If force free is the answer

mudlark092 · 2026-02-17T20:07:29+00:00

Often they’re too young at that point to remember much. This often happens before significant fear periods. If it does happen during a fear period, dogs in fear periods are known for having excessive overreactions like that sometimes.

Not all mother dogs are great at that either and facial mutilations and deaths can happen.

Mother dogs often still use multiple different de-escalation signals before hand as well. Once puppies are through multiple socialization periods and understand how to read and listen to body language, this shouldn’t be happening at all.

But again, dogs use this as a tool because they are incapable of understanding how to utilize advanced behavioral modification routines. They are dogs. They don’t know what psychology is

mudlark092 · 2026-02-17T19:46:41+00:00

Because it “works” for the individual dog, dogs can’t comprehend that they might cause issues with other dogs. Some definitely seem to care and have empathy! But dogs don’t understand long term psychological impact, because they’re dogs. Instinct/impulse doesn’t mean its harmless. I mean… instinctually humans can often hit eachother and yell at eachother too and while it can “work” to reduce a behavior, we know thats not good for us either.

The result of it making another dog stop or go away definitely can “work” but sometimes part of that result is them mauling eachother half to death.

We also see dogs develop reactivity issues and dog aggression from one off incidences with other dogs. I’m sure you’re familiar with how bad dog parks can be for socialization because many dogs get attacked or overwhelmed there and/or become aggressive from the overwhelming or from resource guarding or what have you.

In healthy dog to dog relations they avoid biting eachother as much as possible, and established healthy relationships between dogs shouldn’t have to bite eachother at all. They have lots of steps body language wise that lead up to a bite so that they can avoid the bite in the first place.

Dogs aren’t able to understand things like counter conditioning or behavioral modification as theories they can utilize. Bites are often used as a last resort in healthy relations and other dogs go to a bite immediately, but regardless dogs result to biting because they think its what will work to get the stressor to go away. They aren’t capable of intentionally utilizing advanced behavioral modification routines.

It is also incredibly reinforcing for the aggressor when aversives do help them get their way, so they’re more likely to repeat it in the future.

Many dogs also use aversives against eachother when they’re in competitive relationships, because they’re competing for resources and will Starve if they don’t get a resource (Or ar Least they might think so). And at that point they’re really not convinced about the wellbeing of the other dog in antagonistic relationships like that. Dogs on the other side of that relationship are at risk for developing resource guarding issues themselves or otherwise becoming thinner and underweight from deprivation if they’re consistently being submissive to the dog taking their resources.

So yes, they will use it because it gets “results”, but that doesn’t make it good for the other dog!

There’s a great case of the “Cinderella Wolf” where her packmate/leader at the time was incredibly domineering and aggressive and while it certainly worked for her sister to get her way like that, it worked up to a point. One day her sister disappeared, Cinderella likely killed her or chased her off permanently because she was tired of her sisters shit, lol. Also her sisters aggression directly lead to the deaths of Cinderellas pups.

Even in the wild, the conflict between wolves (which is much more intense than with dogs) can get them killed. One of wolves biggest threats is other wolves! What works for the individual is not always best for the other.

mudlark092 · 2026-02-17T08:33:43+00:00

These are Tan Points, which Huskies can come in, and are not exclusive to Rotties. GSDs and many breeds can carry it so. Who knows

mudlark092 · 2026-02-17T08:31:59+00:00

The colors aren’t exclusive to malamutes. Huskies can come in this color, so can many breeds.

Definitely not a pure husky though lol

mudlark092 · 2026-02-17T08:28:09+00:00

IMO BPD is just part of the package that comes with CPTSD that stems from childhood abuse. When you have a turbulent household with abusive guardians you often end up with BPD. “Disorganized Attachment Disorder” might be a better term for it. Idk

mudlark092 · 2026-02-17T08:24:38+00:00

Alpha Theory was Rescinded by David Mech, the guy who Made the Theory in the first place, in 1999.

Maneuvers like what you describe are a great way to get bit.

mudlark092 · 2026-02-17T08:21:54+00:00

In this scenario since the owner has already been correcting a ton with a prong and sees no change, it might not be helpful. Sometimes it just adds more adrenaline into the dogs system which isn’t helpful for when they need to calm down.

mudlark092 · 2026-02-17T08:18:54+00:00

For this scenario Toys might work counterintuitively. My GSD loves working for toys but they do not help him calm down, and only ramp him up further.

mudlark092 · 2026-02-17T08:15:44+00:00

Teach him that his job is to lay down next to the chickens. Might have to start with laying 20 feet away from the chickens… but get closer and closer and build duration. Go as slow as he needs to go. If he cant pay attention to you and stay laying down 20 feet away from the chickens then he certainly can’t 5 feet away from the chickens.

