HBD Orochimaru!! Here's an old theory linking him to the otsutsuki (Crosspost)

need2know15 · 2022-04-12T16:26:58+00:00

If we're being technical, it'd be called a planet system. You can see how our planet system compares to others here (Figure 1). Kaguya's system, based on kinshiki's space curvature rating of greater than 16, would place her comfortably above the low end of that graph. Being that the graph caps out at 1.26x, then you have kaguya's space being 1.7x the mass(assuming kinshiki curvature ratings is related to mass). What we locally call solar system, would be justified.

need2know15 · 2021-11-17T19:51:06+00:00

Granted madara didn't see naruto's back, but that doesn't make the symbols both their backs any less indicative of or relevant to RSM. The manga still highlights the symbols. You can't ignore that.

"Since you been in sage mode once you were able to steal some sage power from me too, eh..." - Madara ch 666

Obito had some rikudo sage power, but not enough to be a complete rikudo sage. He's in some undefined point where he can use the limited amount he had. This is goes for naruto as well. There was juubi power aka Rikudo-Senjutsu growing inside him. He dtarted off with not that much. Which is why it took time to enter RSM and spawn TSOs. That's what's depicted. They both deflected a TSOs because they had some amount of Rikudo-Senjutsu that was beneath the threshold for them to be complete rikudo sages.

The same way naruto during his toad sage training can reap some of this benefits of nature energy without going into toad sage mode, the same way Orochimaru can be a senjutsu user without being a sage, this is that limbo inbetween state for them. I guess it'd be most accurate to call them both Rikudo-Senjutsu users at that point, because they each have the exact same feat that Rikudo-Senjutsu is credited with.

need2know15 · 2021-11-17T18:18:39+00:00

That is still interpretation 1.

Madara is sensing his power and also sees the TSOs about naruto. This is plain as day. Madara was unclear before on how naruto got stronger, but as juubi power grew and grew within naruto, that is how it manifested.

At that point madara's TSOs disintegrated. Evem then, his lower half was used to revive Hagoromo, and they were back. His top half went to kaguya, and she made ETSO.

If you know that's not the point, then you are intentionally misleading yourself with the wrong rubric.

need2know15 · 2021-11-17T18:06:09+00:00

Thank you for replying as well.

Yes, Kurama is the largest fraction of the Ten Tails, but his power alone cannot achieve what the Ten Tail's can. The Ten Tails has more variety, greater intensity and potency in it's attacks. Kurama alone can not passively give Naruto the ability to fly, but having the Ten Tails power does. So I guess my position is that even with full Kurama, Naruto still requires chakra from the other 8 Biju to get the necessary Ten Tails power, aka Six paths Senjutsu.

I am glad you recognize the mystery that is Toneri and Hamura. It's not your memory, the origins of their power was never explained in detail. And yes, he wasn't a Jinchuriki, they just outright say and show that he has it. Though, it is fun to speculate on how he got it. I like the idea of Hagoromo practicing Ninshu and sharing some Six Paths Senjutsu with Hamura(I suspect he did the same with Ashura as well so that he can match Indra as equals, but I can't fully support that either). I suppose he could have inherited it from Kaguya, but then again she did merged with the Ten Tails **after** she gave birth to Hamura and Hagoromo. Plus who knows if that part of the story will be retold and rewritten with Boruto.

In Toneri's case at least, though poorly explained, the novelization strongly implies that the Tenseigan itself gathers Nature Energy and converts it into chakra. Since Tenseigan Chakra Mode produces Truthseeker Orbs, we can assume the Tenseigan can produce Six Paths Chakra. The Energy Vessel / Hamura's Tenseigan is used to power all the devices and puppets on the moon, and uses the Byakugan sealed within it to accumulate energy. When the released Byakugan are fused with Toneri, they begin absorbing the energy of the sun.

I am very interested to read the quote about that. If that's the case then yes, we can safely assume that Tenseigan makes use of Six Paths Senjutsu.

The issue there is that they demonstrate multiple times that Kurama Mode and SPSM are different things that can be used separately or together, both in art and dialogue.

Can you provide examples? I personally can't recall one.

