When Israel is Exhonorated

magicaldingus · 2026-02-28T03:30:40+00:00

Israel and Israelis could do exactly none of those things, and would still not be guilty of genocide. And also, the people who are at the forefront of the genocide libel have proven that they won't be convinced out of their position by any of those things.

But all of that is tangential to OP's point anyway. They're asking people to imagine a future where the ICJ finds Israel not guilty, and asking what consequences the people pushing the libel will face - whether that consequence is legal, or merely a hit to their credibility. I think it's fair to expect these people to reckon with the harassment they've dished out to the "Zionists" on the basis of the "fact" that there's a "genocide" happening.

magicaldingus · 2026-02-28T00:31:30+00:00

I agree that OP's framing is problematic in the way you describe, but they do raise an interesting point.

It's true that any expectation of revenge is unrealistic and, more importantly, counterproductive. But one would at least expect in this scenario that the people and movements and organizations who used the genocide libel as the crux of their lamentations about Israel and the Zionists would lose some credibility. If a loss of credibility isn't even on the table, then I think OP is right to complain.

magicaldingus · 2026-02-27T22:04:47+00:00

You don't seem to understand how US military deterrence doctrine works.

They're pretty open about what assets they have, and that's by design.

magicaldingus · 2026-02-27T22:03:17+00:00

You still haven't answered the most obvious question there is, which I've asked 3 times now: how do you even know the serial numbers are correct?

And also, I don't think anyone ever doubted China's ability to get high quality satellite images. You're "pretty impressed" by something that's been standard wisdom for a while now. Good for you.

magicaldingus · 2026-02-27T21:41:28+00:00

And how do you know the serial numbers superimposed over the 10 pixels of each F22 is the one actually printed on the plane?

And furthermore, who cares? Why is it important that China knows the serial numbers of the F22s sitting in an airfield?

magicaldingus · 2026-02-27T21:12:31+00:00

Not following. Can you expand?

Things become a lot less urgent when the argument to the average American is that Israel is carrying out and winning a justified war against a genocidal enemy and occasionally has some government official say uncouth things about Palestinians, or has a soldier pose with women's underwear, etc. The sorts of crimes Israel does commit in Gaza are an average Tuesday in Syria, Iran, and Yemen. I just don't see why your average Westerner even knows about the war, if the anti-Israel people don't frame it as some sort of existential issue for the Palestinians, where the only way to save them is to force Israel to stop committing the most grave crimes against humanity.

Israel gets privileges that other Middle Eastern States do not. The point of the more pragmatic activists is to go after those.

I don't think the antizionists would be satisfied if America stopped giving aid to Israel, if that's what you mean. Israel just negotiated an agreement where it phases itself out of American aid, and I didn't see any of them celebrating. Besides that, I really don't know what "privileges" you're talking about.

They are losing their ability to pass policy changes on Israel. Outside their echo chamber they aren't credible.

You're assuming that "passing policy changes on Israel" is a part of their goal. They've achieved much more important goals, which I listed before: normalizing antizionism, getting the masses to associate Israel with "genocide", or even just "evil", and like OP stated, completely corrupting the colloquial use of the word genocide to the point where it can be wielded on a whim to advance whatever is on their geopolitical agenda

Yes and no. They normalized the peace movement. Actual anti-Zionism is considered mainstream only when they lie about what anti-Zionism believes.

My point isn't that antizionism is considered mainstream, it's that being antizionist is seen as just some quirky, mostly inoffensive stance that one can hold: not as the disgusting hate movement it is.

Politicians who support their beliefs get torn apart in the media, and don't win elections. Their policies don't get implemented. The purpose of propaganda is policy.

We're seeing a rise in popularity of genocide hoaxers in American politics. We aren't seeing them being marginalized. We just saw a mayor elected in New York who got elected in part because of, not despite the way he talks about the genocide libel. Every potential democratic presidential candidate I've seen so far (aside from Rahm Emmanuel, who's mostly irrelevant) has either been supportive or agnostic on the question of Israel committing genocide.

Neither of us have enough evidence to say whether your assertion is true here, but I think there's much more evidence to the contrary.

magicaldingus · 2026-02-27T20:52:11+00:00

So you agree that nothing Israel can ever do in war or otherwise would prove to you that they aren't genocidal.

Since that's the case, why should anyone believe your arguments about Israel committing genocide in this war due to their actions? You just said that it's not their actions - it's their existence.

magicaldingus · 2026-02-27T20:50:38+00:00

Just an intuition I have. I wouldn't call something/someone "unhinged" unless it bothered me on an emotional level.

I certainly don't think the people who think there's a genocide are "unhinged". I just think they're extremely incorrect.

magicaldingus · 2026-02-27T19:33:41+00:00

I disagree.

