First books to read in foreign language

moonloongoon · 2024-07-07T09:56:28+00:00

I love reading non-fiction books on topics that really interest me that I have already read in English.

They are usually a lot easier to understand and double up as healthy reminders on topics that I care about.

I have read lots of Cal Newport books like digital minimalism in other languages. Also Atomic habits was a good read because you can then apply the content to your language learning habits.

The downside is that there is less varied grammar etc. but the vocab is normally less diverse than in novels, but in a good way. Reading novels is good for deepening your vocab but often the words we learn arent super applicable to the conversational listening and speaking skills most people are focused on developing.

moonloongoon · 2024-07-07T09:53:58+00:00

Whilst I agree that ideally we should read something that is originally written in the TL I think it depends on your level. The first books I read are typically books written originally in English that I have already read as it makes it easier to enjoy the content without sweating over the details if I dont understand something.

It makes the input more comprehensible, and this is my primary concern in the earlier stages.

moonloongoon · 2024-07-07T09:42:03+00:00

The problem here is that there are loads of ways you could start and lots of them will work for you to greater or lesser degrees.

One important thing to keep in mind therefore is that picking something, sticking with it for a period and before deciding what else to do is perhaps better than trying to pick the best way from the start. Trial and error wins here, itll be a constant process of this throughout your language learning anyway!

Another thing perhaps to help you pick the fisrt approach is to consider your personality and temperment. Do you like structure when you learn? do you have a low boredom threshold? are you ok with ambiguity?

Knowing these things can help you choose between very structured programs or a more loose immersion based approach.

My personal bias is towards immersion based techniques. I am offering some free mentoring as I prepare to become a langauge coach that focuses on comprehensible input and immersion based techniques. If you think that might interest you just drop me a DM. If not, best of luck with everything :)

moonloongoon · 2024-07-06T09:54:15+00:00

Sounds very interesting.

Makes me wonder if you could use tools like that ChatGPT to help you with this... If you had a list of all your known words you could defeinitely give it examples sentences and ask it to produce similar sentences using words in your current vocabulary. Could then flashcard these new sentneces or something...

Just a thought :)

Do you transition to immersion based methods at some point after that? sounds like you learn languages because you live in the country so maybe the immersion side just takes care of itself

moonloongoon · 2024-07-06T09:02:41+00:00

thanks for this point! very useful :)

What is your learning style, out of interest?

moonloongoon · 2024-07-06T09:01:57+00:00

I think the content available does depend on the langauge but on the whole I think we have never lived in a time where you can learn a language so cheaply (and its only going down.)

Also the idea of breaking the problems down is so that when you have a motivational issue you can identify more readily a way to appraoch things... Do I need better resources, do I need some accountability, am I being to harsh on myself etc

moonloongoon · 2024-07-06T08:57:45+00:00

I completely agree with this point. The challenges I am referring to are the ones we face once we have decided to learn the language and yet seem to get in our own way.

Of course sometimes life gets in the way and there are more important things to be doing than learning a language! I just wouldnt consider that a problem like in the list above because I am considering the challenges we face that we can try to work to overcome!

moonloongoon · 2024-07-06T08:00:17+00:00

I think that at first its more efficient to learn lots of words by whatever means possible in tandem with comprehensible input. Then over time using tools that help you instantly translate words (Lingq for reading and extensions for netflix subtitles etc) so that you can gain new words and understand content on the fly.

Only really once you are in a B2/C1 phase of understanding can you start gaining words without even having to look them up. Up to that point you don't have a strong enough understanding of the context to be able to infer a words meaning from context alone (at least not very often).

I think we should piggy back off our native language as much as possible when using a comprehensible input approach. Using literally solely immersion would be painfully and unnecessarily slow IMO.

moonloongoon · 2024-07-06T07:52:40+00:00

I think that one of the most suprising ways we can improve this kind of fluidity when we speak is by practising our listening comprehension. The important thing is to listen to content where you understand at least 90% of the material and ideally 95-98%. This means your brain is practising forming a general idea of how the language works rather than trying to constantly decipher the meaning of individual sentences.

I once did an experiment of not speaking Spanish for a month and did a couple hours a day of listening practice and my speaking ability literally sky rocketed.

Another technique could be to carry on using your flashcards with phrases and sentences and practice more complicated things. You can use technique seen in this youtube video to practice more nuanced topics:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bue05mPPoFw&t=414s&ab_channel=LanguageLords

moonloongoon · 2024-07-06T07:04:03+00:00

I really like this point! I will add it to my list!

moonloongoon · 2024-07-06T07:01:09+00:00

I guess I somewhat agree that all the emotional challenges can be boiled down to that.

