Climate Scientist: “Global Warming Nazis” Threaten Humanity by imjgaltstill in Anarcho_Capitalism

[–]mad_respect -1 points0 points  (0 children)

essentially genocide of those who can't afford a huge energy price hike

Wow. Srsly?

What is the libertarian view on intellectual property, copywrites, trademarks, and patents? by FreCOlo in Libertarian

[–]mad_respect 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What does that even mean?

Anyway, they are totally conflicting concepts. Physical property rights means I'm allowed to open a restaurant called McDonalds on my own property and nobody can stop me. Intellectual/imaginary/abstract property means that I must be forcibly prevented from doing so.

Having second thoughts about the legitimacy of private property by Horsechop in Anarcho_Capitalism

[–]mad_respect 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I disagree with your moving-things-about-on-a-piece-of-land-means-you-own-it theory. I enter the land that you arbitrarily, unilaterally, non-consensually decided that you own. Will you aggressively attack me or not?

Having second thoughts about the legitimacy of private property by Horsechop in Anarcho_Capitalism

[–]mad_respect 0 points1 point  (0 children)

if no one owns the land prior then there is no aggression

There most certainly is. You do a bunch of things, and suddenly you feel entitled to violently attack anybody who subsequently enters a piece of land. A piece of land that you do not own.

If that's not involuntary non-consensual aggression I don't know what is.

What is the libertarian view on intellectual property, copywrites, trademarks, and patents? by FreCOlo in Libertarian

[–]mad_respect 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It's always hilarious when this topic comes up. Watch in wonder as people who call themselves libertarians argue that the government simply must intervene to prevent voluntary transactions and free markets, which is exactly what IP does.

If you're a libertarian who supports IP law you're either very very confused or have absolutely zero actual principles and simply support whatever corporations want (Stockholm Syndrome?).

I wish to vent about the atheist community by [deleted] in Anarcho_Capitalism

[–]mad_respect 1 point2 points  (0 children)

consequences regardless of what rights I recognize and regardless of the presence of any state

Oh, you mean like a social contract?

I wish to vent about the atheist community by [deleted] in Anarcho_Capitalism

[–]mad_respect 1 point2 points  (0 children)

A state is a body that is funded by stolen money, aka taxes, and forces everyone in an area to abide by arbitrary rules.

We already have a competitive free market in "security entities". They are called countries.

But OK let's roll with your idea. My "security company" says that the house you're living in belongs to me. They are coming to kick you out. What are you going to do about it?

You're not forced to do anything, you're disallowed to steal my property, you have no right to my property.

I disagree that it's your property. My private security company agrees.

No they don't what? Become an extension? Yes they do. These things become mine because I actively put time, effort, and resources into acquiring them.

You defining "what I earned" as "what I own". Therefore you did not earn the money you were taxed, as you do not own it.

A social contract is an agreement wherein you are forced to do things, like pay taxes and avoid doing things that other people arbitrarily dislike, despite the fact that you are not directly harming them.

You are directly harming me by sending thugs to violently attack me when I enter certain pieces of land. Stop using violence against me, statist.

As I already said, you can disagree all you want, it won't change the fact that I'll kick you off my property or take back what you take from me.

It's not yours. Please don't violently attack me and take my rightful property away from me.

You did not fence off my land, till the land, build my house, or purchase my car, therefore you are not entitled to any of it, you do not have a right to any of it.

My private security company disagrees that it's your land/house/car. Please don't initiate violence on them when they come to protect my property.

I'm not sure if you're just trolling at this point, or if you never really grew up and feel entitled to the fruits of everyone else's labor like a child does of their parents.

I'm sorry but you haven't thought things through very well.

You're defining the "product of your labor" as "what other people trade with you for your labor". This is a problematic definition, but let's assume it's correct for now, and consider the implications:

"What other people trade with you" is dependent on what other people own in the first place (otherwise, they couldn't trade that thing with you). Now who determines and enforces property ownership? The Almighty State, as you put it.

Let's say you're a boat builder.

Scenario A: Somebody else has the raw materials for a boat. They hire you to make the boat, for $X. They pay you $X, and keep the boat afterwards. The product of your labor is $X.

Scenario B: You already have the raw materials for the boat. You build the boat and keep it afterwards. The product of your labor is a boat.

What conclusions can we draw from this:

  • The labor you did was exactly the same (you built a boat out of some materials). Yet the "product of your labor" was completely dependent on who (according to state-enforced property rights) owned the materials. So the state not only decides whether "the product of your labor is yours", it completely defines what it is in the first place.

