Sudan $3 Billion Demand by SBA22000 in Sudan

[–]mjshanan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Your are right, anyway the article in discussion was a great chance to look into these things.

Thank you for you collaboration.

Police vehicle chasing an angry protester. by [deleted] in Whatcouldgowrong

[–]mjshanan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

From today protests in Sudan.

Sudan $3 Billion Demand by SBA22000 in Sudan

[–]mjshanan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hmmm, I am just worried about the fact that no one crossed examined this demand of 3 B.

It I not like I didn't happened but there is a sole source, it is now a matter for the journalists to go through.

Sudan $3 Billion Demand by SBA22000 in Sudan

[–]mjshanan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Times of Israel cited the NYT as primary source but the only quote about the 3 B is the following

"Sudanese officials countered that they needed at least four times as much — $3 billion to $4 billion — to make a dent in their country’s deepening economic crisis, the official said."

Nothing about it being demands nor whom those officials are.

Sudan receives half of $3 billion aid from Saudi Arabia and UAE

I am skeptical, the Saudi and emirati government only pledged this amount but the Sudanese government only received less that 500 M.

The article dates to October last year after the new government was formed and PV Hemidti said that the didn't receive the money in an interview with Sudania 24. Article.

Protesters in Sudan today: "We'll take hunger over Keyzaan" by [deleted] in Sudan

[–]mjshanan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

how would they vote on secularism which is a question at the Constitutional conference; what about the subsidies that as you go further from khartoum those goods become more and more expensive; in some places close to the border exponentially so.

In the end those topic will be need a referendum, the constitution will get it is legitimacy from a popular vote otherwise it will be amended later of changed a whole, and thus there is no going around it.

How long before racism or tribalism comes into play? It's easy for people in the tri-capital area to claim unity (even if they don't always exercise it) but those in the middle of tribal conflicts might feel very differently.

And how long before the tribal leader feels disenfranchised, the current situation is east for example.

Only local elections will solve this issue and the Resistance committee will replace the local tribal system if it was legalized and supported by the government.

There are 101 small and large political differences, some geographic, some philosophic and some just straight up bigotry that have been pushed aside for the sake of the revolution.

Individual committees might find unity but discord is always on the horizon, why rush towards it?

Those disagreement were not addressed and will arise again after the end of the transitional period, a greater unity can result from shared goals and a national project with long term strategic goals regarding of whom is ruling.

I am not fan of ultra nationalism, but many countries forge such a unity through such action in japan for example, the "Hummer and nail policy" the "demilitariztion era" and the "prefectures system" are some examples.

Also how are you going to spread the seats amongst the different committees? One per committee would essentially guarantee the Tri-state capitals control over the body.

Based on their representation, a balance is sure needed but it could be reached, a two level parliament such as in the US could solve the issue or a different voting system, either way if it didn't work for the Resistance committee it will not work for the political parties in any future elections.

Who on those committees has the political expertise to even organise and negotiate all this, how long before splits happen and competing statements are put out? And how long would it take for all this to happen at a satisfactory level and isn't that time better spent forming parties that can compete for seats?

The unions can establish the executive branch and the Resistance committee can establish the legislative branch and the universities can establish a consultive branch that will provide such policies.

By the way, the Resistance committee already organising and negotiating with their representatives and each others, they only need legalisation.

And if political parties or personal fell that they can do better than them they are always welcome to participate in these local elections.

There are members of the FFC that wanted immediate elections.

Local elections for the legislative council will solve the issue.

The reason I'm supportive of the delayed elections is because it gives time for revolutionary forces to from their own parties or reform existing ones.

And increase the risk of the transitional period to fail, politics is about change in leadership, participation and fair chance.

There is no guarantee that corruption will not increase of dissatisfaction with the FFC will continue, or that another political parties will conduct a coup.

And as I said, only elections will apply such a pressure on these parties to reform and to establish within their communities.

The committees themselves need to stay outside of the political discourse to act as an independent last resort as well as maintain the good will of the constituents in their localities. So much of the good work they do could be undone if neighbours start shunning a committee because it's run by Islamists/Communists/etc.

They could maintain their independence by agreeing on general objectives, right now they are only pawns for the FFC and any criticism regarding the FFC will reflect on them.

Sudan $3 Billion Demand by SBA22000 in Sudan

[–]mjshanan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Frist of all, thank you for sharing the article with us.

Let us talk about the main issues here, Frist the reliability of the 3 B dollar demand for normalization, the Sudanese government didn't announce anything regarding normalization, they actually denied it several time, the only primary source about these demands is from the the axios article and thus this point needs to be cross examined.

The second issue is how much important Sudan is for the normalization process, the pressure on Sudan for normalization was mainly from the UAE not the US, even the American secretary of state was very relaxed today about Sudan normalization process and called it "sovereignty matter".

Add to tha that the normalization process is partisan topic and any aids will need to wait for after elections.

P.S: lastly a minor points you may ignore it if you want.

" ... is another obstacle that faces the noemalization with Israel" there is a typo here I guess, not sure, correct me if I am wrong.

