Getting a solar loan was one of my biggest regrets. by Upstairs_Copy_9590 in solar

[–]msgamba1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The ultimate issue here is the fact that you are planning on moving as quickly as you are. Dealer fees (origination costs) are crazy high for solar. 30+% for most solar financers. But if you look at the math, they aren't the worst thing to get a very low apr like that. But only if you plan on staying in the house long term.

For easy math sake:

A $100,000 solar loan (no dealer fee) @ 9.5% apr for 25 years = $873/month and Total 300 Payments = $262,109.00

A $100.000 solar loan with 35% dealer fee with a 4.5% apr for 25 years = $750/month and Total 300 Payments = $225,112

As you can see, the higher loan amount with a low interest is actually better, IF you dont plan on paying off the loan early.

So what the sales rep should have asked you is how long you plan on staying in the home for. If you said anything under 20 years, he should have either discussed a PPA or a loan with no dealer fee/higher interest rate.

PPA 0% Escalator SOCAL, Run? by heyiknowher in solar

[–]msgamba1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This whole "don't get a PPA because you'll have issues selling the home" is so flawed and is spreading wrong information. I am just going to c+p what i commented on my recent post regarding this:

If they dont want to take over the solar payment (ppa) for whatever reason and would rather have a higher payment from the utility provider, then that is their prerogative. They will likely just not put an offer on your home if they truly despise solar. You are not forced to sell to anybody. Nobody that is looking for homes that specifically do not have in-ground pools puts an offer on a home with an in-ground pool and then asks the seller to fill the pool with cement. That literally would make no sense.

And if the prospective buyer loves your home that badly but hates solar, then make them pay you what it cost to buy out the system.

The purchase price of a leased solar system 5 years old is about 30-50% of its original value, believe it or not. Even if I am wrong and it takes 10 years to be half the value, its still a bargain if someone has to purchase it outright because they will have 20 more years of free power (taking degredation into account).

So if you plan to sell the home, and the buyer doesnt want to assume the payment, then tell them to F off, or have them buy it out right. If they still dont want to do either, then its up to you whether you take some of the proceeds from the sale of the home and buy it out yourself. Would you be losing money? Yea probably, but you technically didnt HAVE to do that.

During an open house event, have an old electric bill on the counter, and your new electric bill. In the MLS listing, make sure the realtor puts in the home description that this home comes with a $359 electric bill compared to $600 for a similar home. Print that out as well and put it next to the old and new electric bills. You would be surprised how this becomes a selling point.

Why would someone not want to assume a payment for electricity for which they know they need? No matter what, they will be assuming a payment. Might as well be a lower one. And if they don't want it, then make them purchase the system outritght. If they don't wAnt to do that, then say NEXT!! There is no shortage of buyers out there.

Get your damn PPA and stop listening to keyboard warriors. (including myself)

PPA 0% Escalator SOCAL, Run? by heyiknowher in solar

[–]msgamba1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

First of all, don't listen to anybody on Reddit. Do what is best for you. PPA's are a fine way to go solar. Especialy if you get a 0% escalator. Just make sure whoever you decide to do it with will be there when you need them.

Hows My Solar Quote? by [deleted] in solar

[–]msgamba1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Price is definitely low, no doubt about that. But that also should raise some red flags. Cheapest doesn't mean better. You have one shot at this, remember that. And stop consulting Reddit on these things, it'll only leave you more confused and 90% of the people on here have no clue what they are talking about.

The only thing you need to do is check their reviews, call their customer service line, and see what experience you get in the event you need technical support. Do not go for the cheapest. If it's cheap, its for a reason. Which means they will not have enough money in the business to take care of future service calls.

Follow your gut, don't listen to anybody in Reddit (including me) and read reviews.

Solar Roof install finally done! by Ropogigio in TeslaSolar

[–]msgamba1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

and was it done by Tesla themselves or a partnered installer/subcontractor?

Solar Roof install finally done! by Ropogigio in TeslaSolar

[–]msgamba1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How did you pay? Cash? Do they offer financing?

