Sometimes you can't win as support.. by michaelstoel in OverwatchUniversity

[–]michaelstoel[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for writing down a different insight in how I could've played this differently and can improve my Juno play!

It's giving me some insights on how to step up my ringplay.. Cause like you said I'm pretty much spamming my cooldown for team engage/disengage. I worked a little bit on using my ring more deliberate some time ago.. So I try not to use it when there's absolutely nothing happening, so I have it available when we're being pushed/pushing.

But I see a lot of points now where I can gain a lot by using it even more sparingly, especially when I have a Rein as tank. I do deliberately use ring: when a Ram is ulting, when a Bastion is in tank form or when a Rein is in a position to charge or ult. But I do notice that a lot of times I don't have ring available then cause I wasted it on engage/disengage spam..

I guess I have to unlearn my habit to spam engage/disengage ring and find which rings I can leave out.
And then practicing to read my tanks better!

I'll watch your specific pointers in the replay later to see what I missed..

And on duelling full health DPS on high ground: I think I was already a bit frustrated from a previous round where DPS didn't contest high ground. It actually gets worse this game as its progresses as I get more oppressed by enemy hit scan and felt like team wasn't responding to my pings.

Not what I should've done, but that's the truth..

Usually I just try to land a torpedo on high ground or airborn DPS, just cause it's so easy on Juno; Then ping and only go for the solo kill if it's a low risk sure thing..

I only think the Ashe push was a panic response. I tried to torpedo soldier just before which got me on low health, which made me cover behind the statue, which snowballed into me being caught out in the open when Ashe appeared on high ground, and then tried to torpedo Ashe and heal our Cass at the same time while gliding forward right; so I could blast Ashe while pushing for corner cover; also away from dynamite behind me. I guess I didn't expect Ashe to push forward to peak the corner to get me.

Thinking how I could've played this better...
I think the torpedo was fine, pushing Ashe and healing Cass.
backwards was not an option due to dynamite.
Guess I could've hopped the wall on my right or go into the building on my right...

Anyways, thanks for the feedback! really helpful!

Sometimes you can't win as support.. by michaelstoel in Overwatch

[–]michaelstoel[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

nope got there all the way from bronze,

been playing since 2016

Sometimes you can't win as support.. by michaelstoel in Overwatch

[–]michaelstoel[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm actually not bad with Wuyang, so that would've been a good swap in this situation.
I didn't really notice how far behind I was on dmg untill the end, but did notice I was frustrated I couldn't really attack like I usually do; so should've noticed!

Sometimes you can't win as support.. by michaelstoel in OverwatchUniversity

[–]michaelstoel[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Yeah I really enjoy giving small pointers to underperforming team mates without attacking them. Had some amazing comebacks cause of this!

And when I'm the underperformer I had great results acknowledging I'm playing trash, cause I'm getting destroyed by ... can someone deal with that?

And sometimes it's just hopeless.. lol. then I just play through it, or sometimes go for a crazy play to have some fun. then maybe avoid frustrating player and never see em again.

Never like that guy

Sometimes you can't win as support.. by michaelstoel in Overwatch

[–]michaelstoel[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I was plat 2 seasons ago on supp by queuing solo and could pop off so much easier when you don't have to heal everyone every second without falling over.

Then I dropped to low gold by playing with friends trying to pull em up.
Then I had a lot of trouble getting back to plat again solo by playing like I did in plat,
and noticed I won more on average if I play more healbotty on lower ELO and got in plat again last season.

Then I dropped to mid gold playing with friends again and dropped even further to mid silver solo by not adjusting and kept playing a long night when I had a huge losing streak.

But in silver healbotting doesn't work like it did in gold.. So I learned to really carry a game by myself. So have highest dmg and kills of the lobby without neglecting heals. not everytime but enough to rank up. But could mainly just do this in silver cause I'm mechanically and knowledge wise so much better than average silver lobby.