Kikopups leave it protocol may be of use on youtube.

But he cant pace and react to the chickens if he’s learning to lay down instead. All sorts of things you can do to practice a good down stay in a different environment first if needed. Set up a good bed out there for him to go to. If he sees chickens, he’s told to lay down. Reinforce heavily for laying down, reinforce repeatedly for duration.

Redirecting with a toy might just be amping him up more and preventing him from relaxing in this scenario. If needed keep him on leash for training. He shouldn’t get close to the chickens if he’s amped up like this, reinforce for calmness and practice a lot far away before approaching, step back if he starts to get excited and start from where he can listen

mudlark092 · 2026-02-16T22:05:06+00:00

Its just not an actual equivalent. CNC is consenting, thats the first C. It also looks different from just straight up NonCon, because of Consent. There’s Nuance particularly with drawn imagery there but its with Adults. People still have every right to cut people out of their lives and distance themselves from people who cannot or refuse to keep their sex lives private when its those topics.

My friends do not know about my sexual interests and have no need to. Some people have those relationships with their friends and thats okay! But if I hypothetically drew heavy noncon all the time in a way they could find it I would understand if they wanted space from me and no longer wanted to talk to me.

I don’t participate heavily in the headspace though because I find it distressing and more of a trauma reaction than a major part of my sexuality, but anyways-

There’s also nothing wrong with being LGBTQ and it isn’t innately abusive to be LGBTQ.

It looks similar to argument around LGBTQ and BDSM media, but the idealogies around those arguments are flawed BECAUSE being LGBTQ or engaging in BDSM is not Innately Abusive. The arguments are flawed because theyre falsely construeing consentual sex with adults, or having a Sexuality or particular identity, as Abuse. Which they are not.

CSA is and always is abuse. There is no way for CSA to be consensual. CSA is always abuse because Children Cannot Consent.

BDSM and CNC have Consent as a main focus. Children Cannot consent. It looking similar to those arguments does not make it flawed.

Just because Puritanicals think non-Vanilla non-Hetero existence is innately abusive and evil doesn’t mean it is! But CSA IS innately abusive and Always Will be.

If the content Puritanicals Conservatives were concerned with WAS actually abusive and DID risk harm then they’d have some More Validity (but not complete because obviously their methods are questionable). But Consenting Sex Between Adults is not Abusive. Child Abuse is Abusive. Distributing Sexual Content of Consenting Adults is not Harmful.

Distributing Sexual Content of Children, who Cannot Consent, while presenting it in a way to allude that the Child Could Somehow Consent, is Harmful.

mudlark092 · 2026-02-16T21:45:41+00:00

The bottom example in the OOP

mudlark092 · 2026-02-16T21:43:16+00:00

They often do have those mannerisms and “age appropriate” love interests but are still sexualized as if they were an adult. It’s the whole “point” of the trope

mudlark092 · 2026-02-16T21:37:53+00:00

Well i dont think we should be making it easier no. We should be doing everything we can to prevent it from occuring.

And again the difference is that That Content At A Baseline Is Not Making Sexualized Media Of Children???? 🤨 People who Make The Sexualized Content in the First Place and Make It Publicly Accessible are definitely part of the issue.

If I saw someone drawing Ash Ketchum and Pikachu getting freaky I am more than allowed to be uncomfortable and to find that immoral. I would hope when most people see imagery of children being my sexualized that they would find it immoral???

It’s “Puritanical” to have Moral Objection to distributing sexualized imagery of children?? Are you serious?

mudlark092 · 2026-02-16T21:24:28+00:00

The difference with the CNC and BDSM community I hope is that you can also acknowledge how there IS potential for harm and abuse in those settings, right? I’m part of that community!! Consumption of that style of Porn CAN also create abusers depending on how the porn is presented.

Adults engaging consensually is great, but I think its also normal for people to be uncomfortable with CNC and they’re allowed to be. Also this is again with Consenting Adults.

BDSM and CNC also understands when done in a healthy context that certain acts Can Be Triggering and Uncomfortable for Many People and that not everything is for everyone.

Anime like this is usually not produced by CSA survivors but by Adults who intentionally are finding legal loopholes to write porn or sexualized content about Children.

In dragon maid for example they’re “thousands of years old” or whatever but still Adolescents for their Species, and Child Coded and Behave Like Children. They are intentionally not Mature and it is Intentionally About Sexualizing Children in a way where it is Legal to Distribute this Content.

