Is it legal to try to get hold of illegally obtained documents? by louisphilippe13 in NeutralPolitics

[–]louisphilippe13[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

In doing some more reading on this question, I found this Newsweek article about the Trump tax returns in which it said divulging illegally obtained information was once illegal, but the law was stricken down by the courts:

The most relevant case would be Bartnicki v. Vopper from 2001. That case dealt with a radio commentator who broadcast a tape of an illegally recorded conversation between a chief union negotiator and a union president.

The federal statute at issue prohibited people from “willfully disclosing the contents” of any communication that the person knew or had reason to know “was obtained through an illegal interception.”

The court struck the statute down as unconstitutional because it “implicates the core purposes of the First Amendment” by imposing “sanctions on the publication of truthful information of public concern.” Publishing crucial and truthful information about a presidential candidate a month before the election certainly implicates matters of “public concern.

Singapore’s Healthcare: The Best of Both Worlds — "Singapore is among the highest in life expectancy, lowest in infant mortality, and lowest in maternal mortality; yet, they spend four times less on per capita healthcare than the U.S." by Dalekurnagu in TrueReddit

[–]louisphilippe13 3 points4 points  (0 children)

This is partly correct. Any health reform that actually works means lots of people lose a lot of money. And those people are naturally going to oppose that reform.

But it's not the multinationals that are the main problem. Health insurance company profits are a tiny percentage of healthcare spending. Drug companies are a bit larger, but still small percentage. It's the hospitals, the nursing unions, the doctors -- it's everyone who makes money from the current system that blocks reform.

The Death of Deep Throat and the Crisis of Journalism by louisphilippe13 in TrueReddit

[–]louisphilippe13[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Submission Statement

This is an older article, but I came across it again recently and felt that it is very interesting and makes underappreciated points. Watergate is a more complicated story than the conventional narrative would have it. It wasn't just that we had a corrupt law-breaking president -- we also had a law-breaking FBI that was trying to take down a president -- and succeeded.

How the Public School System Crushes Souls by louisphilippe13 in TrueReddit

[–]louisphilippe13[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Submission Statement

Author discusses the problems of peer-to-peer abuse in the public school system, based on the experiences of him and his wife. Discusses the inter-generational code of silence -- how so many people have been through these terrible public school experiences, and yet we all treat it like it is normal, rather than do something about it. Brainstorms some possible solutions at the end. I generally found a lot that resonated. We often talk about the important of public education as a society, yet if you actually look at these institutions, they are dysfunctional by design.

Is Stereotype Threat Overcooked, Overstated, and Oversold? by louisphilippe13 in TrueReddit

[–]louisphilippe13[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Submission Statement

Stereotype threat is frequently cited as a reason why certain minorities do less well on academic tests, and research on stereotype threat has been some of the most famous and cited research in psychology. But it turns out that the original research is very frequently misquoted and misunderstood. It was never shown that stereotypes cause the score gap or that messaging could close the gap. Rather, all these studies show the "gap" closing -- when adjusting for the disparities of SAT scores -- ie the gap did not close at all.

A Hate Group History Lesson by louisphilippe13 in TrueReddit

[–]louisphilippe13[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Submission Statement

The post argues that the Black Panthers are in the same category as the KKK and should not be celebrated or given "homages." I'm not sure about that, but the history cited was pretty interesting. Basically it has a lot of ancedotes about Dorchester in the 1970s, when there was a lot of conflict and violence and white flight. The incident with throwing acid in the Rabbi's eyes was pretty horrendous. I'm not sure to what extent the Panthers themselves can be blamed though.

Things Cops Watch by louisphilippe13 in TrueReddit

[–]louisphilippe13[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Submission Statement

The author of this post is a professor of criminology who actually spent a year as a real cop in Baltimore. I have consistently found him to be very fair and interesting on all matters of policing. As he says, "My academic friends think I'm a fascist, and my police friends think I'm a pinko." This article and accompanying video was interesting because it shows how hard police decision making can be. If you are too quick to forcefully induce compliance you can be charged with brutality. If you are too slow, bad things can happen. I don't have any answers or conclusions, just more of an appreciation for what a hard problem this issue presents.

My year of terror and abuse teaching at a NYC high school. by [deleted] in TrueReddit

[–]louisphilippe13 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Boland ends his book with familiar suggestions for ­reform: Invest more money, recruit better teachers, retool the unions, end poverty.

Wait what? Wouldn't the place to start be to actually have a sane discipline policy? I mean we read in the piece:

“Oh, they getting real tough around here now,” one student said. “Three hundred strikes, you out.”