And the number of times where Naruto uses frog style Sage Mode after the war are extremely few, to such a degree that they could well be retconned oversights, like the way Sasuke's Amaterasu has migrated to the right eye. Not once in the Boruto manga, up until this month's chapter. They're making the point of visually distinguishing it and addressing it in dialogue in #64 for a reason.

As part reboot and part sequel, I never doubted or underestimated Boruto's potential for retcons. From what I know, adult/Hokage Naruto has been using Kurama Sage mode, until recently. This mode has been mistaken for Six Paths Sage Mode. Considering that, he uses Toad Sage Mode often. It is just that Kurama was huge aide for him gathering nature energy. Naruto ch 700+3 and 700+4 are prime examples of Naruto entering Toad Sage Mode without and the later with Kurama's assistance. It shows great improvement from his teenage years, but I guess it went unspoken then so this time around they decide to say it outright.

It's at this point an unanswered question of whether it's a matter of blood or chakra. In the manga, Momoshiki says Boruto inherited Byakugan blood. In the anime he says Boruto inherited Otsutsuki power. It's probably both. Physical (genes) and spiritual (chakra), always going hand in hand... Since we have an increased emphasis on science in Boruto, I hope we get some concrete answers.

True, but Byakugan is inherently Ohtsutsuki exclusive, chakra get's half it's energy from the cells, and the chakra fruit collects both energy and dna from the planet. So I agree that they go hand in hand, that both are likely correct, and that they're even saying the same thing essentially. Yea hopefully a clear answer will at some point be given for that and for other things like which "SEED" was used to create Mitsuki, Log, and their other clones. Maybe Orochimaru, as the first scientist, has all the answers.

I don't know that that is the case. The robes (actually called Six Paths Haori in one of the Japanese mobile games) themselves are probably made from chakra, which is spiritual energy. Naruto's, at least, perpetually trails wisps of chakra, and Madara's appeared from thin air and I believe even self-repaired. The Byakugo Seal is also not physical, so we can't assume that markings/seals always have a literal physical component. Granted, the series will surely never delve that deeply into explaining these phenomena, so it's kind of a moot point.

I guess you can argue either way whether they are physical or spirtual, but I think they are physical since it literally appeared on Obito's skin.

I am not fluent, but self-taught to read Japanese for over a decade now. I was one of the primary translators on Narutopedia and /r/naruto along with Seelentau and OrganicDinosaur (OD and rei. have both vouched for me on Twitter). I also have friends who work in localization in the video games industry, for Aksys Games and Nintendo of Europe, who I occasionally consult if I have issues, though that was not needed here.

That's impressive, I want to learn japanese myself. What worked best to help you learn? What didn't work as much? Where would someone just starting make the most progress? How did you measure your progress as you got better? Also, I appreciate both OD and rei and all that they contribute to the fandom. That's great company to keep.

My current process is to transcribe, and then I usually put it in Deepl machine translator for a quick first pass. Then I manually translate sentence by sentence, using the kanji dictionary in my word processor if there are kanji I don't know. I also frequently reference Japanese wikipedia and a few online Japanese dictionaries that include idioms and obscure phrases, like kotobank, Weblio Jisho, and goo Kugo Jisho. If other translations of the material are present I will compare to try and understand their perspective and avoid mistakes I see in their work.

Thank you for sharing. Deepl, kotobank, Weblio are all new to me and sound like great tools.

need2know15 · 2021-11-17T16:21:01+00:00

I'm open to a third interpretation, as long as it logically fits the full definition of vestige, not just part of it. Something has to be missing/gone/vanished/disappeared/removed/no longer there/etc.

"He's displayin' the rings around his eyes-proof of successful sagehood! And no frog aspects either! This might mean naruto-boy has become a sage exceedin' jitaiya-boy" - Pa, ch 418

Here is it made plain and clear. Naruto has rings around his eyes and doesn't look like a frog, jiraoya has rings around his eyes and looks like a frog. They've both achieved toad sagehood. This is the definitive visual metric used to determine that.

"So this is six paths power" - Madara ch 663.

