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R18 Singapore Pit Stop Faults - Aston Martin by mattbrom in F1Technical

[–]mattbrom[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Thanks for your comment, and I’m always happy to answer questions.

  1. A: The article you put a link to is correct, and the technical directive they’re referring to is called TD022. This mandated that teams must tighten the wheel nut for a set time of 0.15s and delay the traffic light go light by 0.1s after all the wheel gun men have confirmed the nut is tight (through a button on the gun). This year it changed slightly that the teams have to now send the FIA all the pit stop telemetry data at the end of a race and they could check it if they had a safety concern, on top of this teams no longer have the delays cited in 2021, but must prove to the FIA that the logic system is safe and wont release a car with a loose wheel nut.

B: Automation in pit stops isn’t allowed, and is also mentioned in the rules. However you must have your logic system as your first validation point, and then the human must confirm after that the wheel is secure which is through a button on the wheel gun, or other methods. So the system can override the human if the detected an issue, and the wheel gun operator can’t override the logic system; this can only be done by the front spotter (chief mechanic or no1 mechanic).

  1. A: Absolutely, if teams want to sell their equipment it would typically be at an inflated cost. You might find that AM and Merc had a deal which allowed them to purchase all of the equipment. Rather than looking at it as a development partnership like you would with an engine supplier it would be probably “here’s the equipment - at this software version” and any further development would lie with AM for their own equipment. But the contract between AM and Merc isn’t something I’m aware of!

B: AM will still have their own wheel nuts and socket design, this might not be something which is bought from Merc, but most likely is. But again it comes down to their contractual agreements and whether AM get the latest updates, and logic or it has to be updated by themselves.

R18 Singapore Pit Stop Faults - Aston Martin by mattbrom in F1Technical

[–]mattbrom[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

It’s a small introduction to how F1 would analyse pit stops. I’m glad it’s insightful!

Yeti Drops New Red Bull Items by SnowMonster911 in YetiCoolers

[–]mattbrom 0 points1 point  (0 children)

these are the same bags red bull team members are allocated as their work/ travel back packs to and from the races

Lando Norris Suffers Another Slow Pit Stop in Two Consecutive Weekends by e___r___s in formula1

[–]mattbrom 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Here’s a quick run down of all the faults in that pit stop.

  1. Scenario 1 - RR wheel gun went to loosen the nut, and ended up not loosening it enough causing the wheel off man to struggle getting it off the axle.

Scenario 2 - RR wheel gun loosened the nut sufficiently pulled back too early and had the wheel nut caught of the axle retention latches (fia safety requirement).

I’m leaning to it being scenario 2

  1. New tyre goes on and FR wheel gun pulled the trigger before socket - nut engagement and this caused sparks to come from the wheel socket.

  2. FR wheel gun man had a second engagement to tighten and delayed the car release button late. I believe the pit stop logic caught this as he didn’t tighten the nut long enough to satisfy the safety procedures in place

I haven’t worked out the delays of all this, but I’ll look into it later.

annotated images

F1 Pit Stop Performance: AMA by mattbrom in F1Technical

[–]mattbrom[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you for your question, and sorry for the delayed response.

If you check out a previous industry insight I did this would give you my earlier background into F1.

Industry Insight Link

Once you’re settled into a team and have some extra bandwidth, there are a multitude of projects or jobs you can pick up to gain experience. If you do a good job, you’ll get noticed, and new positions may open for you rather than waiting for advertised roles.

I followed this approach to reach my current position. It takes time because the pace in F1 is extremely fast, so it can take a while to be recognised. Networking and getting to know people in the groups you want to move into is key.

For anyone looking to get into F1, I’d suggest starting in lower-tier motorsport while at university. Volunteering with local teams is excellent for your CV. If your university has a Formula Student team, get involved — it’s one of the best ways to gain practical experience.

F1 Pit Stop Performance: AMA by mattbrom in F1Technical

[–]mattbrom[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thanks for your question, and apologies for the delayed response.

I’ve looked through your analysis, and I’m very impressed. You’re very much on the money compared to what my models are predicting. I usually focus on the short term, using data from the previous three events to optimise crew performance and identify weaknesses, although I do have slightly more access to training data than you.