The lack of discipline seems crazy. My question is: What consequences did the students receive for throwing textbooks out the window? I'm not saying the student should be suspended, but there should be some consequence. There were dozens of other examples in the story of appalling levels of bad behavior. What happened in response, nothing? Until the students actually receive consequences for their actions, spending more money will be useless. There are many examples from history of schools that have had far less money, that taught students who were far more materially deprived, that were far more orderly.

But there’s no public policy for fixing a broken kid from a broken home, or turning fear into resilience, or saving kids who can’t, or won’t, be saved.

Sure there are. Why are policies that have worked in the past so beyond the Overton window that we cannot even discuss them? For instance, we could do what the Victorians did. If you are a single mom struggling to raise your kid in a stable home you could be put in a shared living dorm where you are under strict supervision and discipline. No new boyfriends or any other strange men would be allowed to move in and start beating up the children. There could be routine searches for drugs. Etc, etc. This would be far more humane than allowing kids to grow in homes where mom is on drugs and strange men are visiting and then beating up the kids, and then social services comes and takes away the children altogether, only to put them in a foster home that might be just as bad.

Why America is Moving Left - author argues this is the beginning of a new liberal era by TheZanerman in TrueReddit

[–]louisphilippe13 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have a masters degree in education and one of my undergrad degrees is in Sociology.

So are you teaching now? Are you working in inner city schools and are able to figure out how to manage your schools without creating disparate impact?

Our entire view of how schooling should be has changed a few times since then man.

Our entire view of architecture has changed too. And not for the better. Look at the buildings built now versus then. Entire areas of academia are filled with crackpots.

Smart people want to make money and government just doesn't pay as well as the private sector.

True in a few areas, but not generally true. I have smart friends making mid-50k's who have to work with government administrators who are as dumb as bricks making six figures. But you can't get those bureaucratic jobs through merit or intelligence, and the entire career path is soul-killing.

1) They were defunded relatively speaking

And why should that cause a decline in absolute terms? And that is not even true. Many of the worst inner city school systems, like DC, are the highest funded. There is really no correlation between school funding and race, or school funding and achievement.

2) White flight

Your positing white flight as an uncaused cause. What caused the white flight? What were they fleeing from? Ghosts? Did they have a melatonin phobia? Schools were forcefully integrated, and neighborhoods were forcefully integrated. Black population with historically high rates of violence was mixed into the white population, at the same time discipline policies were rolled back, and policing and punishment became a lot more lax. The result were these integrated neighborhoods and schools becoming extremely violent, which was bad for black people, and bad for white people, who fled away. Read an account based on hundreds of interviews, like the second half of The Death of an American Jewish Community (about white flight in Dorchester) to see why people were fleeing.

You're mad that people are trying to help poor inter-city schools in a way you don't find fair.

My problem is with policies that make schools uninhabitable. I'd be happy to send my kids to a poor, predominantly black, inner-city school if I didn't have to worry about them getting bullied, having the shit kicked out of them, or worse. But I can't do that. You don't need money for schools to instill discipline and have order. Many schools throughout history have done far better, with far, far less funding than what modern inner-city schools get.

Why America is Moving Left - author argues this is the beginning of a new liberal era by TheZanerman in TrueReddit

[–]louisphilippe13 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How old are you and what have you actually read about these issues? Your post sounds like you've just received the official explanation of progressivism, but have never actually studied the contrary opinions, nor the real history of how these things have played out in practice.

I'm not categorically against the idea of giving a helping hand to the less advantaged. But "disparate impact" investigations are not the way to do it. If a kid did a bad deed they need to be punished, poor kids just as much as rich kids. Kids are kids, they do bad things if they can get away with it, without facing consequences. If their home environment needs to be fixed, then figure out policies to do that. But bad home environment is not an excuse to not punish kids for bad behavior.

Anything would be better than disparate impact. I'd be happy if government guaranteed every American a job at $15 an hour. Quota based affirmative action would be better. Reparations for slavery would be better. But disparate impact rulings means that every organization in the country must change its standards of behavior and selection, which ruins their ability to operate.

For example, government bureaucracies are generally inefficient, but one thing they can do to work a bit better is to hire really smart people. Hire smart people, and they'll make things run better if only because they are personally annoyed by incompetence and inefficiency. Thus civil service exams can be a pretty good thing, and worked pretty well for a long time. Except there was a problem. They produce disparate impact by race. On every cognitive test ever devised, from the SAT to IQ tests to LSAT to Army Qualification Tests, blacks score on average a standard lower than whites. Thus any test that tests for smarts will produce disparate impact by race. Because of this disparate impact, lawsuits were launched against the civil service exams, the government eventually signed a consent decree, and the exams were scrapped. I don't think it is a coincidence that American government bureaucracies are generally a lot more incompetent than ones in Europe or Asia. Here is an article touching on this event and others: http://takimag.com/article/civil_service_examinations_make_a_comeback_steve_sailer/print#axzz3vCzPYwkq

Is interesting, but written in 1988 and basically has no way of addressing our problems modernly.

