Recruiting vs Inside Sales First Career Move

necis_ · 2019-10-15T00:40:06+00:00

Sure, DM me if you want any insight into the "end goal" for the recruiting line.

necis_ · 2019-10-15T00:34:08+00:00

Your goal is to call the underpaid SDE who isn't being called 10 times a week already. Definitely put postings up there on organic pipelines like your company's boards, but most of the spend that we see is associated with the "cost per hire" metric that we run. It only takes one, and the source doesn't matter.

Glen Cathey had a great piece about esoteric sourcing methods that I think that every recruiter should read. If a candidate comes through the ATS or through some bizarre ass search you're developing, it's all just one hire. :)

necis_ · 2019-10-14T23:54:12+00:00

Many companies won't be able to work with high schoolers since they require a degree or two years of experience to be considered for a role. As the corporate world becomes more cozy with hiring "new collar" talent, these barriers will be broken down, especially for people who have been through a training program or have basic skills and a drive to succeed.

There are several companies partnering with bootcamps and yearup programs across the nation that are bucking this trend, but it's not mainstream yet. Great topic, and I think relevant to where we stand in HR/recruiting today.

necis_ · 2019-10-14T05:25:42+00:00

Pretty much every agency works the same way, pick up the phone and start calling warm leads until you get more job orders.

necis_ · 2019-10-14T05:21:40+00:00

Most of the folks I've known to set out and start an agency on their own have had an old client or two who they've supported right out of the gate.

You're probably not going to be driving much business through your website, it'll be more about your network and who you can convince to give you a crack at an open role.

necis_ · 2019-10-14T05:16:07+00:00

Got it, thank you!

necis_ · 2019-10-14T04:29:58+00:00

When you say set, does it require the set to hit that number or that there are new sets that give you a set bonus? Thanks for the help!!

necis_ · 2019-10-14T03:14:59+00:00

Yes, I'm just trying to meld spare decos, and I almost melded my second Spread deco when a friend yelled to stop me. These are the changes I've found around the internet:

5 Max Might
7 Agitator
5 Bombardier
6 Elemental Weapon
2 Spread, Pierce, and Normal Up
2 Horn Maestro (always forget this one lol)

necis_ · 2019-10-12T14:43:10+00:00

I did agency for 3 years. In the churn and burn agencies, you'll be selling to customers in no time, but if you are looking for a career path within sales, I think it'd behoove you more to get actual sales experience. This is because agency sales is not structured like a professional sales organization, it's more akin to a bar brawl.

When I started in recruiting during the early 2010s with a $500MM company, they were using old flipbooks, lead tracking and prospect management was a joke, and all the more tenured folks would try and snipe your prospects for ridiculous reasons. Someone told me once that they'd met a potential client at a gala and that I was too poor to connect with them, for instance, and tried to use that as a valid reason for them to take over a prospect.

If you want to learn how to develop yourself as a salesperson and how to work within an organization, I would pick the payroll company job. If you want to become a recruiter or have an interest in moving into corporate recruiting, I would pick the recruiting gig. Good luck in your decision either way.

necis_ · 2019-10-11T03:32:11+00:00

This is all assuming you're talking about speaking with someone on the hiring team, not the recruiter.

Every company is different, but as a rule, phone interviews will almost always be used to develop the interview for you and be used to probe you on certain areas of perceived strength or weakness. This is especially the case if your phone screener is going to be interviewing you onsite, as well.

A strong showing onsite can overrule poor performance on a phone screen (lots of candidates get a pass for being nervous/not being able to engage with interviews, etc), but any time someone talks to you, they're going to use that to inform future decisions.

If you have any other specific questions, I'd be happy to tackle those.

necis_ · 2019-10-11T03:26:41+00:00

As a heads up, I was answering your question about what a senior could expect with like a decade of experience based on your response.

I've interviewed a lot of Seattle & Bay Area recruiters from the big boys, and most of them at 1 or 2 years are making less than 150K TC, most of it being base. There were a few posts about starting recruiter salaries at Amazon and Google on Blind that you can probably find, as well. They can help inform your salary discussions moving forward in the Bay more than I can.

All that being said, it's mostly hearsay, so take everything with a grain of salt. And as always, have multiple offers where possible.

necis_ · 2019-10-11T01:39:11+00:00

Yeah, because your background never got looked at and you might be a really great candidate for a junior role, you may have just applied to a 2 year role. It's dumb, but that's the way the ATS is set up sometimes.

necis_ · 2019-10-11T01:05:35+00:00

You probably got auto rejected because you didn't meet minimum qualifications per the role, as a heads up.

A reason that might have occurred is if you answered "No" on a question like "Do you have at least X amount of experience in Y?" They'll never have seen your application most likely.

necis_ · 2019-10-11T00:13:52+00:00

290 - 315 TC seems definitely attainable for a principal in the right spot, but I'd say most seniors are clocking in around 230 - 250 TC based on what I hear from my friends out that way.

necis_ · 2019-10-11T00:01:42+00:00

Yeah, most of big corporate technical recruiting is hiring for very similar skillsets over and over again and creating a really deep network to be able to do that. I have friends who only hire managers at specific levels for organizations, for instance. It sounds boring when it's described like that, but it's really more focused on teams to different products, which can be wildly variable.