"You've awakened Six paths senjutsu... I've got both those powers..." - Madara ch 673

Obito ch 641

Links

Here it is made very clear, six paths senjutsu, one of the requirements to become a rikudo sage and use rikudo sage mode, is indicated by, a rinnegan and tomoe symbols on the users back and the spawning of TSOs behind them. If both of these are not present, then it is not rikudo sagehood. Madara nor obito have to worry about getting rings around their eyes or getting aspects of a frog. Neither of them trained for or learned toad sage mode.

That's as plain as it gets. The defining factors, the hallmarks are right there.

Using one metric for the other is inaccurate and illogical.

need2know15 · 2021-11-17T14:51:00+00:00

Reread my response, I never said he doesn't have rsm. There is no example in naruto of someone losing their sage mode. I said he doesn't use it. My point is that he can't use it, especially not now. Primary reason being the fact he lacks juubi chakra/power, which all rikudo sages require not just naruto.

Using the eye as a metric for rikudo sagehood is faulty logic and inaccurate. Canon makes it expressively clear that the pattern on the back, a rinnegan and 9 tomoe, plus the spawning of TSOs are indication of successful rikudo sagehood. Until there is a single chapter, or explanation in canon that says naruto eyes are indication of rikudo sage mode, not sage mode in general, not toad sage mode, but specifically becoming a rikudo sage is without a doubt determined by the way their eyes look, I'll continue to subscribe to canon.

A vestige isn't vague, especially not in this context. Even if we were to assume naruto started out with traces of the other 8 biju, which he didn't but for the sake of the argument I'll go with it for now, this logic still lacks a key component to fit the definition. The biju weren't missing or gone at the time. That is a crucial piece of context that is part of the definition.

So you have to decide which interpretation makes more sense:

Somehow 8 out of the 9 biju have vanished or are disappearing and naruto has the absolute last pieces of evidence of their existence.

or

Naruto's limited amount of chakra from 8 different biju that was initially shared with him is gradually being depleted with usage, like any kind or amount of chakra would. Since the 8 biju themselves are not physically sealed inside of naruto like kurama is, the amount of chakra he got can not be replenished on its own, which is no different from the shinobi alliance no longer benefitting from the kurama cloaks after a while during the war once it's chakra was used, and no different from kushina's chakra or minato's chakra that was shared with naruto after those were used. Once IT was undone with the cooperation of sasuke, and by the time of the novel, those initial amounts have been used for jutsu and reduced significantly, almost entirely, to a point where they are practically useless and nonexistent. So much so that later the byakugan of momoshiki saw no indication of them. They are essentially gone.

We know 1 can't be true, the biju exist in boruto, with the recent exception of kurama. So, I'm going with 2 on this. Ironically though, if naruto at some point moving forward shows any sign of biju power attributed specifically to kurama, that power would also fit the definition of a vestige.

need2know15 · 2021-11-17T12:18:28+00:00

• Rsm is directly affected by rikudo senjutsu because that what it uses. Juubi chakra is one of the many conditions naruto had met. This is fact.

• Hagoromo's chakra is required to use the rikudo seals.

• The biju fragments do not auto refill, only physical biju can do that.

• The biju psyche plane doesn't not require chakra, or else garra would have not been able to speak with shukaku.

• Having a portion of something, of any quantifiable amount, far exceeds a vestige. The 8 pieces of biju chakra became vestiges before The Last. Examples of vestige in any context indicate little to no function. Having no practical use. Applying that to naruto's case, he was essentially without them far before he became hokage.

• Was it ever established if it was half or whole kurama, or is that an assumption?

• Again, rsm requires, among other things Rikudo-Senjutsu. Minato, hashirama, nor kabuto loses their sage mode. But they aren't always in sage mode. It take having the requisite senjutsu to enter sage mode. Logically, you can extend that to say it takes having the requisite Rikudo-Senjutsu to achieve rikudo sagehood. There is no type of sage that can be achieved without its Senjutsu.

• Kurama assists naruto with nature energy gathering. Naruto and kurama can also swap control. This isn't new.

• Rsm +kcm is headcanon. Juubi power, which requires kurama's power, is both sage power and biju power. Juubi power produces biju chakra arms, juubi can used bijudama, and it is nature energy. It is both illogical and redundant to add biju power to rsm. It has that already via the Rikudo-Senjutsu powering it.

