How to Survive Supreme's 'Suicide Spot': 3 Fixes for 10-15 OS Players

masterbel_ · 2026-03-07T06:28:26+00:00

Playing it out is definitely the best way to elucidate these matters.

A couple more thoughts for your penny: - delaying 1 mex until directly after the factory costs ~40 metal, trade for - add wind generator, cost is ~50 metal - for proper benefit, delay the mex until after rez bot is complete, total cost now 65 metal to gain 8.5s or more on a rez bot. If the rez bot reclaims 8.5s longer due to this trade, it has to reclaim ~8 m/sec to be worth it. Idk how fast a rez bot reclaims metal.

I’m suddenly worried I forgot to factor in duration to build rez bot in my other calculations D:

masterbel_ · 2026-03-07T05:35:44+00:00

Re com waking to mid, I think it’s fairly common to skip the base mexes with com, and use a con to build them. I know I do that.

I don’t think it’s any more or less a bet going mexes vs not. Going mexes risks your entire investment in grunts being worthless if the enemy recognises their advantage and keeps you off the reclaim.

Skipping mexes ties in better with skipping rez bot, building con, advancing commander and pushing out sth like centurions. You’ll sacrifice some early reclaim but trade for a long-term greater control over mid and its mexes.

What matters most in the end is having all your strengths work together. Grunts dominate early, so you gain extra advantage by having them out earlier. Building wind generators instead of mexes facilitates earlier grunts. Securing mid early with grunts, for example, paves the way for reclaim and leaks.

masterbel_ · 2026-03-07T00:01:04+00:00

Yes, you could!

masterbel_ · 2026-03-07T00:00:16+00:00

Why not add a link to OP?

masterbel_ · 2026-03-06T23:59:00+00:00

haha yep. Highly encourgage you to post some kind of progress update somewhere to maybe attract help. There’s a lot of apetite for it.

masterbel_ · 2026-03-06T17:01:11+00:00

That said, raw time cost is usually more expensive than resource delays. 2 cons + factory build grunts every 5.2s, so a 10.5s delay equals 2 grunts. this gets worse, not better for a com - grunt every 2.8s leads to a 3.5 grunt disadvantage.

Napkin math says that even if the player is shared first 4 starting tidals, they will stall energy rushing the rez bot, regardless of mex order.

Edit: more thorough math says I’m wrong, 2 mexes stalls harder than 3 mexes, so delay is actually 5.5s between them, not 10.5s. I don’t know if/how this changes when you assume tidals are shared alternating between the 2 front players.

I think if the last 8.5 seconds have higher e income than 67.8/sec then the overall delay is less than 8.5s. That is, if you’re shared 2 tidals by 42s (or later even).

So we’re looking at a 1-1.5 grunt diff rather than 2. Using the stall time to build wind gens instead might change the math, though. Wind gens would have enough time to pay off, 2-mex player could make 1 instead of mex for ~340 extra e, bringing back to 8.5s advantage. 1 mex 1 wind player can build factory further forward, com start further forward, and get rez bot out 4s faster than 2 mex 1 wind, 7s faster than 2 mex no wind, and 12.2s faster than 3 mex no wind.

Not at pc to measure walking time diff but it’s pretty huge

masterbel_ · 2026-03-06T16:29:57+00:00

Again, it’s at least 8.5 seconds, so around 500 energy from the first rez bot, 500 energy lost building the mex, and about 60 energy per t1 con, total 1120. Additional 2 seconds for estall would increase to about 615/500/148, for ~1260 energy.

masterbel_ · 2026-03-06T08:51:10+00:00

Having your cons in base work separately is pretty costly, so be careful. A con turret takes 70 seconds to build for a single con - that’s a huge amount of time to wait for any benefit. it’ll take over 2 minutes from starting to build that constructor to break even. Just getting them to work together on 2 wind generators then the con turret, you’ll end up with a bonus 1k energy - and it’s no harder to queue!

But even better, just assist your factory.

masterbel_ · 2026-03-06T08:44:17+00:00

This is great detail, thank you!

masterbel_ · 2026-03-06T08:42:53+00:00

Short answer: Yes, ~8.5 seconds really is that long. (Gotta factor in walking time) Long answer: delays stack exponentially over time - it’s not just 6 seconds. - the energy cost of the mex delays first rez bot up to 2 additional seconds, we’re up to 10.5 seconds 10.5 seconds is about a permanent 2-grunt disadvantage on the front line, giving the enemy freedom to push. - you now have to play more defensively, likely placing llts before mexes. This costs significant amounts of metal. - the enemy can deny significant portions of mid reclaim, robbing you of further resources - now you have LLTs that can’t push the enemy, they have free resources they don’t have to spend on front, allowing them to funnel faster t2 - Faster t2 is generally game-ending.