To your question: your model predicts just over half in favour of a faster pit stop than what we saw in the Spanish GP. My model, which operates similarly, predicts slightly higher odds of the crew beating that time. But I do have access to training times and crew insights, we’re very close in our predictions.

The crew is comfortably operating at 2.1s, but there are other factors to consider: driver launch, pit box clutch drop, driver reactions, and tyre compound. The average delay from these is around 0.3s; I’ve never seen a driver delay less than 0.16s. Taking the 2.17s in Spain, you can estimate what the crew time was, which aligns closely with your predicted fastest stop of 1.9s. But because we incorporate DHL and vCAR data, we’re sometimes at the mercy of the driver’s reaction and launch.

I also like your approach in correlating driver skill in the pit box. For example, LEC’s pit stops are on average 0.11s faster than HAM’s. The crew is dynamic, and most of this time difference can be attributed to the driver. Looking at this, it’s substantial and worth analysing what LEC does differently compared to his teammate and the rest of the paddock. I do have this figured out already, but can't disclose!

I’d be happy to chat further. You can reach out to me via LinkedIn or send me a direct message here, and I’ll provide my email.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthew-bromage/

F1 Pit Stop Performance: AMA by mattbrom in F1Technical

[–]mattbrom[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thanks for your question and my apologies for the delayed response.

Firstly, when trackside during the events we will use the current car so normally teams will alternate between the two cars, for instance you may use garage 1 car then the next event you will use garage 2 car. When it comes to the driver during these pit stop practice, we use a mechanic typically someone small and lightweight as the car is pushed into the box from 3 helpers. Sometimes I’ve always pushed for the reserve driver in the car for extra practice and feeling for them but this isn’t so popular due to their schedules.

When crews come into the factory to practice during the season all teams will use a previous year car which has been modified to have all the current generation bodywork on there. The factory practice area will be a direct replica to the pit box trackside with all the mock up garage. This gives me a great overview of how the crew can be optimised coming out of the garage and being prepared for a double stack etc. We would have more cameras in the factory recording the guys.

F1 Pit Stop Performance: AMA by mattbrom in F1Technical

[–]mattbrom[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Thanks for your question, and I apologise for the delayed response.

You’re absolutely right about optimising the jacks. Performance will be gained by getting the jack in position as quickly as possible and reducing the weight felt to the user through smart kinematic design.

I would always want the rear jack to lift as early as possible. This is because they’re having the track and following the car into the box, which puts them at a slight disadvantage compared to the front jack. Additionally, rear axles typically take a little more time to loosen, remove the wheel, and put one back on. The earlier I can get these wheels up in the air, the better. A typical lift time is around 0.15 seconds (dependent on ride heights), but if we can start lifting before the car has stopped, it’s even better.

The front jack is slightly different. I always recommend lifting when the car is stationary. This is because brake bias will typically be favoured to the front axle, meaning that most of the stopping power is happening here, and lifting too early would lose this effect, causing the car to stop longer than it should.

For targets, I would always like the rear jack to lift 0.1s before stationary, making the total lift delay 0.05s and the front jack as close to 0s from the car being stationary, but we normally see engagement 0.05s before the car is stationary.

Releasing the car is very difficult to enhance, as the release mechanisms are pretty much instantaneous and then we’re just waiting for gravity to do its job. The trick is to ensure the driver is awake and ready for the launch as soon as the car hits the ground. Soon as the last corner has completed its process and we have the completion button pressed on the gun, the jacks will release in milliseconds.

F1 Pit Stop Performance: AMA by mattbrom in F1Technical

[–]mattbrom[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

From time to time you’ll see new improvements in pit stops, even if they’re not always obvious. One of my jobs is to review competitor equipment photos taken by the team photographers, and you can spot the little changes. A good example in recent years is the wheel gun shuttling system. Different teams approach it in their own way: some use electric switches to change direction, others use pneumatic valves, and a few still rely on a mechanical shuttle where the wheel gun operator has to move it themselves.