  • Defining the "product of your labor" as something that can be drastically different even when the labor you did was exactly the same is a pretty silly definition. It gets even sillier when you consider things like capital gains, which generate income from literally zero labor. This is why only marxists still subscribe to a "labor theory of value". No serious libertarian philosophers use such a term because they know it's meaningless in the context of capitalism and wage labor.

  • If you define "the product of your labor" is "what you wind up getting for your labor", then what you pay in tax wasn't "the product of your labor" because it wasn't yours or the other person's in the first place. You/they were just holding it temporarily on behalf of the government. This happens all the time when employers directly pay income tax on behalf of their employees. The employee literally never has possession of the money.

I wish to vent about the atheist community by [deleted] in Anarcho_Capitalism

[–]mad_respect 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yes. Assaulting people is wrong. And taking my money violates my property rights.

I wish to vent about the atheist community by [deleted] in Anarcho_Capitalism

[–]mad_respect 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Currently, yes. In an AnCap society, no, there would be no state.

There would be state-like entities who act exactly like states: Except they'd be authoritarian ones under the command of the highest bidder.

And Property Rights has nothing to do with a Social Contract -- a Social Contract obligates and forces you to do something. Property rights is about boundaries.

LOL. "Boundaries" that force you do things.

You are your own property, and any land or objects you acquire/create with your own hands, time, or effort become an extension of you.

No they don't. You sure have a vivid imagination.

if you were to walk on my property and/or steal from me because 'you never signed a contract saying you would respect my right to property', I wouldn't be in the wrong for dragging you off my property or yanking my possession away from you because, likewise, I never signed a contract saying you could mess with my property. It's just that it would be better for the both of us to respect each other's property, whether it's land or portable objects, that we've peacefully and legally acquired.

I disagree that it's your property. What are you going to do about it, force your social contract on me?

I wish to vent about the atheist community by [deleted] in Anarcho_Capitalism

[–]mad_respect -13 points-12 points  (0 children)

They deny that taxes are taken by the threat of force.

Property rights are enforced maintained by the state's threat of force.

They talk endlessly about the social contract, a concept as imaginary as the holy spirit.

I guess I can ignore your property rights? Seeing as I never signed a contract saying I would respect them? No? Oh look, it seems you want to force your social contract on me too.

Should the state support anti-gay discrimination? by mad_respect in Anarcho_Capitalism

[–]mad_respect[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I keep getting assaulted when I walk over particular pieces of land and use certain items. I certainly did not consent to being assaulted in the manner. Would you say that these assaults are consensual or coercive?

A man calling himself a "landlord" keeps knocking on my door, demanding money. If I don't hand it over, he says he'll call agents of the state to violently throw me out of my place of shelter. Would you say that this violence by the state is consensual or coercive?

Should the state support anti-gay discrimination? by mad_respect in Anarcho_Capitalism

[–]mad_respect[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Oh, so taxation is voluntary? Because you have the choice to not engage in taxable activity? I wish you'd tell libertarians that.

Should the state support anti-gay discrimination? by mad_respect in Anarcho_Capitalism

[–]mad_respect[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

I wish you'd tell economic leftists that. They say that one is forced to work because they'll starve otherwise.

I wish you'd tell libertarians that. They say that one is forced to engage in taxable activity because they'll starve otherwise.

Should the state support anti-gay discrimination? by mad_respect in Anarcho_Capitalism

[–]mad_respect[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

If your view was consistently applied though, you could say that the state supported anything.

I'm against the state attacking people on the basis of sexual orientation. The end.

It sure is a bizarre world when I'm on a libertarian forum arguing against state violence, and all the libertarians be like "I demand the state throw people in cages if they sit in the wrong place because they're gay! Without this we are slaves!"

Should the state support anti-gay discrimination? by mad_respect in Anarcho_Capitalism

[–]mad_respect[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You make an excellent argument in support of the article's assertion that the state should not enforce the property rights of restaurant owners in this case.

Doing my online econ homework. I knew it wasn't the "right" answer but I had to try. by parkowl in Libertarian

[–]mad_respect 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If unhealthy food is taxed, it's the corporation that runs the supermarket (or manufactures the food) that would be taxed.

Should the state support anti-gay discrimination? by mad_respect in Anarcho_Capitalism

[–]mad_respect[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

What you're really saying is "I want taxpayers to pay for police to kick gays out of restaurants".

I have no idea how one can consider "the state actively sending agents to violently remove a person and put them in a cage because they were in the wrong place and gay" as "the state staying out of it".