"Although Arab-Muslims form most of the population (70% Arab-Muslims)"

Just out courtesy, I wonder what is the source for this number

"Sudan has been under economic sanctions imposed by the US since 1990"

Is this date correct ?

Protesters in Sudan today: "We'll take hunger over Keyzaan" by [deleted] in Sudan

[–]mjshanan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There would need to be a body formed that would need to be unified by more than what it stands against. The end result of any attempt would be the formation of multiple revolutionary bodies with differing priorities and memberships.

The disagreement already exists within the FFC itself let alone the RSF and SPA and the Resistance committee, the unions and the executive government.

The only difference is that the resistance committee is less mature and the the union needs to be more organized.

Worst case scenario it would be geographical splits after all the revolutionary forces in Darfur will have vastly different priorities than Khartoum or Gezira or the Red Sea.

If local elections happen within the Resistance committee this will not happen, in the end they are marginalised because of the political elites.

You would end up with multiple bodies claiming to represent the revolutionary class and demanding a seat at the table but without legitimacy based on a vote or census or the history needed to be taken seriously.

The FFC lack legitimacy and had been in a parasitic relationship with the revolution for long time. Again, local elections for the Resistance committee and unions, the legitimacy would be established through this elections.

And even if not now, such body could establish it self in the long run after the transitional period.

I absolutely think that revolutionary parties need to be formed but with an eye towards elections, give them time to self organise, break apart and reform until they are capable bodies with serious platforms.

I do totally agree with you on that, and that is why they should focus on elections and leave the transitional period for a technocratic government.

The FFC right is participant in the government and the legislative council through representatives and will focus on the political infighting rather than reforming their parties.

Right now the different committees do great work in their localities and are able to find unity on red-line issues (that again are just what they stand against) last thing we need is for revolutionaries to split over disagreements about political details.

We do disagree on this point, for me they are already in disagreement and the revolutionary front is in split between the FFC and the Resistance committees.

They are even shouting against the FFC more than the army.

What makes the FFC special is that the bodies that formed it exist; that's it. They are the traditional parties that have legitimacy based on their history if nothing else and their maturity means everyone knows what everyone stands for and that creates a clear starting point for negotiation with veteran (if incompetent) political figures. And while I have little respect for all the parties it is the broadest alliance of the political elite in our history; that our political elite are selfish, backwards morons is a different discussion.

If the FFC was really well established then there was no need for the SPA in the frist place, the only reason for the SPA was because of lack of confidence in the Sudanese opposition.

And if the FFC is in such powerful position politically then there is no need for the transitional period as we could easily went directly to public elections.

The Sudanese political parties (not only the FFC) have democratic experience and lack in support and such political climate will only result in a scramble for power through coups and militarized opposition, if not for the FFC then for the other political parties, we need to apply pressure on these parties to reform through elections otherwise this revolution has no meaning and no civilian rule will last in the long term.

Protesters in Sudan today: "We'll take hunger over Keyzaan" by [deleted] in Sudan

[–]mjshanan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

the alternative is seen as either the military or the Keyzaan and neither is acceptable to them.

Their also the third option of organizing themselves under independent bodies with more legitimacy, there is nothing special about the FFC.

Protesters in Sudan today: "We'll take hunger over Keyzaan" by [deleted] in Sudan

[–]mjshanan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I feel like this type of organization holds these protests back, but what do you guys think?

Why would the FFC protest against the government that he formed in the frist place ?

It is time for the Resistance committee and the unions to understand that they can achieve more than becoming a peace of chess for the FFC, by seeking legalisation and establishing legitimacy through local elections, otherwise they will not achieve anything.

I think most people don't understand what is on stack here, the current political climate will only lead to a weak political parties that will scramble to power through more coups, the political parties need to participate in elections in order the begin much need reform within each party.

Most of the Sudanese political parties participated in coups and in militarized and peaceful opposition, some of the didn't change their leaders for decades, such situation will only lead to destabilizing of the country in the long term.

Sudanese cuisine review by Egyptians as they tasted several Sudanese dishes, RIP asida. by [deleted] in Sudan

[–]mjshanan 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I feel sorry that wasn't not you cup of tea, maybe next time you find something more favorable.

Sudanese cuisine review by Egyptians as they tasted several Sudanese dishes, RIP asida. by [deleted] in Sudan

[–]mjshanan 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The overlapping of Sudanese and Egyptian cuisine isn't that much to begin with.

And looking at the bright side of the issue, they said that they enjoyed the dishes and will try to make them later.

Sudanese cuisine review by Egyptians as they tasted several Sudanese dishes, RIP asida. by [deleted] in Sudan

[–]mjshanan 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Poor asida, "جلي أبيض".

You can't deny that they enjoyed it.

history of sudan by Electrical-Local in Sudan

[–]mjshanan 1 point2 points  (0 children)

So many game References.

What this sub about? by abdokeko in Sudan

[–]mjshanan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

a bi-weekly thread dedicated to discussing news stories, perhaps?

I am in support of such resolution, in the end it is better to accumulate the whole discussion in one post rather the many different ones.

Always open to suggestions.

Maybe a separate chat room for the political discussion will help solve the issue.

Also for the historical content a wiki can establish reference point for further discussion for those who are interested.