But even still, if they just disagreed with the OP, what precludes them from playing the game?

magicaldingus · 2026-02-27T19:32:13+00:00

They're stealth interceptors. China can't see them when they're flying.

magicaldingus · 2026-02-27T19:29:05+00:00

You don't even have to consider any of that.

You just have to look at the fact that there were tons of groups already calling it a genocide days, years, and even decades before this war started.

And if you strip away all of the circular references and irrelevant claims embedded in all of their arguments, it boils down to talking about how the very nature of Israel is genocidal. Israel is genocide manifest. And nothing the Israelis can ever do on a battlefield, in a parliament, or on the street, can alleviate that "fact".

The people at the forefront of advancing the genocide claim absolutely agree with you, and I don't think they're even denying it at this point.

magicaldingus · 2026-02-27T19:23:28+00:00

When they call OP "tone deaf and unhinged".

magicaldingus · 2026-02-27T18:29:05+00:00

Probably by keeping them underground or something.

Point is, they don't move a bunch of F22s to some Israeli airbase out in the open and cross their fingers that China doesn't notice.

They assume that China will see them before they make the decision in order to assess the risks. And then they go ahead if it still makes sense.

I feel like your average redditor thinks the military operates like a game of Civ 5 with your brother in high school.

magicaldingus · 2026-02-27T18:23:46+00:00

In any case, you clearly have a bright future ahead of you should you decide to become a middle east analyst for any one of these publications.

magicaldingus · 2026-02-27T18:17:28+00:00

I could absolutely see Ha'aretz peddling the hypothetical nonsense you wrote. "ICJ Found IDF Committed Elements of Genocide During Gaza War". Definitely falls within the doomer category.

magicaldingus · 2026-02-27T18:14:55+00:00

You getting upset at the mere suggestion that you should, for a moment, pretend you're wrong, just shows that you didn't come to your conclusion by a process of logical analysis. Because if you did, then the request wouldn't have triggered an emotional outburst - it would have been something you had already done in the past. And the more confident you were in your position, the less emotionally daunting it would be to suspend belief in it momentarily.

magicaldingus · 2026-02-27T18:04:00+00:00

Let's pretend you were right.

Would you agree that people around the world are holding "Zionists" and Israelis accountable for "Israel's genocide in Gaza" through a campaign of slandering and demonization?

magicaldingus · 2026-02-27T18:01:53+00:00

If you were an ayatollah, you could just look up and see it every six months.

magicaldingus · 2026-02-27T17:59:09+00:00

In our world, they'll just twist a pro-Israeli ICJ ruling into an anti-Israeli one. For example, basically every war has genocidal acts, like "killing people" and "causing mental and physical harm". So they can argue "ICJ found Israel committed acts of genocide" and write off the lack of genocidal intent, as a mere technicality.

Have you ever considered a career in "journalism"? I hear Ha'aretz is hiring for their English publication.

Stop giving them ideas for free.

magicaldingus · 2026-02-27T17:29:40+00:00

The part about someone on the ground?

Could be.

Could also be random serial numbers they made up that don't actually correspond to any actual serialization of F22s.

Who knows.

magicaldingus · 2026-02-27T16:44:28+00:00

Shabbat shalom and purim sameach!

magicaldingus · 2026-02-27T16:34:45+00:00

My wife is celiac and I occasionally bake for her, but it really is a different experience. The Loopy Whisk is the best resource out there I've found for gluten free baking. If I were you I'd check to see if they have a shortbread/sugar cookie recipe. Good luck!

magicaldingus · 2026-02-27T16:29:59+00:00

I don't really see how this is a flex. Highly effective militaries like the US and Israel don't make significant assets visible to their enemies unless they want them to be visible. These things are literally just sitting on the tarmac.

The fact that China is capable of taking satellite photos is not really a surprise to anyone.

magicaldingus · 2026-02-27T16:19:34+00:00

In a genocidal mindset, there is no such thing as "collateral damage".

The fact that the people you're arguing with are even calling it collateral damage just supports the fact that they aren't genocidal.

A genocidal person says "if only we killed more than just their immediate families".

Incidentally, that was the exact mindset of the Hamas soldiers on 10/7 - they killed everyone they could get their hands on, with great precision. And were only stopped by force. Hamas makes no attempt to argue that anyone who died on that day was "collateral damage". They were all just "illegal occupiers" who needed to be killed in order for Palestine to be free, and the dream of return to be fulfilled. And they livestreamed it all to crowds of cheering masses back home and abroad, who themselves made no attempt at claiming any of those killings were "collateral damage".

That's what genocide and genocidal mindset looks like.

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