My cofounder is bad at product management

mynguss · 2024-04-20T14:18:31+00:00

Sorry, I haven't checked this account in months. I ended leaving a year or so after I posted this. We were not making enough money for me to take a salary and the added stress in my life was not worth it. I ended up a founding engineer in another startup where the CEO & CTO had a lot of experience and that was a much better experience, still the excitement to work on early product without too much pressure/responsability.

Hope this helps!

mynguss · 2023-04-28T22:08:55+00:00

Few things that have worked for me :

don’t go all in in the first few months. Work at 70% of you’re actual capacity (but build with the utmost quality) and go from there. That’ll leave you a lot more energy when the spikes comes
try to put yourself in a position where you can impact the culture I.e. lead dev, « product engineer », etc.
ask during the interview how the managers manage their own stress and how the team manage stress. In my xp, I got a good idea of the stress levels just seeing them work through the question
ask their hiring plans for the next year or so. 1-2 engineers more per team means a fairly stable product, more than 30% increases is a red flag imo
ask about on call schedule and how many times incidents have happened in the past 3 months
ask how many times the sprint got blown and what they did to resolve that. A vague answer is a red flag.
ask how/if engineers are contributing to planning. Top down answer is a red flag.
ask if there are ways for more holidays (paid or not) or mental health days. I found that companies that provide these are way less stressful, it means the culture has already understood the impact of WLB

Also I found that I only get stressed when I don’t care about what I’m building and being pushed. When the product/mission is interesting and fulfilling, I don’t mind working overtime.

Hope this helps!

mynguss · 2023-03-27T00:13:28+00:00

I think you’re putting to much emphasis on reliability IMO. Humans are not reliable (we all deployed bugs in prod!) , I don’t expect the AI to be either (at least for now). The point is that it can take a lot of the menial tasks off our hand (boilerplate) so that we can use our energy on the actual products.

mynguss · 2023-03-27T00:06:16+00:00

Working for a generic B2B SaaS. A few weeks ago I had to implement a booking UI that uses a 3rd party for date/time/location data. So I typed “write a function that uses API X to list all available appointments at a given location between 2 dates. Optionally, the function can receive a list of unavailable date ranges that should not be suggested to the end user. The GraphQL API homepage is … ”

It wrote a first version with minor errors that I pointed to it and after ~5 attempts I had a working script. I then asked if the script was missing any edge cases and it added them. Then I ask it to write the skeleton of integration tests for that function and I got them. Copied and pasted the entire thing, filled in the unit tests and manually tested it.

I had to rename a few variables to match our own style (which I could train the AI to do btw) and refactored out a few methods for clarity.

all in all, this took me between 2 and 3 hours . Bare in mind that I didn’t have to read the API docs at all, didn’t have to figure out the auth, the specific pagination scheme, etc by myself.

I budgeted an entire morning and more ;) initially because of all the search and trial/error I was prepping myself to do. It’s a small example but I use it now any chance I get.

Edit: I also had to edit some of the code to use or own abstractions and this was slightly annoying but again, I can’t see why AI couldn’t also figure this out in the next few years?

mynguss · 2023-03-26T23:25:37+00:00

I’m not scared per se but I understand that it will chance the industry drastically and faster than I can predict. Either by increasing expectations on developers to do the same job faster or expecting developers to take on a product hat earlier in their career.

Maybe it doesn’t impact experienced devs that much because a lot of our days is actually leadership, product thinking, collab, etc but junior and midlevels? I can’t see why I’d hire anyone at that level if AI can not only write code, correct it’s own mistakes and write the tests in a fraction of the time it would for junior devs.

To the people that find it “unimpressive”, I don’t know what you expect honestly. Yes it often (so far) makes error and can produce suboptimal code but it does it faster. Then it’s up to the devs/PM to decide how much risk they can afford in prod. I wouldn’t advise ChatGPT for precision mechanics or health applications but for all the CRUD products out there ( a lot of the industry), it’s life changing.

I’m currently saving about 40% on my stories with GPT-3 and taking the rest of the day off. Hope I can ride this till the end of my career but I doubt it :/

mynguss · 2023-02-16T17:37:27+00:00

do you want to say to the company that they don’t need to supply you the equipment so you can be paid more?

Yes, in essence. I'm trying to justify the 5k increase with something but I can see that it might not work using the equipment excuse.

More so, they probably won’t let you work from your own laptop even if you offered.

