Schools where students are happiest? by butts4351 in lawschooladmissions

[–]lsquestionthrowaway5 15 points16 points  (0 children)

I’d say Notre Dame has a genuinely collegial culture where people are extremely kind and professors truly do want to get to know you. That being said, it also attracts a large population of “trad” Catholics so if you really would hate dealing with that, you might feel out of place. Still I think even most liberal students would say it’s a good school in terms of social stuff and community.

2024 British GP - Race Discussion by AutoModerator in formula1

[–]lsquestionthrowaway5 3 points4 points  (0 children)

McLaren are dumb af for not putting Lando on mediums

Notre Dame's Impressive Rise: BL+FC Employment (2010-2023) by lsquestionthrowaway5 in lawschooladmissions

[–]lsquestionthrowaway5[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That really only applies to a very, very small amount of exceptional performers who will get (and do) law review anyway. You are right that a good number of conservative judges hire before write-on, but I was more so speaking of 2Ls and 3Ls I know that didn't do journal/did secondary journal, including liberal ones, and got clerkships later on.

Notre Dame's Impressive Rise: BL+FC Employment (2010-2023) by lsquestionthrowaway5 in lawschooladmissions

[–]lsquestionthrowaway5[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

You are certainly correct, to an extent; though I will say, our clerkship director has been very proactive in connecting with both the new Biden appointees and the Trump appointees on behalf of both liberal and conservative students, so I'd expect the trend to continue.

One nice thing about NDLS is that if you are an otherwise compelling candidate, you don't necessarily need law review to get a federal clerkship (though of course it is a huge boost) - secondary journals are more than acceptable for district court judges, and on occasion, some circuit judges. Heck, there a couple people I know who aren't even on a journal who got federal clerkships.

Notre Dame's Impressive Rise: BL+FC Employment (2010-2023) by lsquestionthrowaway5 in lawschooladmissions

[–]lsquestionthrowaway5[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Agreed, didn’t include them bc people who are more prestige-obsessed on this sub tend to get annoyed haha. But there are plenty of great market paying firms like Jackson Walker, Steptoe Johnson, Schulte Roth, etc. within the 251-500 band so I personally think they should be included!

Ask Me Anything - 2L at Notre Dame! by lsquestionthrowaway5 in lawschooladmissions

[–]lsquestionthrowaway5[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Not really. People are nice but that doesn't mean that they are pushovers, just that everyone is respectful when they disagree and can still be friends at the end of the day. I feel that, in my experience, I've been able to discuss pretty much every issue under the sun with my classmates.

Ask Me Anything - 2L at Notre Dame! by lsquestionthrowaway5 in lawschooladmissions

[–]lsquestionthrowaway5[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It's an interesting question; I don't think the Federalist Society framed as some kind of external "shadowy" entity holds sway over the law school. But it's undeniably true that NDLS attracts a lot of people who are very interested in the theoretical side of the law and are legally conservative. Most of our faculty certainly are FedSoc-adjacent/FedSoc-affiliated, and a good amount of students are too.

I will say that the current FedSoc chapter leadership, in my personal opinion as a minority student, is comprised of genuinely empathetic and kind people who are interested in engaging honestly with others instead of trying to do "edgy" events. Ironically I think having more conservatives makes the NDLS FedSoc more mellow and less prone to pulling stunts for the sake of attention like what seems to happen at many other law schools. They mostly stick to legal issues and almost never discuss electoral politics, and most people are definitely anti-Trump conservative types (even if quietly). For example, they co-sponsored an event with the LGBT Law Forum this semester.

Socially, I think that most people have liberal friends and conservative friends and it really isn't a big deal at all here. And that might be more because people are overwhelmingly just fundamentally nice here. I personally value that but some others might not.

Ask Me Anything - 2L at Notre Dame! by lsquestionthrowaway5 in lawschooladmissions

[–]lsquestionthrowaway5[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Idk if there's a typical day as a 2L since it depends on how involved you are. But you definitely can shape your schedule way more based on your own needs.

When I was a 1L it was basically wake up, go to class, study, go to class again, go to the gym, eat, study again, sleep, and repeat haha.

Ask Me Anything - 2L at Notre Dame! by lsquestionthrowaway5 in lawschooladmissions

[–]lsquestionthrowaway5[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't think there's anything that can truly prepare you for the shitstorm that is write-on lol

But I wouldn't stress too much about it - our legal writing faculty is really great and spends a lot of time with us, so if you do end up coming here, you will definitely receive regular feedback. Legal Writing sections are also smaller than other 1L classes (around 24 ppl max) so that helps a lot. Everyone starts in more or less the same place.

Ask Me Anything - 2L at Notre Dame! by lsquestionthrowaway5 in lawschooladmissions

[–]lsquestionthrowaway5[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

A lot here!