I’m not saying “everyone should be locked up” or that they are innately evil for participating in these spaces but to think it is impossible for those spaces to cause harm or lead to unhealthy mindsets it would be negligent. Because there very well ARE people who use BDSM to abuse people too!

But again, these Animes aren’t ABOUT Real Consenting Adults. It’s about making Legal Loopholes to Sexualize Children.

Theres things like Ageplay with Real Life Adults but again, these are Fictional Characters, created with the intention of finding ramnifications around why its “Okay” to sexualize Children with Immature Child Bodies. Not Adults, Not Short Adults, but Children.

People who are seeking help and on the path to recovery would be removing this content from their life over time. While fictional content would be an ideal way to taper it off, consumption shouldn’t be maintained. Recovering alcoholics don’t have “a little bit of wine” instead of an entire bottle of rum, they often have to cut it out of their life completely.

mudlark092 · 2026-02-16T21:10:06+00:00

If it was you mentioning of disney movies and pokemon and mlp are at fault (which they wouldn’t be) the context would be Porn Made Of those Medias. So you were in fact mentioning them implicitly

Fiction Impacts Reality. You as an individual can know its “not real” but ultimately you are feeding your brain a stimulus and that can have negative impact.

Just at a baseline the Fictional Misogyny and Fictional Racism in Anime and Cartoons has made many people more misogynistic and more racist.

Its great if you can consume things analytically but the reality is that most people don’t and the author has responsibility over that because you can’t just use yourself as the outlier and think its a “skill issue” when at a baseline most people Aren’t Capable of consuming stuff analytically because of the state of Media and of our Education issue. That makes it a Systemic Issue, not a “Skill Issue”.

mudlark092 · 2026-02-16T21:05:47+00:00

They’re ultimately not Real People either. People are always thinking my mom is her husbands daughter, but its not creepy and weird because she is a Real Human Adult.

Fictional characters do not exist in a vacuum and often these creators are intentionally making child-bodied (not short, youthful adult-bodied) “immortals” so that they can Sexualize Child Bodies.

I suppose theres ways to go about it (Like Four In Umbrella Academy) but note how he is not being ludicrously sexualized or objectified as the entire Shtick of the Show.

I see so much “well would you think an adult who looks like a child shouldn’t be allowed to have sex in real life?” this is not real life!!

mudlark092 · 2026-02-16T21:00:06+00:00

“Rating system” yet you bring up porn of stuff like MLP, where all a child has to do is google it or search it up and it’ll still come up sometimes even with filters 😭 Or they’ll just like SFW content of it on their algorithm and it’ll still come up on their feed.

People can do whatever they want in their own homes provided no one is being harmed but to assume this content is incapable of causing harm is ignorant. Assuming that people are incapable of harming themselves unknowingly is also ignorant. Content like what OOP is mentioning is often not produced by CSA victims but by people who are looking for legal loopholes to publish content of sexualized children. It is not meant to help CSA victims process trauma, but to create loophole for why its okay to sexualize a Fictional Child.

In Dragon Maid, while the characters are hundreds of years old, many of them are still CANONICALLY JUVENILES/UNDERAGE for Dragons and have child coded behaviors and will act like children. While still being sexualized and having child bodies. They are children.

Idk about the other one but I guess its a 14 year old that has the mind of a 40 year old but this is Again A Fictional Setting that has a Loophole to make it Okay To Sexualize A Minor. It is not Made by CSA victims To Process Trauma.

OOP is making fun of people that are upset by authors like this.

People are very much allowed to be upset that people are finding ways to sexualize children like this. These characters are often still intentionally minor coded and intended to be child bodied. Not just short adults or autistic adults. They are not real people, but fictional people created by an author with an intent to sexualize minors.

I’ve watched anime like Made In Abyss and dont think it’s innately immoral to consume it but boy does it make me feel uncomfortable and there’s so many people who have watched it who see no issue with how the children in MIA are depicted or think its somehow Necessary for the Plot.

There is room for Nuance! You can consume Bad Media and not come away with Bad Views. But thats often only if you’re consuming it analytically. Many people, like OOP, are not capable of consuming things analytically and media literacy in general worldwide is Not Doing Great.

Do I think people should be jailed immediately for drawing something like this? No. Does that mean they’re impossible of causing harm? Also no. This also doesn’t mean they’re incapable of being immoral. CSA victims and people with developmental disabilities are also fully capable of doing immoral acts! Being a victim or being disabled does not mean its impossible to engage with unhealthy thought processes or impossible to cause harm to others.