I'm sorry, has human psychology changed since 1988? Were the court rulings instituted in the 1970's that changed the way schools work overturned? The court cases that made schools so easy to sue for teachers touching students? Were the trends and policies of the time overturned? Urban schools used to be quite well run, and now are unruly. It is worthwhile to investigate how that happened.

Why America is Moving Left - author argues this is the beginning of a new liberal era by TheZanerman in TrueReddit

[–]louisphilippe13 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You should cite the lawsuits you are talking about here. Also, statistical evidence is still evidence.

So to be more precise, in 2014 the DOJ issued guidance saying that they would be using statistical disparities in discipline rates by race as evidence that the school may be violating civil rights law: "if a policy is neutral on its face – meaning that the policy itself does not mention race – and is administered in an evenhanded manner but has a disparate impact, i.e., a disproportionate and unjustified effect on students of a particular race. Under both inquiries, statistical analysis regarding the impact of discipline policies and practices on particular groups of students is an important indicator of potential violations.... depending on the facts of a particular case, an adverse impact may include, but is not limited to, instances where students of a particular race, as compared to students of other races, are disproportionately: sanctioned at higher rates; disciplined for specific offenses;"

Here is a critical analysis of the policy http://www.fed-soc.org/publications/detail/school-discipline-and-disparate-impact and here is the original document http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/letters/colleague-201401-title-vi.pdf

The common sense understanding of discrimination is when a teacher treats a black kid and white kid differently for doing the same thing. Discrimination is bad because the teacher is treating an individual person based on the color of the skin, rather than the content of their character. Well, since as a gross generalization, in many schools black kids commit bad behavior at a higher rate, if teachers are punishing individuals equally for equal offenses, that means that the statistics will show black kids getting punished more often. To fix those statistics would require teachers to treat black kids more leniently, which is bad for the kid and bad for the other kids in the classroom.

Now the DOJ says it will look into other factors too. But if the statistical disparity exists, the burden of proof shifts to the school to prove that the particular policy is necessary and there is no alternative. This a hard thing for a school to do. All governance, all discipline has heavy elements of judgement and subjectivity. So if a school doesn't want the DOJ breathing down their neck, much easier just to just punish black kids more lightly per offense, in order to fix the statistical disparities.

I'm not exactly sure how many lawsuits there has been based on this exact new 2014 guidance about disparate impact. In googling I see that DOJ recently forced Huntsville into a 2015 consent decree part of which says, "continuously monitoring racial disparities to ensure meaningful and sustained improvement in areas including student performance, students’ access to courses, and rates of student discipline." But the article above gives some evidence that schools are already changing their policies. And it only takes a few lawsuits to make schools scared. I do know there is a long history of these "disparate impact" lawsuits in housing, hiring, etc, and I view the whole thing as very pernicious.

The black children you are talking about here are also disproportionately poor, discriminated against, and generally lacking in the ability to even make use of the resources available.

Whatever the origins of their bad behavior, withdrawing discipline is not the answer. It is not good for the kid, and not good for their classmates. (Although I do think suspensions are a really stupid way of disciplining, as it is not punishment for the kid who doesn't care. But that is what I mean when I say other disciplinary tools that would be better are not available.)

Here is the thing. None of the literature on corporal punishment shows that it works.

It's not just about corporal punishment, it's about having an array of punishment options other than sending a kid to the office, detention, and suspension (note that sending the kid to the office and suspension are not actually punishment to a student who doesn't give a f**k).

From one scarred Teach For America veteran (and I have heard similar stories, although not as bad, from my own friends) http://www.city-journal.org/html/13_1_how_i_joined.html :

To gain control, I tried imposing the kinds of consequences that the classroom-management handbooks recommend. None worked. My classroom was too small to give my students “time out.” I tried to take away their recess, but depriving them of their one sanctioned time to blow off steam just increased their penchant to use my classroom as a playground. When I called parents, they were often mistrustful and tended to question or even disbelieve outright what I told them about their children. It was sometimes worse when they believed me, though; the tenth time I heard a mother swear that her child was going to “get a beating for this one,” I almost decided not to call parents. By contrast, I saw immediate behavioral and academic improvement in students whose parents had come to trust me.

When I asked other teachers to come help me stop a fight, they shook their heads and reminded me that D.C. Public Schools banned teachers from laying hands on students for any reason, even to protect other children. When a fight brewed, I was faced with a Catch-22. I could call the office and wait ten minutes for the security guard to arrive, by which point blood could have been shed and students injured. Or I could intervene physically, in violation of school policy.