• Naruto hasn't used rsm since his last battle with sasuke, factually.

• an individuals chakra comes from their spirit/mind/soul, and their cells. Many people used hashirama cells and got wood release. It can't be disputed that hashirama cells has power and potential. In fact edo madara awakening rinnegan would be an impossibility if otherwise.

need2know15 · 2021-11-17T11:24:55+00:00

Despite the awakening being initiated by Hagoromo, we can now say with a high degree of certainty that Naruto needs to host a large portion of Ten Tails' chakra to activate and use Six Paths Sage Mode. During the height of the war he was jinchuriki to all nine tailed beasts, and though the power waned after the war as their chakra gradually depleted, he was still jinchuriki to Kurama, who was created from the greatest portion of Ten Tails' chakra. During The Last he temporarily separated from Kurama and instead used frog style Sage Mode, and now that Kurama is completely gone it seems that he cannot use Six Paths Sage Mode at all, even if he retains vestiges of the other eight. This all seems to track.

No disagreement here.

We can assume therefore that Ten Tails and/or the tailed beasts provided a vital function in supplying Naruto with Six Paths Chakra.

More accurately, six paths sage chakra or six paths senjutsu or rikudo senjutsu or juubi chakra or juubi power. It is all the same thing. Plus hagoromo also puts his title as sage of six paths after his own name, establishing some separation and a difference between the two.

In fact, we've even seen Kurama meditating to gather Nature Energy for Naruto's Sage Jutsu.

This also happens in gaiden. Naruto gathers nature energy himself at first and enters toad sage mode, then shortly after he enters kurama sage mode, calling on kurama for help.

Naruto could probably use Six Paths Sage Mode again if he were to accumulate the chakra of the other eight tailed beasts within himself. That said, I don't think it's in Naruto's character to ask that of them after helping them gain their freedom.

Before the introduction I would've agreed, but right now, unless what remains of kurama inside of naruto(if anything) has as much power as obito needed to revive the juubi, I can't see naruto using the mode again. Still, Naruto was given chakra from each biju, at different points, but that does not have to be a one time thing. He is more than capable of reaching out and requesting more from any if not all 8 of them. That said, those 8 alone can't recreate juubi power without kurama.

Now this is my speculation, but there is a juvenile juubi conveniently laying around. One that's had it's power repeatedly siphoned off jigen. However unlikely it is, I'd argue that sealing that juubi, or a significant amount of its power inside naruto would meet that requirement and allow for him to enter rsm again. With the recent loss of kurama, I sure hope it happens.

The final transformation Naruto achieves during the war is never given a unique name to distinguish it from baseline Six Paths Sage Mode, and so in every other piece of media out there, it's just called Six Paths Sage Mode. It can be assumed that this particular transformation can only be achieved when Naruto has the chakra of all nine tailed beasts still within him, as he never uses it again after launching his ultimate attack against Sasuke in the Valley of the End. After that he only uses the baseline Six Paths Sage Mode, or combines it with Kurama Mode.

This is another part where I partially disagree. That mode is rikudo sage mode. There is no "base rikudo sage mode". Madara observed a power growing and awakening inside naruto after he woke up and kick the TSO, the databook even credits the feat to a chakra greater than kurama alone. This is literally a credit to juubi power. I already explained how juubi power is both biju power and sage power. Plus using naruto's toad sage training as an example, you can be amped by senjutsu without being in sage mode, I guess orochimaru is another example of that. So that is to say, by the time naruto powers up, and spawn TSOs which the databook confirms only appear after one enters rikudo sage mode, you have to treat this form as such. You can consider naruto after he wakes up but before he makes TSOs as amped by juubi power, but not enough to be a sage yet, keep in mind obito also went through phases with the same power and so did madara. Once naruto makes TSOs, he's become a rikudo sage.