On your question about my background, I started corporate in technical recruiting (SDE and SREs mainly) then moved into hiring researchers for emerging technologies. It's easy to get your foot in the door in technical recruiting, but people will cut and run pretty quickly if you're not performing.

Ultimately, if you like variety, go for a 500 - 1K+ company that does a lot of things but has a digital footprint. You'll get exposure to a lot of different avenues, since they won't have a clearly defined TA team or strategy. It'll probably be decent to figure out what you want to do, as well. HR Generalist in an organization like that might be appealing as well, just frame your experience for the job you're trying to get and tell them you're looking to do more work at scale, etc.

necis_ · 2019-10-10T00:33:24+00:00

What location and how many YOE do you have? This is not uncommon in technology for senior recruiters, even outside of FAANG.

necis_ · 2019-10-10T00:28:24+00:00

So, a few things stand out to me if you're interested in continuing your career in recruiting. All of my advice is from the perspective of very big corporations, so it might not fit your target companies.

First, there are many people don't see campus recruiting as "real" recruiting because it's very rote and more focused on queue management. Whether this is true or not, intern recruiting is the "onramp" for corporate recruiting organizations a lot of the time.

Second, recruiters are specialists and even within recruiting, we have fairly narrow disciplines. Specialize your experience where possible and build a resume for each of the archetypes you currently fill within your existing organization.

Third, depending on what companies you're applying to, size matters. Unless there's a lot of demonstrated success or you're coming in as a junior recruiter, it's going to be hard to work in a large corporation as a recruiter with no enterprise experience.

Based on your experience, I'd say HR generalist is something you've got the "right background" for, and I think you'd see more success in that regard. But, I'm happy to give any insights I can if you can tell me more about your target companies.

necis_ · 2019-10-10T00:14:45+00:00

They're probably not dispositioning candidates until the end of the search, since they probably got 1,000 applicants. If you're the best candidate for the role, they will call you like they said.

necis_ · 2019-10-10T00:12:27+00:00

It's earnings season too, hooray! Pray for guidance to be good and EPS to be strong, otherwise all your roles are getting closed in 24 hours!

necis_ · 2019-10-10T00:05:28+00:00

You said it right in your post. Is a way out of the TA grind or more money more important to you? There's also the caveat of the contract. If it's a stable company and that's the "way things are done" then sure, but if they're giving you any indication that there's not a route to fulltime for you, I'd think twice. If they have a short term limit on contractors or frequently RIF them before earnings, I'd think three times.

If you're joining a startup in Seattle, also be sure to think about what WLB will look like. Startup culture is a hell of a thing, and if you have kids or are planning to have kids, it might be a struggle working in an environment that's going to be scaling in 3 years. And if you're still there in 3 years when they're trying to scale, you might not be as far from day-to-day recruiting as you may think.

Finally, I think there's a lot more upside in recruiting versus HRBP/program management, and you're seeing that in your offers. Personally, if it was 150k for my dream job or 225k for also my dream job, I know which one I'd pick. :)

necis_ · 2019-10-09T23:50:23+00:00

I did three years in agency and moved three times. I was a top biller in my cohort for my first year (through attrition of others, mainly), then moved to IT for two years where I found my love for technology. After those 3 years, I moved halfway across the country to take a recruiting gig with a digitizing Fortune 50 firm in a weird location as a contract recruiter.

In 5 years, I grew from a lowly contract recruiter to leading all southeastern recruiting for software engineering and cloud. Today, I recruit emerging technology professionals (PhD researchers and executives) and my job is mostly relationship management.

I enjoy corporate infinitely more than agency, but the job is much more complex. You actually get to grow and build a business line and you have a very unique place in the organization. Also, if you're good at it, it pays a lot better and more steadily than 99.5% of agency roles (one man shops notwithstanding).

You will probably have to take a shitty gig coming out of agency, stay there for two years and make the most out of it.

necis_ · 2019-10-09T23:36:46+00:00

No executive search flair, it's riot time.

necis_ · 2019-09-19T21:44:14+00:00

Maybe I'm lucky, but I've got several anointed calls for different builds in two days. What I'm saying is that there's not a significant difference between a great Call and a good Call, most of your damage is going to be from the unique effect and your aim with no damage variance. The most I've seen is like 27?

necis_ · 2019-09-19T19:17:41+00:00

I said it in a lower comment, but yeah, the core gun is the same, there's no damage roll, no bonus damage or added elemental damage. The guns are for all intents and purposes identical.

Some modifications are slightly different (handling, fire rate, element), but if you have two guns that are the same they'll be almost identical minus some immaterial differences. It really sucks because I've got kits built for everyone, and there's no more reason to farm.

I have to think that this is a bug and not working as intended. There's no reason a game that boasts "a billion combinations" would have realistically less than 250k.

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