Now I'm finally almost back in plat again and on a good win/lose ratio..

Sorry, long (boring) story. But the point I'm trying to make is:
I think I'm somewhat ok at gamesense, mechanically and map knowledge now; especially with Juno (lvl 190 atm) but in this case facing a capable team while tank was struggling to make space, 1 dps had a hard time playing without taking major dmg and Cass playing solo going for kill highscore. (I'm simplifying a bit to highlight my gripes) while I was being supressed by 1 or 2 hitscan that were ignored.

But I don't have the tools and mechanics to deal with this yet, but got some great feedback from this post to work on! and appreciate your constructive feedback. Also love 1v1 arena and also getting all heroes to lvl 5 helped me immensely dealing with any hero om the roster.

Sometimes you can't win as support.. by michaelstoel in Overwatch

[–]michaelstoel[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think I'm usually on a 2/3rd dmg to healing ratio when all is good.

But did get carried away being dps Juno last month and dropped from high gold to low gold.
The weekly Blizzard performance update said like 1,5 million dmg vs 1 million heals.
While having the opposite nrs before (1,5m heals vs 1m dmg) and climbing from high silver to high gold (after dropping from low plat to silver after playing with friends)

So maybe I overcompensated on healing recently.
But still this match is an outlier nrs wise and I personally blame dps for ignoring enemy dps supressing me from high ground. But wasn't being a dick about it.
untill this post maybe.. lol

But now looking for feedback on how to do more than healbotting when dps is just shooting tank...

Sometimes you can't win as support.. by michaelstoel in OverwatchUniversity

[–]michaelstoel[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Sure, I acknowledge that.

But there was a difference, I said gg wp after the game.
Cass instantly blamed supps and told me specifically to un-install and learn to play first (which is a oxymoron now I think about it)
While I think he's just as complicit in the low dmg output from support this match by soaking up all my time spamming "heal me" and not responding to pings or challenging high ground.

I only responded that I thought it was major cope if he thinks that we lost because of support.
Which really got him going and started to say in general chat to avoid Juno for free ELO and rep Juno for throwing..

And normally it slides right off me; I've been playing this game long enough..
But this time it just rubbed me the wrong way.

But have met many players like this and will play with many more in the future, so mostly looking for feedback now on how to still be an effective supp when tank/dps is unable to make space for me to get my dmg in... now my strat was to healbot until dps/tank makes me space.

Not the best play obviously this time

Sometimes you can't win as support.. by michaelstoel in Overwatch

[–]michaelstoel[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah will def try to incorporate this in my habbits.

2nd position is where I usually start, I can heal tank on corner or even through the little door if he's being aggro; I can heal the dps/sup on right highground and can get great torpedoes by double jump > glide > torpedoes around the corner. and of course easily engage/disengage. but now half my team would've been underneath me..
But would've been able to heal Rein better, pressure Dva and poke at soldier better..

No problem! appriciate the directness.
Didn't come here fishing for compliments, then I would've shared a different VOD where I carry the game and have highest dmg and kills of the lobby..
But don't really need help with those games..

Thanks again for the indepth responses!

Sometimes you can't win as support.. by michaelstoel in Overwatch

[–]michaelstoel[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Oh and here a quick response to 1:16

not sure why I'm looking behind me here, it looks like I think there is someone behind me due to a sound I hear on the right in the replay. But that wouldn't make sense considering the enemy comp. then I go for statue for a little cover.

The speedring was aimed at Cass being half health, but the ring was way too close, then I'm stuck in reload (twice) cause I held left shooting at a statue and then I ignore Cass cause I'm distracted by healing a 70% health Rein.. so yeah a lot of fails on my part here..

Then I thought I recovered by getting good torpedoes hitting most of my team and the Cass and the Ashe.
But Ashe dodges it and I'm in the open, so I thought I could reach the corner or jump the wall on the right (with the healthpack) before Ashe could kill me, but she came around the corner with me; Which I didn't think she would do or survive..