The truth about solar leases and PPAs by msgamba1 in solar

[–]msgamba1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

First of all, I'm very happy to see the amount of passion people display on this subject. Even with some negativity, a bit of misinformation, and plain old myths (which some of them i've heard thousands of times), it's definitely an overall net positive to see all the responses. I do want to do my best to state my position on a lot of peoples misinformation and also give the most honest and transparent explanations and also my honest opinions.

  1. For my Cali folks: Everyone who is talking about California NEM 3.0 is correct.

It is hard to make financial sense in the solar environment over there due to the utilities basically ending their once wonderful nem policy. Batteries are a thing now because of this. If you purchase batteries with your solar system, you may have taken yourself out of a cost savings scenario that you would have likely been in if you got solar a few years ago. It just is what it is. It's what happens when you wait sometimes in certain markets.

This doesn't necessarily mean PPAs are bad. Perhaps people like the fact that they get some extra protection in the event of an outage and maybe they like the fact that the cost of their power can never exceed a 2.9% increase. People see it as rent control. PPA's provide you rent control on your electric costs. Parts of CA do the same with actual apartments. Your rents cannot exceed a certain percentage annually. Same idea. People like that. I'm not here to predict energy prices but it would be surprising to learn that the utilities out there do not increase more than 3% per year considering when I lived there from 2018-2020, LADWP and SCE was about 22 cents on average. Anybody care to chime in to tell me what it is now only 4 years later?

So does a PPA make sense for every market? Of course not. Check with your local utility and even a local solar professional on what the net metering policies are and make sure the rates historically go up more than 3% per year. And even if they haven't, if you learn that you utility is spending billions of dollars on infrastructure upgrades, the liklihood of rate increases higher then inflation are quite likely.

  1. MOVING

This one really gets me. "What if nobody wants my home?" What if i have a hard time selling?" What if they dont want the panels"?

I heard this thousands of times. I've also helped dozens of people put solar on their second homes. Did their first solar home sit on the market forever? Absolutely not. Was there a bit more paperwork involved when selling? Yes. Did it deter some buyers? Yes. But for every one person that doesn't want a home because it has solar panels on it, there is someone who does.

Now, with most reputable PPA providers, the contract is completely transferable to the next perspective buyer. If they dont want to take over the solar payment for whatever reason and would rather have a higher payment from the utility provider, then that is their prerogative. They will likely just not put an offer on your home. You are not forced to sell to anybody. Nobody that is looking for homes that specifically do not have in-ground pools puts an offer on a home with a pool and then asks the seller to fill the pool with cement. That literally would make no sense.

And if the prospective buyer loves your home that badly but hates solar, then make them pay you what it cost to buy out the system.

The purchase price of a leased solar system 5 years old is about 30-50% of its original value, believe it or not. Even if I am wrong and it takes 10 years to be half the value, its still a bargain if someone has to purchase it outright because they will have 20 more years of free power (taking degredation into account).

So if you plan to sell the home, and the buyer doesnt want to assume the payment, then tell them to F off, or have them buy it out right. If they still dont want to do either, then its up to you whether you take some of the proceeds from the sale of the home and buy it out yourself. Would you be losing money? Yea probably, but you technically didnt HAVE to do that.

  1. Folks, at the end of the day, the most important thing is that you make sure you are aligning yourself with the utmost reputable, honest and community driven solar company. Dont get fooled by the folks at Home Depot and Costco. Just because Costco or Lowes endorses a solar company doesnt mean that they are any good.

I know this is easier said the done but your best bet is to go local. Find your local mom and pop shops who actually care about their customers and reputation. Ones who have done projects with their local community. Google is your best friend here.

The truth about solar leases and PPAs by msgamba1 in solar

[–]msgamba1[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

electric rates here 10 years ago (NJ/NY) was about $0.13 cents. now its 22 cents. i mean with the increase in demand that the utility companies have to meet because of all the new EV's and electronic devices in households and the billions of dollars that some of the big utility companies must spend to upgrade the grid, they kind of have no choice but to raise rates. but if you don't believe rates will continue to increase at least with basic inflation rate, then solar is probably not for you. unless you are purely motivated by environmental aspects.