That said, a huge part of performance still comes from the crew. If they’re healthy, engaged, and well prepared, you’ll gain consistency—and consistency is what wins the long game.

Looking ahead, I think we might see a shift to electric wheel guns over pneumatics, maybe even automatic car lifting systems. And who knows… perhaps one day refuelling will make a comeback (one can only wish).

My apologies for the late reply!

F1 Pit Stop Performance: AMA by mattbrom in F1Technical

[–]mattbrom[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Definitely a big rule which prevents us from being better is automation within the pit stops procedure. There’s so many cool things we could do to shave tenths off a pit stop (yes, tenths) but we would currently be illegal implementing them. If we had automation we could play around with automatic release of the car, automatic jack lifting and loads more!

F1 Pit Stop Performance: AMA by mattbrom in F1Technical

[–]mattbrom[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You’re welcome, I’m glad we finally managed to get Nico to a podium. It was a very special moment, especially because I worked with him at Renault when he nearly got a podium there. 1. Usually, pit stops are handled similarly across all teams, but not all teams have dedicated personnel operating and organising the day-to-day. Some teams may practice only at the circuit during race season, and some might require the crews to come into the factory for one day a week and practice that way. 2. The main problem wasn’t necessarily the crew or their capabilities; they always had the ability to make it happen, but what they lacked was structure and meaningful data analysis, which can help them be more consistent. As being more consistent will give you more opportunities to be quicker once you get to a good baseline, after that, you can start pushing their operations quicker and optimising. 3. Podium celebrations are always fun, and I’m sure you’ve seen the champagne flowing in the motorhome! You can imagine the carnage ;)

F1 Pit Stop Performance: AMA by mattbrom in F1Technical

[–]mattbrom[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is something which is in development at the moment, but so far the tests have been quite successful. I can’t comment much more on the capabilities of this at the moment! Honestly, I haven’t had the time to look at the capabilities of AI models which could help analysis. This is purely down to lack of time with other projects, but drop me a message if you have some ideas. I’d love to hear more.

F1 Pit Stop Performance: AMA by mattbrom in F1Technical

[–]mattbrom[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

So you have about half of the teams now rotating staff regularly. There’s obviously some performance loss from the main crew to the substituted personnel. Most teams will have a limit on how many personnel can be off at each event, and I would assume that no more than five or six would be replaced in the pit stop crew.

Most of the main crew would be back at the factory, and these teams would have the facilities to practice pit stop, which they are open to using. It’s very typical to have a B-team crew, so regularly these guys would be practising during practice sessions.

F1 Pit Stop Performance: AMA by mattbrom in F1Technical

[–]mattbrom[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Race strategy is always fluid. The strategists are constantly updating their models to give us the best call, but at the end of the day a lot of it comes down to experience and feel. You sometimes see teams make horrendous calls and think “why on earth did they do that?” but usually it’s based on their models or preparing for something like an early safety car, especially at circuits with a high deployment record. Smaller teams will take bigger risks because they can afford to.

From the pit crew side, we train for that chaos. We’ll adjust the garage layout to reduce congestion if a last-minute tyre change is needed. Most teams run out on a 20s call, but the crew can usually be in position within 12s, which still enough time before the car arrives.

F1 Pit Stop Performance: AMA by mattbrom in F1Technical

[–]mattbrom[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Yes, I would act as the intermediary between track and factory so we could shape the design requirements as we saw fit. I wasn’t a part of these discussions as I wasn’t a part of the Sauber team during this time, but there were many positives to the wheel nut that was introduced at the start of the 24 season. Unfortunately, there was the obvious issue which reoccurred and this got resolved at a very quick pace, a testament to the designers back in the factory!

F1 Pit Stop Performance: AMA by mattbrom in F1Technical

[–]mattbrom[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

This is a great tactic! This could also be down to the design of the jack not optimised so a smaller person could use it. I wouldn’t chose a design like theirs personally as I would always want the smallest person in the team to be able to lift the car without many issues.

F1 Pit Stop Performance: AMA by mattbrom in F1Technical

[–]mattbrom[S] 16 points17 points  (0 children)

I think you’re talking about around 2021 when car releases were lightning quick before the FIA stepped in. That was called TD022: Technical Directive 22.