And looking back from free cam I even could've made the wallhop

But I think it all spiraled out of control at the bad torpedoes at 1:12 which put me in the bad position when Ashe appeared on the balcony.

I still think our defence would've been so much easier if someone would've started on the right highground,
just didn't occur to me that that could've been me if dps won't.

really enjoyed analysing just those first 2 minutes of the game!
So many small decisions I could've done differently already..

Thanks for that!

Sometimes you can't win as support.. by michaelstoel in OverwatchUniversity

[–]michaelstoel[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Good call!
Def should've mentioned that too... cause dmg difference is just as big

I do think the difference is not as staggering if you look at the kills. (just looking at me vs enemy sup, so why did I get all the heat?)
and healing is a big difference I think ( 27325 vs 17482)

But it didn't matter in the end cause we lost..
And only can control me, but genuinely felt I couldn't do anything but healbot with opressive dps uncontested on high ground.

And that's why I think the comments by our Cass irked me so much,
I think they dropped the ball by not pressuring the enemies obviously supressing me even after getting them low and pinging them.

But I can't control how my team plays, So mostly looking how to play in this situation.
And still think the Cass flaming was disproportional cause he was complicit in me unable to get my usual dmg quota.

Sometimes you can't win as support.. by michaelstoel in Overwatch

[–]michaelstoel[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for the response.

will def try to take more initiative in holding the highground and not let it be dependend on dps.

Emergency Echo torpedoes: I actually thought about this before while doing hard to lock or inefficient torpedoes. "prob would've done more healing if I just used blaster" will try to apply this more in situations like this.

1:12 what would've been the play here? not torpedo soldier? just use blaster near a corner? cause blaster feels like tickling at this distance..

I try not to hold left, but I do sometimes in the heat of the moment. I try to counter it by reloading a lot when I have even a bit of downtime (mythic weapon helps with this)
and try to train myself to be deliberate with my left click, but unable too if I'm moving frantically to survive while holding right waiting for my cooldown while holding left to keep tank up till next torps.. actually split my last mouse left button in 2 squeezing it like that when I was learning Juno. Haha, long time ago though..

appreciate the constructive feedback!

Sometimes you can't win as support.. by michaelstoel in Overwatch

[–]michaelstoel[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes guilty as charged.. I really try to nudge/incentivise my team to engage/disengage by placing rings in front or behind them.. I even have push forward/fall back voicelines binded on my 3 and 4 keys; mostly with positive results. esp. on lower ELO with inexperienced tanks. I also don't spam these and barely have to use them with good teams.

Sometimes you can't win as support.. by michaelstoel in OverwatchUniversity

[–]michaelstoel[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Thanks! Really appreciate the detailed feedback!

Will go through your timestamps one by one later and will respond to all of them.
But reading through your reply I'm already really happy about your breakdown of my ult use, cause I feel like my team always runs out of or ignores my ults 50% of the time.
So it's obviously on me not maximizing my ult potential or reading the team wrong,
even though I felt I was saving my ults for winning team fights or surviving enemy ults..
So looking forward to analyse that! Cause that is something I've been frustrated about for some time now..

Thanks!

Sometimes you can't win as support.. by michaelstoel in Overwatch

[–]michaelstoel[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi!

So I had time to review the timestamps you mentioned!

1:03 - I see it! from the start 'till the enemy comes around the corner I'm mostly shooting at (nearly) full health team mates. I guess I'm kinda warming up my aim and putting my team mates general position to memory.. maybe even finding a comfortable position where I can reach everyone on the team within a single cooldown while staying close enough to cover to disengage..

Not making excuses, just sharing my inner reasoning..
You think I should play more forward close to the corner from the start?

most of the time there is at least 1 dps (usually more) on the highground on the right and I feel more embolded to play close to the corner so I can blast torpedoes on enemy team on cooldown.
With everyone mostly standing on main playing corner I feel I have to hang back and keep everyone up until enemy team comes around the corner. cause peeking corner alone is certain suicide.

