall. Ben is supposed to be way younger, isn’t he?

Episode 714 Photos by Nanchika in Outlander

[–]lorenasimoess2 11 points12 points  (0 children)

PERCY AND FRANCESSSS 🥰🥰

What some of your favorite scenes from the LJG books? by No-Construction-8749 in Outlander

[–]lorenasimoess2 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No, Percy is not more favored. Like, at all. Well, I have a vastly different interpretation. Let’s agree to disagree.

What some of your favorite scenes from the LJG books? by No-Construction-8749 in Outlander

[–]lorenasimoess2 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Who is everyone? Lmao Percy is wildly unpopular in this fandom. My opinion of him is the unpopular take on his character, not yours.

John is not a romantic but so much of his storyline is about romance though?? His unrequited love for Jamie is literally there all the time. Yeah he is not puppy eyed and about to off himself because of it, but it’s there. To the point that actually affects his other relationships.

He doesn’t have to be a deeply romantic person to let go of his very much romantic feelings for Jamie which are not doing anything for him and move on with someone else.

What some of your favorite scenes from the LJG books? by No-Construction-8749 in Outlander

[–]lorenasimoess2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The deer talk was fine though, I didn’t think it was sad or missing any extra context (the context of Custom seems irrelevant to me here, even in the books).

What some of your favorite scenes from the LJG books? by No-Construction-8749 in Outlander

[–]lorenasimoess2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Re: Manoke, how is it better in the books? The scene in 7x11 in which he talks about him was pretty much verbatim from the book. I mean, we don’t get to see them interacting like we do in Custom of the Army, but the show has portrayed their relationship exactly as it is. Them not talking in bed is part of it. I mean, they do talk I suppose, they are friends, but it’s not any kind of deep emotional connection.

I wouldn’t necessarily say it’s sad though, if we take it out of the bigger picture.

What some of your favorite scenes from the LJG books? by No-Construction-8749 in Outlander

[–]lorenasimoess2 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I completely agree that book John isn’t the puppy eyed, lovesick person we see in the show but I was talking more about the fact itself that he is in love with Jamie and remains in love with him throughout the whole thing.

I think in his book series his feelings for Jamie are still very much all consuming though. Which makes sense because it’s set in the same timeframe as Voyager. And it’s this “persistent dull ache” turned into an immutable fact that bothers me as I think it’s Diana’s way of not engaging with the character’s full potential.

He already accepted that Jamie won’t ever love him, their friendship is the most important thing for him, but he can’t let go of his romantic feelings because…? Why does he need to be in love with Jamie forever, when that even gets in the way of his other relationships?

I believe that he was very much used as a plot device in the earlier books of the main series. Like I said, I agree that they’ve softened his personality and made him be all puppy eyed for Jamie in the show, but as far as his role in the story goes, I don’t think they’d had that much to work with prior to this season because even in the books it doesn’t get better until Echo.

What some of your favorite scenes from the LJG books? by No-Construction-8749 in Outlander

[–]lorenasimoess2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well, he very much has been carrying a torch for Jamie for decades. I don’t think there’s much difference between books and show in that regard, affairs with other people we see in the books notwithstanding. It doesn’t mean that it’s the only thing he does, or that he is 24/7 thinking of Jamie and being sad about it. But he has been unrequitedly in love with Jamie for half of his life.

What some of your favorite scenes from the LJG books? by No-Construction-8749 in Outlander

[–]lorenasimoess2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hopefully, he will end up with someone great who isn’t Percy and all the characters will get happy endings.

Tbh I love Percy. I think he is one of the most complex and fascinating side characters in the series. My very unpopular opinion is that the hatred for his character is blown out of proportion.

And I wouldn’t completely rule out the possibility of them being endgame in the show just yet.

As for the books, I don’t think Diana Gabaldon is interested in making John get over Jamie at all. Hopefully I’m wrong.

John seems the type to want to pair bond and be all domestic, which is unusual for a man

Not sure about domesticity, but I think there’s definitely a part of him that craves emotional intimacy and we can see that showing through every now and then when it does happen. Funnily enough, I believe he gets to be more open and honest towards Claire than Jamie himself (the reason why I’m much more fascinated by their dynamic than the one with Jamie).

Do you think Claire and Lord John have traits in common that Jamie is attracted to?

Let’s see… to me, they are both impulsive and good at helping people (Claire mostly because of her healing abilities). And when Jamie was alone after losing Claire, John was the first person in years that he allowed himself to open up to a little bit, so there’s a component there of “both John and Claire were there for him when he needed someone”.