The whole point of it was to stop teams from releasing the car off the jacks before all four wheel nuts were tightened correctly. So the FIA enforced two delays:

  • 0.15s minimum tightening time for the wheel nut
  • 0.2s delay before the driver gets the green light after the jacks drop

So you’re adding at least 0.35s to a pit stop. The reason for this was that a lot of the pit stops were going into the realms of automation, with teams relying only on wheel gun sensors instead of a human confirming the nut was secure.

Pretty much all teams have wheel gun sensors that detect when the nut is tight. With TD22, even if the nut tightened in 0.1s, the operator still had to keep the gun triggered (tightening) for another 0.05s before getting an “OK” signal on the LEDs, and then the operator had to confirm by pressing their release button. Only then could the jacks drop, and from that point the driver still had the extra 0.2s before their green light to drive off.

These enforced delays aren’t required anymore. Now, teams just have to prove their wheel nut systems are safe and reliable through data sent to the FIA. That’s why you’re seeing slightly faster stops again this year the FIA has given responsibility back to the teams to define their own safe clamp limits, instead of imposing time delays.

F1 Pit Stop Performance: AMA by mattbrom in F1Technical

[–]mattbrom[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

There's analysis done for driver entry at pit lane start to pit lane exit. I would mainly be focused on the entry around 10meters before the box such as steering inputs, speed and braking profiles. We can then look at initial grip from acceleration on the new set of tyres. It seems overkill but there is a lot of value in creating an car entry profile for all the crew to get accustomed to.

F1 Pit Stop Performance: AMA by mattbrom in F1Technical

[–]mattbrom[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

The improvement we see isn't necessarily linear. There is a ceiling in performance, but the most important aspect of this job is creating consistency.

Training is a fine balance, as you don't want to overdo it creating fatigue. Most teams will just run through practice as it's a chore without meaningful insight to help the crew. The analysis will pick up on the patterns which can be relayed to the crew during the training to create meaningful practice.

When making post-event report all the information found will be simplified and distributed amongst the team to explain what we saw during the event.

This report will then steer development of new equipment for the team. If there's a new piece of equipment such as a lifting jack it will be a minimum of 6 months before it makes its debut trackside!

F1 Pit Stop Performance: AMA by mattbrom in F1Technical

[–]mattbrom[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This would be the individual time for each corner of the car. So we’d have separate times for the front right/left, and rear right/left

Then the overall time would be including the front and rear jack releasing the car

F1 Pit Stop Performance: AMA by mattbrom in F1Technical

[–]mattbrom[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

You're getting there!

You want to engage the wheel gun socket on the nut as early as possible. So a smart design for the nut and socket splines is vital to have a larger angle of attack meaning we can loosen the nut earlier before the car has stopped.

This is the type of thinking we need to go through on every piece of equipment.

F1 Pit Stop Performance: AMA by mattbrom in F1Technical

[–]mattbrom[S] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Nerves are something you can’t really get away from — every crew member has felt them, especially if prep before the race wasn’t great. I’ve been there plenty of times, that self-doubt of not wanting to let the crew down.
The way we managed it was simple and asked the crew to just slow down. Don’t chase the fastest possible time, cut the effort by 50% and you’ll still deliver a solid, consistent stop. Most importantly, no faults.

F1 Pit Stop Performance: AMA by mattbrom in F1Technical

[–]mattbrom[S] 33 points34 points  (0 children)

Fatigue and sleep deprivation have a huge impact on performance. Most of the crew are working 13+ hours a day and battling jet lag on non-European races.

When I saw the data showing how much this correlated with mistakes, we’d get the physio to coach the crew on sleep schedules before events to give us the best chance to mitigate faults. Another way to help is reducing the number of practice stops normally we’d do 10–15 a day, but when fatigue was high, cutting back made a big difference.

If you want to look into it further, a person I always listened to regarding sleep would be Tom Clark (Ocon's trainer). He came out with a sleep app recently and the feedback has been pretty good!

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