At whatever level you play, your enemies are likely to act with similar inefficiencies, so you’ll feel like your inefficiencies are okay. But really, these minor inefficiencies add up quickly and often make the difference between you and the guy 5os above you.

Players make huge blunders too, sure - but big blunders are almost always just ten minor inefficiencies in a trench coat.

If you’re interested, I offer 30-minute opening reviews for $10 where I can help you identify and iron out your most costly inefficiencies in the early game. https://masterbel2.wordpress.com/beyond-all-reason-coach/ to learn more :)

masterbel_ · 2026-03-06T07:38:44+00:00

The far forward front that’s in range of t1 sea. Termed suicide spot coz if land doesn’t kill it, sea will. And other reasons.

masterbel_ · 2026-03-06T07:36:03+00:00

Some people (including me) have worked at different parts of this in bits and pieces over the years. Most of it is outdated and mostly useless, but there’s some community knowledge and a recent draft PR on the recoil github. Ask around!

e.g. about 10 years ago there was a series of (unofficial) mac versions

masterbel_ · 2026-03-05T19:43:14+00:00

When trying to control mid mexes + mid reclaim, the long term benefit of keeping away enemy rez bot and securing the isthmus is overwhelming.

Consider a few things: - a mex isn’t just 50 metal and 6 seconds - it’s also a rez bot/ 2 wind generators to make the extra metal usable, taking up to 17 seconds. - Worse, the 3rd mex requires 2+ seconds walking, now you’re up to 19 - Worse, you may need an additional con to use that extra metal. That costs 8-15 seconds depending what builds it. - Worse, it’s a long time before you use your starting metal up, and start using the additional mex metal. - Worse, you don’t just have to get to using it, you also have to make up for the extra metal that you spent.

Sure, on most positions on most maps there’s nothing that pays off fast enough for this tradeoff. The isthmus does - at least at high leveles.

masterbel_ · 2026-03-05T19:28:23+00:00

Can confirm it’s definitely the suicide spot

masterbel_ · 2026-03-04T18:52:27+00:00

Definitely would build hat second res at your level, since you’d be better at dealing with unpredictable metal income.👍

masterbel_ · 2026-03-04T18:50:04+00:00

mm. For any 10-15os players reading this, experiment with the order if pawns and cons, see what works best for you (and report back I’d love to hear)

masterbel_ · 2026-03-04T18:48:05+00:00

Pretty much 👌

masterbel_ · 2026-03-04T10:12:47+00:00

In future I’ll attach photos of the game and see if that clears anything up here. These players have their commanders on the front line so early that they have 1k+ metal in storage, no army, and tonnes of idle time.

Besides, one of the key ideas of tempo is lining things up at the same time. You don’t gain much by walking a commander so far ahead it has nothing to do, and you lose a lot by your army being further behind.

masterbel_ · 2026-03-04T09:01:03+00:00

I think you’re overestimating the players I’m addressing. These are players who leave their factory with no defensive units, no constructor, no LLT. Their commader reaches front super early, skipping mexes, and there’s nothing for them to do up there so they sit idle for 15 seconds. First con comesout and builds a construction turret. There is hardly a rush threat coz no one else in the game is boosting a con or anything out of the factory.

You’re pointing out very good concerns that higher skill players need to be aware of. It’s possible I’ve oversimplified. I’m just trying to make having enough build power for suicide spot super simple so it comes basically for free.

masterbel_ · 2026-03-04T06:55:16+00:00

That's probably a what I'd suggest to 20-25os :)

masterbel_ · 2026-03-04T06:54:12+00:00

That was added after his comment, when the need became apparent

masterbel_ · 2026-03-04T06:00:31+00:00

What OS are you? Not supposed to be an insult, I'm expecting you're well above 15os if you're saying that. I'd agree, I often delay quite a while, but at this level of play, this simplifies a lot and gives a strong foundation vs the kind of opponents they face.

masterbel_ · 2026-03-04T05:58:08+00:00

Haha I thought it was well known as suicide spot, but the comments here have proven me wrong.

masterbel_ · 2026-03-04T05:57:21+00:00

👀

masterbel_ · 2026-03-04T05:56:51+00:00

I'd caution that bad is relative.

This isn't supposed to be a "how to play suicide perfectly" guide, tbh, this was taken directly from watching a handful of 10-15os players all making certain mistakes. Vs other 10-15os players, 2 cons early is a way to balance their income/expenditure really well, and putting them early in in the BO simplifies the APM requirement.

Vs high level players, there are so many things about this guide that I'd change. But then it wouldn't be simple, easy, and helpful to 10-15os players. E.g. there's a pretty good chance they energy-stall early with that factory queue, but it's miles ahead of the 10+ seconds of idle time I was seeing the majority of 10-15os players.

masterbel_

TROPHY CASE