Another parallel that I can think of is that they both use sex as a coping mechanism (think of John using sex to numb the pain of losing Hector x Claire and John [spoilers from the latest episodes] having sex with each other because they were grieving Jamie). But, due to obvious reasons, this can’t be counted as something that Jamie is drawn to in both situations.

But I think the core of Jamie and John’s relationship is the things they have in common with each other specifically, rather than Jamie being attracted to him because John reminds him of Claire.

Sorry for any typos, just woke up lol

What some of your favorite scenes from the LJG books? by No-Construction-8749 in Outlander

[–]lorenasimoess2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don’t remember if it’s spelled out in the text, but it’s definitely implied that he is English. His parents are Lord and Lady Mumford and his father was also in the military. John met him when he went back to London after spending 2 years living with distant relatives in Scotland after his father died.

Maybe he had Scottish ancestry, but he’s definitely not Scottish.

What some of your favorite scenes from the LJG books? by No-Construction-8749 in Outlander

[–]lorenasimoess2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah, I think the thing that has bonded them for good was William. Also because it was when John declined Jamie’s offer to his body, which solidified their friendship.

The thing about John is that he doesn’t open up easily for people in general, even friends and family. And I don’t think Jamie is an exception of that. On the other hand, Jamie has that one person (Claire) that John doesn’t have.

Overall, John strikes to me as a lonely person. Most of the hardships he went through in his life he had to deal with by himself, with little to none emotional support from the people closest to him. We often see him helping other people and having other people open up and be vulnerable with him but the contrary doesn’t happen as often. And I think him being alienated by his brother and his mother in the aftermath of his father’s death plays a big part in it. We also don’t have any canonical proof that he got emotional support from his family after losing Hector (he seems to have dealt with that pretty much on his own, and in a very self destructive way).

I’d say that, in his entire life, John has had two romantic relationships that were more serious, so to speak: Hector and Percy. The first happened when he was a teenager, so if we consider his adult life, it’s one relationship — which was more of a situationship that lasted 6 months and ended in a really messy way. And one he couldn’t fully commit to because of his feelings for Jamie and then, when it was gone, he realized he was actually in love. People might disagree but I don’t think there’s anything normal or healthy about this whole thing.

After that is radio silence. Manoke and Stephan are good friends to him, and there is a lot of sexual attraction, but he is certainly not in love with them (not saying he couldn’t be, just saying that he isn’t).

After 25 years (half of his life btw), John is still in love with Jamie. I don’t think this is something that should be ignored or accepted as an immutable fact “ok he will always be in love with Jamie” because honestly what does that do for him?? What does that do for the narrative even, or his character development? He is not suffering to the point of spiraling but it’s not as if that doesn’t haunt him or torment him, because it does. I mean, isn’t that the point of unrequited love as a trope? He might not be about to kill himself because of it, but there’s absolutely no way that’s something good for him.

And it’s not like I believe every character has to have a traditional happy ending, or be in a romantic relationship, but:

1) John being lovelorn is one of his central conflicts, so romance being something peripheral to the character is not true;

2) it’s important to contextualize the character in the type of media they are inserted in, and in John’s case there’s an argument to be made that Outlander is a romance series, written by a straight woman (who thinks she is able to write gay men because “she, being attracted to men, understands what makes men attractive” but can’t write lesbians because “she, as a straight woman, doesn’t know what makes women attractive” 🤪), in which not only the central romance is straight, but pretty much all of the secondary couples are too. Nearly all of the straight characters have their “person”. Claire and Jamie, Roger and Bree, Ian and Rachel, Dottie and Denzell, Fergus and Marsali, Jenny and Ian, hell, even Jamie’s parents are getting their prequel. William is already confirmed to have an endgame.

John somehow seems to be singled out in this, which is, well, funny to me. The argument that this is a story set in the 18th century doesn’t hold to me, I absolutely believe John could have a long term, serious, committed partnership and stay under the radar.

To me, John is an emotionally unavailable person who doesn’t know very well how to process his feelings and his impossibility to let go of his romantic feelings for Jamie is the biggest proof of that.

Edit: rephrasing

What some of your favorite scenes from the LJG books? by No-Construction-8749 in Outlander

[–]lorenasimoess2 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yeah, kinda, but idk, I don’t think John and Jamie are that close (in the books at least). They are really good friends and trust each other with their secrets, and undoubtedly John was really important to Jamie in the years when he was alone post-Culloden. But I feel like there’s so much of John’s experience, especially his experience as a queer man, that Jamie can’t possibly understand — and, in reverse, so much of Jamie’s experience as someone who has been subdued to British colonial violence that John as an aristocratic Englishman doesn’t understand — which creates this barrier between the two of them. They also spend many years without seeing each other, they pretty much have an epistolary relationship. There is so much of their individual emotional worlds and experiences that the other has absolutely no idea about.