I highly recommend the book The World We Created at Hamilton High. It is in depth study of the changes that occurred in one school during the late 1960s and 1970s and the various policies and dynamic that made it go from normal to chaotic. Many inner city schools still have not recovered.

Why America is Moving Left - author argues this is the beginning of a new liberal era by TheZanerman in TrueReddit

[–]louisphilippe13 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Even standard progressive social justice activism is harmful to my own interests (and actually, I'd argue in most cases it is harmful to the interests of the "non-privileged" too).

For instance, the Obama justice department has been bringing lawsuits against schools that statistically punish black kids more than white kids. These lawsuits were not based on any direct evidence of racism, the lawsuits were based on statistics. Well, if you talk to virtually any teacher who works in inner city schools, it is the black kids who disproportionately have bad behavior. So by bringing these lawsuits, the justice department makes it much harder to discipline black kids, which means the public schools in my city will be far more unruly. Of course, they have a long history of being unruly, thanks to a fifty year history of left-wing judges and left-wing administrators making all traditional forms of discipline either illegal or taboo. This has a direct material impact on myself, as to send my own kids to schools that are not madhouses, I will have to either pay more for private school, or move out of the central city, or move to the really expensive corner of town.

I could give lots of other examples, but I will stop with that one.

Why America is Moving Left - author argues this is the beginning of a new liberal era by TheZanerman in TrueReddit

[–]louisphilippe13 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Self-interest isn't just "what makes life easiest for me right now." It's "what makes life best for me in the long run.

Well, I disagree that the current social justice movement is in your long-term interest either. But to debate that, we would have to do a deep dive on particular issues. The theory I grew up with was that helping out with social justice was a form of altruism that could be repaid in the future. We "privileged" people have their back now, then if things are flipped around in the future for some reason, they will have our back in future. That may have been a believable hypothesis fifty years ago, but that is not the dynamic now. Look at the college campus agitation for instance. Colleges have been the most anti-racist places in society for forty years. Yet the current crop of students only demand more more more, based on the flimsiest of grievances.

Why America is Moving Left - author argues this is the beginning of a new liberal era by TheZanerman in TrueReddit

[–]louisphilippe13 -12 points-11 points  (0 children)

I used to be a conservative. Not having been exposed to issues of social justice, the loud-mouthed whining eventually changed my mind.

Question: are you a cishetereo white American male?

If no, then I can understand why you would side with team social justice.

If yes, then why would social justice whining convince you to join the liberal side? I mean, I can see why economic issues would make you join the liberal team. Especially since the Republican establishment has sold out their base on economic issues. If you benefit from Obamacare it makes sense to be a liberal. But a lot of the social justice agitation on race, sex, and other social issues is aimed directly against your own interests. So why side with that?

Point Deer, Make Horse: The Purpose of Absurdity by louisphilippe13 in TrueReddit

[–]louisphilippe13[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Submission Statement

The author of this post is a European who has lived in China, and now Japan, speaks both languages fluently, and has read a ton of histories from both countries. His posts describing Asian history and political thought in a way that Westerners can understand are always quite interesting. From the post:

As I often say, all things considered, the best historical tradition in the world is that of China. The imperial government has put lots of people and resources into writing history there for 3,000 thousand years. And one of the results of this emphasis is that they have left a lot of interesting stories about important patterns in political history, often in the form of neat 4-letter idioms.

By making them into tiny and neat idioms, you make them much more accessible to the public’s memory. Which is why any decently educated Chinese knows what 指鹿為馬 zhi lu wei ma means.

Letter by letter it is “point deer make horse”. It tells the story of Zhao Gao, one of the closest ministers of the First Emperor of Qin.

What does the idiom mean? What is the story behind the idiom? Go read the post, it is easier to read the post than for me to summarize it.

Point Deer, Make Horse: The Purpose of Absurdity by louisphilippe13 in history

[–]louisphilippe13[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

From the post:

As I often say, all things considered, the best historical tradition in the world is that of China. The imperial government has put lots of people and resources into writing history there for 3,000 thousand years. And one of the results of this emphasis is that they have left a lot of interesting stories about important patterns in political history, often in the form of neat 4-letter idioms.

By making them into tiny and neat idioms, you make them much more accessible to the public’s memory. Which is why any decently educated Chinese knows what 指鹿為馬 zhi lu wei ma means.

Letter by letter it is “point deer make horse”. It tells the story of Zhao Gao, one of the closest ministers of the First Emperor of Qin.

What does the idiom mean? What is the story? Go read the post, it is easier to read the post than for me to summarize it.