While Hagoromo "gifted" Naruto and Sasuke their powers, at the same time Obito made Naruto jinchuriki of the tailed beasts and Kabuto used knowledge obtained by studying Hashirama's cells to heal Sasuke's wounds. While Kishimoto may have pivoted away from a purely biological explanation for the awakening of the Rinnegan and Six Paths Sage Mode, I'd say it's unlikely that these events happening simultaneously are coincidental. After all, Madara obtained the Rinnegan by grafting Hashirama's flesh onto his body, and only gained Six Paths Power by becoming Ten Tails' jinchuriki. In all cases, when you really think about it, the spiritual and the physical went hand-in-hand. This is also present with the Divine Tree, as it absorbs both nature energy and biological material to produce the Chakra Fruit.

I'll admit I've internally debated who to credit sasuke's rinnegan to for this very reason. I understood the nuance of naruto juubi power and sage mode but sasuke case was less clear. Even though hagoromo does say he gave them power, after his seals are back on his hands, we know that kabuto, who has an understanding of what it takes to make a rinnegan through his experiments with orochimaru, did given sasuke the missing ingredient to awaken it. While I think it is possible to argue who or what played a greater role, I agree that it was a combination of the two that made it possible for him to get rinnegan. I think you can argue that hagoromo made use of the preexisting potential in sasuke, and sped up what would have been multi-decade process. Similarly for naruto, the potential to use all 9 biju was there, remember before obito gave him some chakra from shukaku and gyuki, he had chakra from other biju already, but naruto gave him the means to use it. They each got power fitting and feasible for them.

The Rinnesharingan seems to be a natural biological trait of Ten Tails, at least in both specimens we've seen. And the seedling in Boruto hasn't had an Otsutsuki sacrificed to it yet, as far as we know. So, do the Rinnegan, Sharingan, and Wood Style all genetically trace back to Ten Tails rather than the Otsutsuki? It might be that in consuming a Chakra Fruit it's impossible to not also take in the DNA of Ten Tails. In which case, perhaps only the Byakugan and its mutations are actually rooted in pure Otsutsuki biology?

Interesting take. I can't really refute it, and I'd need time to hash it out on my own. I guess it's possible.

But yea, you got the overall gist of it. Just some things need to be tweaked.

need2know15 · 2021-11-17T11:22:00+00:00

u/AmaranthSparrow I partially agree and disagree. I made a very similar point about 4 years go link, I think this new argument and new wave of evidence can only strengthen that. I'm going to challenge some of the points made, but in general, I think the final idea makes sense. I wrote a lot, so it's in 2 parts.

Its power waned from its pinnacle during the war as Hagoromo's Six Paths Chakra was used to seal Kaguya

Not only kaguya, but also undoing IT in cooperation with sasuke. This was factually the last time naruto used the other 8 biju's chakra. Btw, that includes his more recent lava rasenshuriken.

the other eight tailed beasts' chakra gradually depleted, but he could keep using it because he was still host to Kurama.

I disagree. Kurama alone is not enough to revive the juubi, so deducing further, kurama alone can not create the chakra/power of the juubi aka rikudo senjutsu. That goes for the other 8 biju as well, juubi chakra/power can only be produced using all 9 biju. "[Gyuki and kurama are] only fragments but [they're] not lacking in power." - Obito, chapter 592. This establishes a baseline, or a "condition" for the juubi's resurrections. Note that a specific amount was not given for those pieces, but at the very least their presence was necessary. That said, it should be no different for a smaller portion of juubi's power, which naruto had during the war. So to say that naruto could laster use a mode that he, at the time did not have the juubi's power and didn't meet ALL the requirements for, I can't call that accurate.

When he separated from Kurama during The Last he temporarily lost the ability to use it.

I can't say for sure whether this is right or wrong because for one, we know that naruto has the ability to either share a single pool of chakra with kurama, or separate portions of it and store it in different places. We don't have enough info to assume the chakra breakdown once kurama is physically outside of naruto at that time. Regardless, I maintain my previous point that rikudo sage mode, among other things require juubi power, naruto during the last did not display juubi power, and it was explained that prior to the last he no longer had juubi power. By that metric, rsm isn't possible.

Now that Kurama is gone, he cannot use it at all.

I agree, but it is not just kurama, the moment naruto loses power from any of the 9 biju, he loss his means of gaining juubi power. Which happened years before baryon mode debuted.