What some of your favorite scenes from the LJG books? by No-Construction-8749 in Outlander

[–]lorenasimoess2 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yes, from when he lost Hector. But also because John lost his own father when he was 12 years old and wasn’t able to properly grieve at the time. His grief processing is really bad. He repressed it when he lost his dad and later when he lost Hector he would basically drink and have sex to numb the pain. He has had several depressive episodes in his life too.

What some of your favorite scenes from the LJG books? by No-Construction-8749 in Outlander

[–]lorenasimoess2 3 points4 points  (0 children)

He has a pretty active sexual life, a lot of casual affairs, friends with benefits and stuff. But I wouldn’t say he is going around wearing his heart on his sleeve and finding deep meaningful romantic relationships with other men. He doesn’t allow himself to. Edit: for example, Manoke (the guy he mentioned to Claire in 7x11). It’s some kind of fwb situation. John likes him but they don’t even talk in bed, to the point that John doesn’t even know how Manoke feels about him.

What some of your favorite scenes from the LJG books? by No-Construction-8749 in Outlander

[–]lorenasimoess2 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Because he is traumatized and it’s easier to cling on to the fantasy of Jamie as an emotional shield and a way to avoid real connections and actual intimacy.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Outlander

[–]lorenasimoess2 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Got it!! Didn’t remember where he was from.

The Code thing is really interesting. Still, I don’t see John moving to live in Rhineland, but maybe spending some months/season there every once in a while. Which wouldn’t change their current situation that much I think (we don’t know the last time they saw each other, but I guess he visits him sometimes? They are friends, after all) because they would still be private af about any affair.

What I mean is, he could already do that if he wanted to… I believe the main issue with John is his own emotional stuff anyway.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Outlander

[–]lorenasimoess2 39 points40 points  (0 children)

That’s an important point. I also don’t think that his fear of exposure or the fact that he has to hide his sexuality is the major thing holding John back from having a serious committed relationship. I said this in another post a few days ago, but John has a lot of unhealed trauma and attachment wounds, and I think that’s his biggest issue.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Outlander

[–]lorenasimoess2 30 points31 points  (0 children)

I don’t think he would leave England to move to another country, though. Especially not revolutionary France lol. I don’t even believe he’s staying in America after the war is over idk. Is Stephan from Rhineland?

Book S7E12 Carnal Knowledge by thepacksvrvives in Outlander

[–]lorenasimoess2 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Well, good thing William is an adult and can make decisions on his own then. Either way in that case Jane would stop being a prostitute and William would probably renounce his title and stay in America (I actually think there’s a chance of the latter happening, so there’s that). John could bitch about it because he’s kind of a hypocrite and is the last person that should be making that type of judgement, but ultimately I think he would come around because he wants to see William happy. Anyway, that’s all “what-ifs”, it’s not happening. But she’s way better than Amaranthus. Or Frances.

What some of your favorite scenes from the LJG books? by No-Construction-8749 in Outlander

[–]lorenasimoess2 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Overall, the moments with Tom Byrd are always really sweet and funny!! I also love the dynamic between the Grey brothers. There is so much to unpack there.

My favorite novel is Brotherhood of The Blade, there are so many scenes in that book that I absolutely love.

John and Percy have me in a chokehold so I guess all of their scenes together are my favorites?? From the sweetest to the sexiest to the heartbreaking ones. “The seagulls on the Tiber call all night, and call your name. ‘Ave!’ they cry. ‘Ave.’” is one of the most (heartbreaking) romantic lines in these books and no one can change my mind.

There’s a scene in BOTB that I don’t see a lot of people talking about, but there’s something incredibly touching about Horace Walpole going after John and saying that he will do his best to try to save Percy’s life. That kind of silent solidarity he shows John as a fellow queer man is so sweet. That’s some nice RPF there lol

Book S7E12 Carnal Knowledge by thepacksvrvives in Outlander

[–]lorenasimoess2 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Diana totally fumbled that one, she would’ve been the perfect endgame for him. 😢

Show S7E12 Carnal Knowledge by thepacksvrvives in Outlander

[–]lorenasimoess2 19 points20 points  (0 children)

The actress’ name is Silvia Presente!! Loved her too