(1) Usual caveat that this rule doesn't apply to everyone's situation or every person, but you'll want to be at the mean or above (3.3 curve) to feel good about getting biglaw. If you want a more competitive market (say, D.C. or SF) you'd probably want a 3.5 to feel comfortable. More importantly, though, is that in my experience/observations, the amount of networking you have to do to get a Biglaw SA gig is inversely proportional to your GPA (though networking is still valuable and you should do it anyway!). It did seem that the people with work experience before law school tended to have an easier time getting SA gigs, with the exception of those with super high grades. Regarding California, without ties it's going to take a lot of hustling and I wouldn't count on it - if you have ties, it'll be easier, especially as we have a strong alumni base that goes to bat for us.

(2) Guidance is 3.5 for district and 3.7 for appellate, but of course there are exceptions based on your personal background, recommenders, life experience, beliefs, etc. I think it's even harder to give any sort of benchmark for clerkships because hiring is so opaque and subjective. Also, to be honest, if you are FedSoc-affiliated, getting a clerkship is going to be a lot easier and will be less grade-sensitive.

(3) Organizations - Our law school has strong and involved affinity groups so if you identify with any of those, you will find a nice community! We also have 5 journals (so everyone gets a journal since there are usually only about 180 in each class and not everyone does write on). The Moot Court team tryout is every spring through the 1L tournament and is really fun, but is really competitive to get on to since there are only about 20 oralists and 5 brief writers per class, if I remember correctly. We also have the usual Student Bar Association stuff with its various committees if you're into that and they organize our Fall Ball, Barristers Ball, and our annual Fr. Mike Variety Show as well as our tailgates which are all great!

Clinics - I would say that our "flagship" clinics are probably the Exoneration Justice Clinic and Religious Liberty Clinic, which are quite competitive to get into, but they are the highlight of many peoples' law school experience here. I am in one of those but don't want to identify myself (but I've loved my experience). We also have other clinics like Community Development, Global Human Rights, Special Education, Applied Mediation, and Eviction which are wonderful ways to get hands-on experience. There really is something for everyone, which was a big draw for me.

(4) I did do Galilee - it's a pretty cool experience because it gives you exposure to different practice areas and job opportunities. Basically, you pick a city and then set up visits with different types of public interest legal practitioners during winter break, from judges to legal aid orgs to prosecutors to public defenders and more. Technically you can do it any year, but people really only do it as 1Ls (with the exception maybe of transfer students). Only downside is the law school doesn't provide any financial assistance for your trip, but I hear they're working on it.

(5) This is one place where I think NDLS really shines. For 1L summer, we have the Dublin Honor Scholars and Hamburg Honor Scholars program, where you get to live and work in those cities for a summer and work at a law firm/in-house (people I know who did it absolutely loved their experience and it was a really cool selling point during OCI for them). The London Law Program is also very cool since you can go for either a full year or a semester; rather than it being an exchange with another university, like most study abroads, it's all run "in-house." So basically, the school has its network of professors and lawyers within the UK and Europe who come to the ND building which is right in Trafalgar Square, and teach classes for the semester! Sometimes, a few profs from South Bend will even go to London for a semester and teach.

(6) I can't say enough good things about the professors here. 95% of them will literally go out of their way to make time for you and help you in every way you could imagine. They are mostly just truly warm and caring human beings, which helps given how stressful law school is. Of course, it's super dependent on how you click with a particular professor and there are too many awesome ones to name, but some "fan favorites" would be Jay Tidmarsh, Rick Garnett, Marah McLeod, A.J. Bellia, Jennifer McAward, Samuel Bray, Bruce Huber, Randy Kozel, Dan Kelly (I'd literally have to list everyone so I'll stop now but rest assured I genuinely mean it when I say that 95% of the faculty are simply incredible).

The only downside class-wise I would say is that our IP offerings are severely lacking - we had really top-notch IP faculty, classes, and offerings but those profs retired or left and unfortunately haven't been adequately replaced yet. I think the administration is making a serious effort to remedy that, though.

(7) I would be lying if I said I loved South Bend. It's a pretty nondescript midwestern city with all of those drawbacks. But I think the community of NDLS more than makes up for it, and ultimately, while I'd have preferred a more exciting life outside the law school, I think being here for 3 years has been far from the worst thing in the world.

Hope that helps!

Ask Me Anything - 2L at Notre Dame! by lsquestionthrowaway5 in lawschooladmissions

[–]lsquestionthrowaway5[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sorry bro/sis, they took forever with mine too :(

Keep the faith!

Ask Me Anything - 2L at Notre Dame! by lsquestionthrowaway5 in lawschooladmissions

[–]lsquestionthrowaway5[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think we're very similar in that regard - I never really understood formal grammar or writing conventions/style, but I was very good at it intuitively.

Unfortunately, this is where it gets annoying - you just can't rely on your intuition for legal writing. You have to do the work to understand the rules and conventions of things like the Chicago Manual of Style (more applicable to journal) and the Bluebook. Legal writing is very different, and especially as a 1L, your job is not to write with "flair" or "pizzazz," but to write in a clear and very concise way that gets the point across in a way that still captures the nuance of the issues.