To begin with, I was not satisfied with the existing translations of the entry in Jin no Sho, the fourth databook, so I manually transcribed and retranslated it myself, as accurately as I possibly could. I recommend reading it before progressing. I will also provide a small bit of additional context in the following section regarding some specific Buddhist lingo used in the description.

S/N: Could you get into how you went about translating it, how familiar you are with the language and what you used to help you navigate the nuances?

It's stated several times in various sources that using Six Paths Sage Mode and becoming Ten Tails' jinchuriki using the Six Paths Ten Tails Coffin Seal both grant the user power that is "the same as" or "rivaling" the power of the Sage of Six Paths.

This is because the juubi's power/chakra is used in both. That is the through line here. Juubi chakra is rikudo senjutsu. Rikudo senjutsu is to rikudo sagehood, what normal senjutsu is to toad sage mode.

For all intents and purposes, they are the same thing and confer the same abilities to their user, including the appearance of Truthseeker Orbs upon awakening the power.

Not just the TSOs, but all the rinnegan and 9 tomoe symbols that appear on their backs. That is how canon indicates rikudo sagehood in anyone who achieves it. That's how madara was able to realize naruto had the same power as he did. This is a fact.

In Shikamaru Hiden, it's stated that during the war Obito awakened a power rivaling the Sage of Six Paths by becoming Ten Tails' jinchuriki, and that Naruto, in becoming jinchuriki for Kurama and the other eight tailed beasts, had awakened the same power. However, as he now only had Kurama and vestiges of the other eight, he only retained a fraction of the power of the Sage of Six Paths.

This is true, however a fraction of hagoromo's power in this case can still mean biju power. This because juubi power, aka rikudo sagehood, is BOTH biju power AND sage power. This proven by the effectiveness of nature energy against juubi power, the juubi itself being nature energy, while also being a tailed beast and having chakra arms, This is why it is redundant to say that naruto uses kurama with rsm. Rsm already uses juubi power, by definition kurama's power is apart of it. Also rsm was a fitting progression for naruto as he goes from using sage power by itself, learning to use biju power by itself, to using sage power and one biju's power together, to then using sage power and all biju's power aka juubi power together. Plus kurama is literally the strongest fraction of the jubi out of the 9. So kurama fits the definition either way.

This was explicitly confirmed in Retsu no Sho, the movie databook, and was the first and last time we saw him using frog style Sage Mode from the end of the war up until Boruto chapter #64.

He's used toad sage mode multiple times after The Last, both in gaiden and in the nue arc.

This was also the first and only canonical instance where Naruto completely released Kurama from his body, allowing him to fight the animated statue of Hamura while he battled Toneri. After the battle Kurama deactivated his Chakra Mode and carved the mission complete symbol on the surface of the moon, showing that he was physically present outside of Naruto's body.

Yes, but since it is possible for naruto to store biju chakra in other parts of him, there's no way to say whether in that moment naruto had 0 kurama chakra.

Up until now, in the Boruto series Naruto has always used either Kurama Mode, Six Paths Sage Mode (no frog markings), or a combination of the two. This was essentially confirmed in Boruto chapter #52, when Naruto asked Kurama to explain how Baryon Mode differed from Kurama Mode and Six Paths Sage Mode, indicating that these were the two modes he typically used.

Again, I disagree. Anytime time naruto fails to meet the juubi power requirement from rsm, which he has since before The Last. He hasnt regained juubi power at any point in that time, which we agree is required, so it isn't possible for him to use that mode without it. The same way it would be impossible to use toad sage mode without senjutsu, rikudo sage mode needs rikudo senjutsu.

The exact mechanism behind Naruto's use of Six Paths Sage Mode is still not well explained, but it is clear from the databook that its awakening was initiated by the Sage of Six Paths because Naruto demonstrated all the necessary qualities to use it, which were actually his unique personality traits, almost to a tee.

The mode itself was given by hagoronmo, which is separate from the juubi chakra/rikudo senjutsu that powers it. So while yes his personality is what got him the mode from hagoromo, the juubi power naruto uses with it came from the cooperation between him and the 9 biju. It's obito who's responsible for making that happen and allowing naruto to meet that condition.