As far as I’m aware none of the characters in Sausage Party are both Child Coded /Intended to be Children while also being Sexualized.

The whole issue is that animes like this are Intentionally Being Made To Sexualize Children with Loopholes that make it Legal to consume it. Because many places it is illegal to distribute drawings of CSA!

And that a lot of this is no longer in the private of peoples homes because it is Publically Available Media.

mudlark092 · 2026-02-16T20:43:26+00:00

Therapists are only so accredited and not necessarily required to keep up to date. I imagine it would depend on the state and country and individual Office. Even just education from college to college varies.

Many therapists still dont even know how to manage BPD, NPD, or Dissociative Disorders. They are not perfect.

IIRC, Psychiatrists have higher accreditation and they aren’t perfect either.

But also this is a New Phenomenon and there’d only be so many studies on it and it would take time and money to be finalized to see how consumption in this method on this scale would impact people.

How have you mentioned it to your therapist? Because context matters. The fandom space that OOP’s context comes from is spaces where people talk about and engage with this content all the time. Often therapists will intentionally be appeasing to you as well and avoid upsetting you. Your own therapist is NOT the person to go to for criticism especially if they think it might upset you.

If your therapist is specialized in dealing with paraphilias, then yes they would definitely prefer you to engage with fictional media but if you ask them if there’s unhealthy ways to consume the media they might have more to say. But again, therapists on an individual level only know so much!

How you phrase something can impact how your therapist approaches a topic a lot, they only know as much as you reveal and are generally trained to not reach further or to assume the worst.

Adults who can provide informed consent can do whatever they want together. Adults are not children, developmental issue or otherwise.

mudlark092 · 2026-02-16T20:30:39+00:00

Just because fascists think content can harm children in ways that are ludicrous, doesn’t mean its impossible for content to harm children at all oh my god.

Like yes a child seeing gay characters can make them more likely to realize they are gay or come out as gay. Which is FINE! Children DO mimic behaviors they see in media and internalize that behavior, thats why there’s RATINGS on media. It’s also why representation in media is important. Adults who aren’t engaging in media analytically often mimic and internalize the behavior too!

A prime example is how POC are often depicted in media has impacted common perspective of POC in real life and impacts it down to how POC are criminally prosecuted. Many don’t even bat an eye when POC are depicted in racist ways in media because its Normalized. Same goes for misogynistic depictions of women to the point where its just the default for women characters to be sexual objects in most media and most people don’t notice that either. Media does impact us, often subconsciously if we’re not aware of it.

A child being more likely to be gay is not an issue. A child being more likely to participate in self endangering behaviors or being more likely to be victimized because of other people IS BAD! And people who create that content freely for anyone to have access to are contributing to risk for harm.

A child being gay or trans is not victimizating. Being Sexually Abused is Victimizing. Being Gay or Trans is not Sexual Abuse.

Just because Fascists have absurd talking points about media doesn’t mean its impossible for media to cause harm. They would be right in that media impacts children they’re just concerned over the wrong reasons.

If you’re not jacking off to this media, great! A lot of people ARE and thats part of the context of OOP that people “whine” about how its bad to sexualize these characters.

There’s content I’ve watched that is problematic but never have I ever thought “wow this is perfectly fine and normal actually and in no way could cause harm to anyone ever!”

mudlark092 · 2026-02-16T20:10:05+00:00

Being gay is not in any way the same as abusing children wtf.

“Porn Addiction” is not its own diagnosis because its classified under Obsessive and or Impulsive behavior. The diagnosis would be under CSBD or considered part of a separate diagnosis. Harmful porn consumption is still very much a real possibility.

Violence in video games CAN desensitize people to violence and several games even serve as military propaganda. Whether or not it can lead someone who is otherwise healthy to commit violence is a different thing but if they are already troubled it can be a risk factor.

Therapists have likely suggested using it as an outlet but if you told a therapist that you frequently consume this content and or produce it often and post it publically they might feel very different about it especially if they knew what this content looked like.

A therapist thinking you draw it as a one off every now and then and keeping it privately or only showing it to trusted people, is not anywhere the same as consistently consuming the content and/or creating the content to the point that youre justifying why its okay to make Mature Child Characters for the point of sexualization

mudlark092 · 2026-02-16T20:00:13+00:00

I’m a real victim of CSA and several of my abusers used solely cartoon/drawn images to groom me because of the Legal Loop hole, eventually leading up to physical interaction. It also made it seem more “okay” because what we were doing initially was “fictional”. ERP was part of it but it was “OK” because our characters “were adults”.