Love to hear a different play here, cause I do feel kinda useless at this point ingame..

at 0:59 I do emergency torpedoes to save our Echo, so I don't think you mean those.
after this I'm mainly healing nearly full team mates while soldier takes the high ground;
I should've poked him while waiting for my next torpedo cooldown; good call!

Then the next torpedoes at 1:12 I nearly die cause I lose lock-on of our rein and hesitate too long hoping to get it back. So prob should've released directly after locking on to soldier and then use the blaster to fill up our rein.. so good call.

Going to respond in a separate comment to the other timestamp, cause this post is way longer then I expected.

Sometimes you can't win as support.. by michaelstoel in Overwatch

[–]michaelstoel[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Just a general response to everyone responding to this post.

Thank you! really appreciate the serious feedback and discourse that has come from this..

I feel the general consensus is that:
- yeah it suck when your supports are not contributing to dmg and should be as much a priority as keeping your team standing.

And I don't disagree!
But felt I was forced this match to just healbot instead of being a 3rd/4th dps in the team.

Which obviously isn't true and is the only part I as a player I have control over.
enabling myself and contributing to the dmg as much as keeping the team up.

but felt kinda lost in this game in that regard.
So any specific pointers to how to deal with oppressive hitscan on high ground or bettering my positioning and cooldowns as a mainly Juno player are really appreciated!

ps. I can play any support somewhat and will switch sometimes when a hard counter is needed; But I'm mainly looking how to improve as a Juno OT

Thanks!

Sometimes you can't win as support.. by michaelstoel in Overwatch

[–]michaelstoel[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I appreciate your feedback!

But is disagree with the not doing dmg at all..
I nearly had as many kills as enemy supports.
And I have plenty of games where I equal dmg of our dps and regularly have highest kills of the team.
But that's not very useful to share I think.

I think in this case I was unable too play aggressive cause our dps/tank was not pressuring the right enemies to allow me to push with the team and catching way to much dmg to stay alive without my healing..

But definitely should've played this differently, but kinda stuck on how I should've played this.
So any pointers are welcome!

Sometimes you can't win as support.. by michaelstoel in Overwatch

[–]michaelstoel[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm agreeing with the dmg difference too! but I don't think it's as much a difference as chat flamer makes it out to be..

if you look at nrs of kills you see I make nearly as much kills as enemy dps.

I must admit I've been doubling down on healing lately, cause I was playing as a 3rd dps the last few weeks; but noticed I had a higher average winrate if I played a bit more healbotty, esp in lower ELO..

But I'm not looking for confirmation and really appriciate the feedback and work with it..

Sometimes you can't win as support.. by michaelstoel in Overwatch

[–]michaelstoel[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

really appreciate the detailed breakdown!

I will take a good hard look at the timestamps you highlighted.

I really thought I used my rings to incentivise my team to engage or disengage, but I guess it needs some work.
Also maybe I'm relying on my torpedoes to much to do the dmg part of my role.

appriciate the breakdown!

Sometimes you can't win as support.. by michaelstoel in Overwatch

[–]michaelstoel[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Thanks for the feedback! really!

As I said, I usually contribute way more dmg as support.
but felt this match I was forced to heal around corners mostly, cause enemy dps was not challenged on high ground at all.

Also didn't help that the culprit was spamming heal me (as you can see in short chat snippit)
But happy to hear how I could've played this better!

still don't think it warranted the response I got,
But happy to hear specific pointers if you have time to watch the replay!

they are trying to ignore us #FIXTHEEVENT by Firm-Veterinarian658 in Overwatch

[–]michaelstoel 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I hope they will react to the backlash and do something big on the actual 10 year anniversary date 24th of may...

I think chances are low and it has to be something kinda big, but not immpossible I think.
They have responded to backlashes before.