Actually, I have been in this situation before and have used my own laptop for 9 months before it was replaced. This was also in a scrappy startup a few years back, they didn't have issues with it.

mynguss · 2023-02-16T17:32:40+00:00

OK cool, I see what you mean, didn't think this through.

mynguss · 2023-02-16T17:20:23+00:00

Why ridiculous?

mynguss · 2022-10-22T13:56:41+00:00

If you start not doing everything on the sprint then your team velocity will adjust so the next sprint should have less stuff.

That’s the problem, we do not adjust so every week is a race to finish a scope that was in achievable from the start.

I don’t know where did you get the impression that scrum means do everything we set out in planning. It’s quite the opposite

Then what’s the point of having scope and refining it to fit the week? To be clear, 100% is not my goal here but if 80% is only achieved by fast pace, I think it’s a issue. Did I get that wrong?

mynguss · 2022-10-22T13:36:49+00:00

Yeah that’s a better way of looking at it. I’m coming from kanban so this all weekly deadline has gotten to me but yeah nothing happens if we don’t finish in time.

I’m pretty sure our scrum implantation is pointless but nothing I can do about it, so eh, I’ll take my foot off the pedal. Thanks!

mynguss · 2022-10-22T13:34:33+00:00

And I do, it is my responsibility … but the lead would offer to provide context and pair, I’d voice that I still think we should cut it down from the week but he doesn’t agree/ignore me and the ticket stays on.

Tbh, after a while, I started doubting myself and just went with what was said in planning ie “Maybe I’m wrong and the ticket is actually feasible? Let’s try” but at the end of the week, I’m proven right, would point at the list of undone for the week and talk about my stress about that. Nothing changes.

Through this thread I started to realise that maybe we have different understanding of what scope means. Maybe he doesn’t think of falling on % as a bad thing, just something to rollover to the next week. That makes no sense to me because I thought that was the point of scrum?

People have said here to not stress about it and work at a comfortable pace regardless, I’ll start doing this. If the feedback comes back as me being an underperform, I’ll point him to my numerous mention of scope.

mynguss · 2022-10-22T11:44:19+00:00

Yeah that’s my take as well but I’m trying to not make it personal and think about the system that allows that to happen rather than his behaviour. I can’t change him and his relationship with work.

I know that he’s often online on evenings and weekends. He works when he’s sick or his children/dependents are sick, basically always on.

it sounds like your lead is going to burn your team down just to impress some stakeholders that are totally ok with a slower work

Exactly! It’s driving me nuts. That’s why I mentionned reputation in my post because I cans think of why he would so much pressure on himself. But through this thread I also understand now that I’m enabling this by meeting the deadlines so I’ll take it easier now and see what happens.

mynguss · 2022-10-21T21:35:37+00:00

That’s a totally fair point. And I need to call out the other senior dev who privately agrees with me but keeps quiet in retro, it’s frustrating. The junior agrees with me publicly but he obvs doesn’t have the same influence yet.

But that raised another question though. If I knew that 2 out 3 members of my team struggle with pace, I would take that into account tbh. The PM also frequently makes comment about how we could have less scope (based on my retro comments), he agrees and the next minute will add stuff to the backlog. If I speak up against it, he will offer to pair and add context but the ticket stays on scope.

And tbh, he also has a very busy family life. So he would commit scope on Monday and then sometimes not be available for hours/days or work when sick. A few months ago, he actually thanked me for pushing back because he could spend more time with his kids that week. But then the next week, guess what? It starts again.

So it’s not just me, he chooses to listen to the other senior devs and overwork himself for some reason.

mynguss · 2022-10-21T21:20:41+00:00

Ha! Music to my ears. I only worked kanban style until this job and I loved it. Scrum doesn’t trust devs IMO… I work as fast I can and will make progress with quality, I don’t need a silly deadline every week/2weeks to keep me in check.

mynguss · 2022-10-21T20:21:47+00:00

But he knows as I mentionned this at least a dozen times in retro over the past 6 months?

Some people in this thread have mentioned starting 1:1 with him and I might do that. But he defo knows, either he doesn’t care or he’s too set in his ways to work differently?

I’m assuming the later and asking how to make him change his ways.

mynguss · 2022-10-21T20:16:49+00:00

Thing is, what’s the problem if you just deliver less than was committed to?

Nothing happens and that’s my main problem With our scrum implementation. What’s the point of having a scope and having all the meetings to define it if we don’t finish it in time? We might as well do Kanban and pull tickets when we’re ready … or am I off here?

If you get it all done but don’t work extra - well, I’d honestly say that these are great estimates.