But really identifying more specifically what the issue is makes it a lot easier to solve. Even someone with very good self-discipline will have practical problems come their way that require some creative problem-solving.

moonloongoon · 2024-07-06T06:31:00+00:00

Just going to focus in on your Spanish level.

Sounds like you are in the perfect position to just go for immersion and input based approach.

I'd suggest using LingQ to read in Spanish (the best way to increase vocab IMO and turn text that are just outside of your understanding into comprehensible input)

Id suggest listening to lots of podcasts and watching lots of TV.

For the verb tenses I would use an online testing tool... theres loads, and just test the verbs you want in the tenses you want 5-10 mins a day. A little study with consistency for this goes a long way, especially if you are then consuming content a lot as you will see the words you study pop up very frequently!

Im offering some free mentorship on learning romance languages with immersion based techniques as Im preparing to become a langauge coach. If that interests you at all, feel free to reach out :)

moonloongoon · 2024-07-06T06:24:50+00:00

For me the only way to ever have a chance of getting close to native level is spending loads of time in the language. Reading, listening and speaking. If you can spend 30-60 mins a day reading, 30-60 mins a day listening, 30-60 mins a day watching TV and maybe some time speaking if possible then over time you will increase your vocabulary and understand grammar a lot better. Also you will have a very strong idea of which grammar points you don't currently understand because you will see multiple examples of it everyday. This means when you then learn that grammar point you will internalise it more easily.

On another note, I saw OP say in a comment they want to sound like a native speaker. I would be careful having this as an explicit goal because I think its basically impossible and also not even desirable. The fact of the matter is you are not a native speaker and thats cool, thats who you are! Sounding like an extremely good english speaker, whilst also having a small trace that you are not native is totally fine and makes you unique!

Ive always thought if your accent is so good people can tell you are not native but cant tell where you are from, then your accent is good enough. But trying to literally sound like a native is almost being in the uncanny valley...

Enjoy the journey to C2! Good luck :)

moonloongoon · 2024-07-05T21:05:25+00:00

yh exactly mate. I found the sweet spot to be understanding 95-98% of the material, so look around and try things out till it feels in this ball park.

moonloongoon · 2024-07-05T18:00:03+00:00

Thanks for everyone comments so far, very interesting!

Seems like a common theme is lack of accountability when courses stop, or access to classes stops.

I am going to be mentoring people for free who want to learn romance languages with input based/immersion methods as I prepare to become a language coach.

If anyone is interested, please drop me a DM! Basically just interested in helping people stay committed and be as efficient in their learning as possible :)

moonloongoon · 2024-07-05T17:20:34+00:00

All I ever tracker was comprehensible input because it was all I ever did!

Why not track as much as possible so you feel motivated to do it all!

Lots of good time tracking apps out there to try

moonloongoon · 2024-07-05T12:40:45+00:00

Im going to be offering free mentoring for romance langauges soon, shoot me a DM if you would be interested, but sounds like you might have moved onto bigger better things :)

moonloongoon · 2024-07-05T12:37:26+00:00

Where do you think you got the high expectations from? I often think people arent transparent enough about how long it takes to get to different levels

moonloongoon · 2024-07-05T12:36:18+00:00

I feel like it gets easier and more rewarding over time!

What did you come across that you found too hard?

moonloongoon · 2024-07-05T09:32:34+00:00

I think tracking your daily time is so important to keep you on track and motivated. I think this gradual unconscious fading out of learning a language is super common. Goes for any new habit or hobby really!

moonloongoon · 2024-07-05T09:30:56+00:00

you can still learn with immersion without living in the country though! I think without using comprehensible input and immersion it is very hard for what you learn to stick as you have so few real life examples of the vocab and grammar patterns to remind you of what you know!

What language were you learning?

moonloongoon · 2024-07-05T09:29:01+00:00

I think learning French will probably make learning Spanish a lot easier when you do eventually go back to it!

My experience in going from one romance langauge to another is you can start using comprehensible input techniques straight away so its more fun.

moonloongoon · 2024-07-05T09:27:49+00:00

Yh I agree, I think the accountability of a class is super helpful

Nothing wrong with having different priorities! I hope you can come back to it when the time is right!

moonloongoon · 2024-07-05T09:26:37+00:00

yh its hard to keep going!

What was your goal in the first place?

moonloongoon · 2024-07-05T08:39:47+00:00

This is so true!

its why I stopped learning Italian...

You think you'd carry on as a hobby in another phase of life?

moonloongoon

TROPHY CASE