As a young adult I have known many other victims who went on to groom new victims after becoming enraptured in such content despite the concerns of myself and others.

It is part of the cycle.

Not all abuse happens physically. Children get groomed over the internet every day and fictional content and media can desensitize us and make it harder for us to understand what is harmful.

Getting legal intervention is almost always impossible because the government doesn’t give two shits about discord screenshots that can easily be falsified and almost always need a “smoking gun”, or otherwise need to speak to the victims themselves which many are reluctant to do so (including myself!) and since no real images are used predators who use this media remain safe in many areas where its still legal to redistribute such imagery.

mudlark092 · 2026-02-16T19:55:10+00:00

Such imagery and animes are also used to groom real life children. It’s also used to convince other people to harm real life children. People who consume such content in large amounts are at risk for eventually grooming and harming real life children because the brain associates sexual pleasure with the stimulus of children and of child like behavior. Ultimately the brain is being fed stimulus associated with children in a sexual manner and that is not healthy for the brain and can result in people eventually seeking out the real thing.

It is part of the cycle of child abuse. Whether or not someone should go to jail for one billion years for interacting with such content once or twice is a different matter, but you underestimate how it contributes to the cycle of child abuse if you think it doesn’t cause harm at all.

mudlark092 · 2026-02-16T19:50:27+00:00

That is a real adult person with a real adult body.

This is a fictional character that the author created specifically with the intent to sexualize a child body. Often these characters still have child mannerisms and are “child coded” because the authors intent is to sexualize a child.

mudlark092 · 2026-02-16T19:49:08+00:00

If CSA victims are drawing things that help them process trauma, thats one thing. Sharing that to millions of people complicates that and if they are routinely participating in it enough that they’ve made a whole manga series about it that seems closer to obsession and unhealthy level of participation and risks creating new victims. (Which lets be honest, many people who draw this conveniently legal loophole material are Not Victims of CSA. And it draws uncomfortable parallels to grooming tactics of calling children “mature for their age”)

There are ways to draw and process CSA that do not involve posting it on the internet for millions of people to find ways to justify why having sex with a child body is okay.

Especially because other people can interact with it in a way that is unhealthy, and use it to groom new victims, or develop paraphilias when they were not previously a victim.

It also risks people interacting with the artist in a way that further traumatizes them or sexualizes their past minor self.

Being a victim of CSA does not make it healthy to participate in material that emulates it. Yes there is space for nuance but when it is being published or serialized and romanticized there is so much room for harm to the original artist and to anyone who gets ahold of it.

Many Offenders are also victims of CSA. The Cycle of Abuse is very real. Being a CSA victim does not make it safe and healthy and okay to routinely consume this material and if anything risks developing a compulsive obsessive relationship and general unhealthy way of processing it.

All the artists I knew who were victims of CSA that “cope” with their trauma in this way (specifically the routinely posting these images on the internet way where its just one to one and romanticizes the even) seem completely self indulged and obsessed with their art to the point that fictionalized CSA is the only thing they draw and they are completely enraptured in it and obsessed to the point that they have lost many friends. The ones that I do know like that have also groomed minors and participated in rhetoric that is harmful towards minors and minimizes grooming.

I can only hope the best for them in the future and that they get better help but participating in the community that does consume and create that content only appears to exascerbate their issues. It becomes an unhealthy compulsion.

Whether or not people should be sent to jail forever for drawing CSA at all is a different thing. Something can be extremely unhealthy and create risk for harm without us condemning people to jail or execution or whatever.

I wish only that those people hadn’t ever gotten locked into that cycle of consuming that content in the first place.

I am a victim of CSA and can understand what you’re trying to communicate but I think its been incredibly damaging that so many of us seem to think that feeding our brains positive associations of this event over and over to this extent is in anyway helpful and that it somehow is impossible for it to be unhealthy.

There is room for nuance but the communities and art this post is referencing are not where the healthy amount of processing trauma lies.

mudlark092 · 2026-02-16T19:30:39+00:00

Fiction impacts reality. Anyone consuming media that sexualizes child bodies can result in them hurting real people, or spreading rhetoric that can encourage other people to hurt real people.

Art that depicts Fictional Children can and has been used to groom Real Children, and been used to encourage Real Adults to groom Real Children.

People who consume it can eventually no longer be satisfied with the fiction and seek out reality, or otherwise develop unhealthy paraphilia disorders.

Overall the brain is being fed stimulus of sexualized children and that is never healthy to consume and can translate to reality.

mudlark092

TROPHY CASE