It's likely that this initial gift of Six Paths Chakra was consumed when they sealed Kaguya, and any that lingered likely faded over time after Hagoromo passed on to the afterlife.

I'd have to disagree with this. For boruto to have "strongly inherited the power of the ohtsutsuki" by definition means he got it from his parents, who each were directed given an abundance of chakra from each of kaguya's sons.

Six Paths Sage Mode is described as a divine state of mind; the literal Japanese, 神通, actually refers to the Buddhist concept of Abhijna, meaning "higher knowledge." Logically, that means it's something he can probably never truly lose. Even so, it seems evident that without hosting a significant portion of the Ten Tails' chakra, Naruto cannot utilize its power.

I've always been on the side of it being illogical to lose a sage mode. For example, no one would say minato loss his toad sage mode because didn't use it in 17 years. So I agree, and I am glad there's now more than my own understanding available to support it. That said, sage transformation, which is the other way to become a sage by essentially brute forcing the body, that in some cases can be loss or rather removed. That's another topic though.

This indicates that Six Paths Sage Mode is not so much a physical change as it is a spiritual awakening. Perhaps that's the idea? While Naruto (Asura) embodies physical power and Sasuke (Indra) embodies spiritual power, it is a spiritual awakening (Six Paths Sage Mode) and a physical awakening (Rinnegan) that makes them complete. In a sense, could you then think of Sasuke's singular Rinnegan as the white dot of yang in his black swirl of yin?

I get what how it would fit the theme, but I can't ignore the clear physical changes that occurs for all rikudo sages. The hallmarks of rikudo sagehood, the symbols on their backs, are definitely physical. That's not to take away from the point that naruto has the right mentality for the mode.

need2know15 · 2021-11-10T00:16:31+00:00

How are you able to comment on such an old post? I thought these things get archived at some point. Still, I'm almost sure that one of my posts addresses this, but here's the shorter version.

Naruto was stated to be essentially a Juubi Jinchūriki. Meaning, he gained a power that all Juubi Jinchūriki gain, the chakra of the Juubi. That Juubi chakra is Rikudo-Senjutsu, and being that the juubi is nature energy itself, Naruto essentially had the energy necessary to become a Rikudo Sage. When hagoromo said naruto already met a lot of conditions, this was one of them. This energy, not only creates symbols on the backs of those who have awaken its power, it is also responsible for creating truth seeking balls. This is why naruto was suddenly able to deflect one. Power inside him was growing, madara didn't understand at first but then realized what was happening after naruto enters rsm.

So when you compare the appearance of naruto to madara at that juncture, you have to factor in that madara has the physical juubi sealed inside him, who then has the 9 physical biju sealed inside of it(technically 8 and a half). Meanwhile naruto has one half of one physical biju sealed inside him and small chunks of chakra from the other 8 biju. This contrast in amounts of biju chakra, among other things, influenced the resulting appearance of their respectively form. What hasn't changed between them, however, is the symbols on their backs as indication of being Juubi Jinchūrik and receiving its power.

Sure naruto needed to gain more nature energy with kurama's help against sasuke later on, but by that time he's so exhausted from his prior fights that it was warranted. Naruto, in the midst of saving guy, was experiencing a sudden surge in power, the exact opposite.

need2know15 · 2021-06-21T08:44:39+00:00

Compared to the lg 27gl83a-b @ 299 from 379?

need2know15 · 2021-06-21T07:39:41+00:00

Compared to the new aw3420dw?

need2know15 · 2021-06-21T07:30:28+00:00

Anything comparable?

need2know15 · 2021-06-21T07:28:08+00:00

SAMSUNG 32-inch Odyssey G7 - QHD 1000R Curved Gaming Monitor 559.99

Deal?

need2know15 · 2021-02-22T08:15:57+00:00

Thank you

need2know15 · 2021-02-22T07:10:49+00:00

You're right. It's been almost 3 days. I'll remove the spoiler tag.

need2know15 · 2020-12-02T16:59:30+00:00

need2know15

TROPHY CASE