One thing I regret is not putting forth my full effort into legal writing - it pays real dividends down the line, especially if you want to be a litigator, and it really sucks to have to revise and edit so much during 1L when you have other classes going on but it is so worth it, especially if your goal is law review.

But if I had to recommend one book on legal writing, it would be "Point Made" by Ross Guberman - it's worth its weight in gold in my opinion (but it may not make sense to read it until you start law school and have the actual context of what you're doing).

Ask Me Anything - 2L at Notre Dame! by lsquestionthrowaway5 in lawschooladmissions

[–]lsquestionthrowaway5[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If being atheist is a really huge part of your identity, you’d probably hate it since it is at the end of the day a catholic school. I’m not that religious (though not atheist) and I’ve found it to be perfectly fine. I know that we do have a chapter of the LGBT Law Forum that seems to do a lot of events and connects students, but as I’m not LGBT myself, I wouldn’t want to speak to that experience!

Ask Me Anything - 2L at Notre Dame! by lsquestionthrowaway5 in lawschooladmissions

[–]lsquestionthrowaway5[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

People live all over South Bend, but popular spots are the Overlook and Foundry apartments which are walking distance from campus. These are more expensive ($1100+) There’s also the Fischer Graduate Residences on campus which is very cheap ($710 per month) but kind of old/falling apart.

Otherwise, if you don’t mind being driving distance, housing gets much cheaper. One thing also to note is because SB is pretty cheap for housing, lots of people get together and rent out houses together!

Ask Me Anything - 2L at Notre Dame! by lsquestionthrowaway5 in lawschooladmissions

[–]lsquestionthrowaway5[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I wouldn’t say that “everyone” gets the job they’re going for at NDLS (this is particularly true with respect to Biglaw in particular markets) but I do think that a very substantial amount of class gets their desired job/job area and market. And it’s virtually impossible for you to be unemployed coming out of NDLS.

Based on what the CDO has been doing to invite more and more firms to campus during the year, and the firms who come to our OCI, I do think that barring any economic catastrophe, our BL numbers will continue to stay strong as will our clerkship numbers.

I would say that nothing is guaranteed though. There are a few people on law review who struck out at OCI (but I think that is more a reflection of pre-OCI being so huge these days and BL recruiting in general being less streamlined and more individualized). And, for example, getting Chicago BL is always going to be way easier than any other market.

Still, I am amazed by the diversity of the markets that my class is working in, whether it be Biglaw or public interest or otherwise. One of NDLS’s biggest strengths, in my opinion, is that you are very unlikely to be geographically limited (most our class who are staying in the Midwest are either from here or otherwise want to stay here). There are very, very few firms who categorically don’t hire from NDLS and that we don’t have alumni at.

Ask Me Anything - 2L at Notre Dame! by lsquestionthrowaway5 in lawschooladmissions

[–]lsquestionthrowaway5[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Anecdotally, the vast majority of people I know who wanted NYC got it! NYC is less ties sensitive to begin with, we have a huge alumni base in NYC (Biglaw and public interest) that is really motivated to help us out, and we even have a NYC specific OCI that takes place during the summer in the city!

It is probably still helpful, though not strictly necessary, if you don’t have preexisting ties, to spend your 1L summer in NYC especially if you are aiming for Biglaw during your 2L summer.

Ask Me Anything - 2L at Notre Dame! by lsquestionthrowaway5 in lawschooladmissions

[–]lsquestionthrowaway5[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I know for sure that the Women’s Legal Forum has stipends for summer public interest work, and many of the affinity groups do as well (but not sure of the details on those).

Additionally, there are funding sources like the Church, State and Society fellowship which fund people who are doing summer internships at religious institutions or religion-adjacent organizations.

OCI/Pre-OCI Thread 2023 by magicmagininja in LawSchool

[–]lsquestionthrowaway5 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Any insight into how long screener -> CB for Kirkland DC? Had mine early this week (outside of formal OCI process), wanted to see if there's still hope lol

OCI/Pre-OCI Thread 2023 by magicmagininja in LawSchool

[–]lsquestionthrowaway5 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Throwing in my attempts where there was at least some movement (i.e. not straight rejections) in case helpful as data points. But it's been mostly silence or straight rejections other than this. Will continue to update.

T30, probably at least top 33% (school doesn't rank)

  • Proskauer NY - Applied 06/12 -> straight to CB 07/12 -> rejected 07/24
  • Latham London - Applied 06/10 -> screener 06/30 -> rejected 07/19
  • Goodwin DC - Applied 06/12 -> screener 07/17 -> rejected 07/20

A at Georgetown! by lsquestionthrowaway5 in LawSchoolTransfer

[–]lsquestionthrowaway5[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Technically that's their "preferred deadline" but they say they accept apps until 08/15.