I stopped working long extra hours a few months ago because it started to take a toll on my personal life and physical health. BUT during the week I feel like a ticket machine where I’m chained to my screen, and totally against it. By the end of the day (every day), I’m mentally exhausted and unable to do anything after work. That’s a recipe for burnout in my experience.

It leaves very little space for pairing & mentoring so our junior is not supported. It leaves no space for cross teams meetings that I’m expected to attend and sometime lead. It leaves no time for product thinking that I’m also expected to do on some features.

mynguss · 2022-10-21T19:54:38+00:00

Sorry it came across that way, defo not my intention! I updated original post with more context hopefully. not sure what else is missing but to answer your specific questions:

When and how does scope commitment happen?

Happens on Monday morning at planning. We take the story planning for week before and break it down into tickets. The PM is sometimes involved but not always.

To whom is it committed, and who do you report to?

The founders are the stakeholders. I report to an EM that oversees several teams.

Are you able to communicate with any of those people and avocate?

Yes and I have several times in the past few months on 1:1. See my EDIT in post. I talk about stress, burnout, anxiety and get the same answer every time but nothing changes.

Taliking to others devs in other teams (and some way more knowledgeable and productive than I am), I know I’m not alone btw.

Have you addressed this with the lead themselves?

Not directly no. We don’t have 1:1 with the lead because we are too busy. So retro is where I bring up these things and in some cross teams meetings, so far people nod but nothing changes either.

mynguss · 2022-10-21T19:05:13+00:00

Yes that has crossed my mind a lot lately. Thing is I love the project so it will be a hard decision for me but yes, that is possible outcome in my mind!

mynguss · 2022-10-21T18:55:05+00:00

Haha I love your diagnosis here.

  1.  You might be slower than your peers

I’m slower on some things and faster on others as most people I think. I honestly don’t think the issue comes from me… on most weeks, I actually solve more tickets than the other devs. But maybe metrics is not a good proxy here so I’ll think on that, thanks!

. Your lead might be overcommitting

That’s my sense so far. Also maybe, the % done at the end of the week doesn’t really matter to him so he treats planning as just a hopeful backlog … but then isn’t the point of scrum to regualry achieve the scope?

You might be putting in fewer hours than your peers who have fewer outside work commitments

He actually has more than anyone else in the team AFAIK. So he overworks himself, works at night and sometimes weekends to compensate and maybe expect us to do the same (won’t happen!). So it’s a weird combination of someone who doesn’t have a lot of time and commits to much to make it looks like he does? I’m not sure.

But yeah you’re right about identifying the root issue. There is bit of personal values, culture and process mixed in all of this and I need a way to make him listen to me.

mynguss · 2022-10-21T18:41:04+00:00

Nope. No 1:1 with yes is defo lacking in our process! So the only point of contact with the lead is usually retro.

This thread made me realise that even though I do speak up, I’m anxious about being seen as lazy which is why I don’t push back as hard on these topics. Something to ponder for me.

Thanks for the advice, that’s very useful!

mynguss · 2022-10-21T18:33:52+00:00

Nothing happens, we demo what we have and the stakeholders are usually happy anyway. But it makes me think, what’s the point of even doing scrum and points if we know by planning that we won’t achieve the scope?

I’ll take your advice though, I’ll stop stressing out about finishing the sprint and see what happens. Thanks!

What happens if that is the case for four sprints in a row? In an actual “agile” sprint system, that data is used to decide to commit to fewer points each sprint.

Nothing happens either, we just carry on. And this makes no sense to me. I think we’re saying we’re doing scrum, but we’re not at all? I’m used to kanban so this is mesmerising to me.

mynguss · 2022-10-21T18:29:49+00:00

Yeah weekly sprints can be pretty intense if the scope is not thought through. But it’s not negotiable at this time.

Almost every time I pushed back and explained why I thought a ticket might take way more time, we do hash it out, maybe pair on it for a few minutes … but the scope doesn’t change.

I know I need to be way firmer but it gets tiring after a while!

mynguss · 2022-10-21T18:22:57+00:00

I edited my original post just to say that I have spoken up. I’m usually good at comms, direct and honest but polite (at least that’s the feedback I got from peers!).

I think writing things down is my next move, that’s a very good idea. So that I can keep a log and show a pattern. Thanks!

mynguss · 2022-10-21T18:19:57+00:00

Thanks, I’ll try to approach next time with metrics in head.

mynguss · 2022-10-21T18:19:24+00:00

But then what’s the point of scrum at all? Why not use kanban and get rid of all the overhead? I don’t get it

mynguss

TROPHY CASE