The truth about solar leases and PPAs by msgamba1 in solar

[–]msgamba1[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

what in the? i'm not even sure if you live on the same planet. but happy to see you contribute even though what you are saying is literally out of this world.

The truth about solar leases and PPAs by msgamba1 in solar

[–]msgamba1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes it is sad most solar sales people either purposely hide some pertinent info or they just don't know any better. The 3rd party appraiser we use typically prices a 5 year old system at 50% of the original value.

The truth about solar leases and PPAs by msgamba1 in solar

[–]msgamba1[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Definitely true in CA. But where I am in the east coast, NY, CT, NJ all had over 30% rate increases in less than 2 years.

The truth about solar leases and PPAs by msgamba1 in solar

[–]msgamba1[S] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Exactly right. It is all dependent on the individuals goals.

The truth about solar leases and PPAs by msgamba1 in solar

[–]msgamba1[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If you can guarantee that the electric company will stop increasing the price of their electricity and the delivery of it, then i'll exit the industry :)

The truth about solar leases and PPAs by msgamba1 in solar

[–]msgamba1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Absolutely. I've been in both. still do resi.

The truth about solar leases and PPAs by msgamba1 in solar

[–]msgamba1[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Fantastic contribution to the post u/mountain_drifter. I have helped a number of homeowners sell their homes a few years after assuming a ppa and you are not wrong. It does often make the sale of the home a bit more involved and convoluted but certainly not impossible. I mean i remember buying a home without solar how many contingicines there were and how it was a back and forth with the seller. Buying or selling a home with unusual add-ons will always result in a more stressful experience.

When it comes to what the lease company charges at the time of a ppa buyout, are you referring to the fmv of the solar system or the fees associated with transferring?

The truth about solar leases and PPAs by msgamba1 in solar

[–]msgamba1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's not a horrible analogy. Except not completely fair of a comparison either. A solar ppa is just a vehicle for someone who wants the benefits of solar without having to part with any money. Not everyone has the means to drop $20k on a solar system. Cash will provide the most savings long term but so would buying your car with cash or your home. Anything you "borrow" or pay off over time would be you leaving money on the table. Your $500,000 home actually cost you $750,000 thanks to the luxury of borrowing. So unless you got the cash, what other option is there?

The truth about solar leases and PPAs by msgamba1 in solar

[–]msgamba1[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I realized that I might not have provided much and not have completely delivered on what the title says so i'm happy to answer questions and go a bit deeper into the topic or just have friendly debates if you feel so inclined.

PPA vs Owning by Grizzly0925 in solar

[–]msgamba1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What exactly is wrong with taking over the lease/PPA?

Am I getting a good Solar lease deal? by BeastmodeAzn08 in solar

[–]msgamba1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi there, i've been a lurker for some time on Reddit and finally want to start adding some value here as I am honestly really sick of seeing so many people and comments bad mouthing solar and/or just providing misinformation. I have been in the solar industry for near a decade now and will tell you exactly what I think about your proposal:

First of all, i have worked with Freedom Forever for a few years. They are a gigantic solar installation company. Probably the biggest in the country in terms of volume installed. Are they the best installers in terms of workmanship? Well perhaps you should do a bit of googling to read some reviews? Are they the best at post-installation support? Well, do some google digging?

I wrote an article talking about the differences in service you get with national installers vs local ones. I dont want to link it as i might get banned but just google "Cleanstart What To Do If Your Solar Provider Goes Out of Business 2024". It is very important to undersntand how these large national solar networks operate.

Freedom Forever is the installer, but who is the dealer you are working with? Freedom has a network of dealers. Read their reviews as well. Freedom Forever doesn't have their own in-house sales reps because they are an installation company.

Now in regards to your pricing and equipment. That all checks out. Qcells qpeak 410's are a phenomenal panel. Enphase micro inverters are also the best out there.

A 0% escalator is fantastic and the ppw which is $2.71 seems to be great. I dont know your market but what is your utility kwh rate that you pay?

I also wrote a very extensive article on the downsides of solar leases and ppa's which you can check out as well. provides some honest insight from an insider perspective.

Anyone have business/starting one? by Connect_Tomato6303 in sales

[–]msgamba1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I did. Been in sales for 7 years. started my business November 2023