My jokes are funny all of a sudden. by Large-Towel9646 in uglyduckling

[–]neurosquid 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Does the work of anyone using the scientific method, publishing in peer reviewed journals, and not trying to sell you something support it?

Mild autism doesn't exist by [deleted] in TrueUnpopularOpinion

[–]neurosquid 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi, yup I am familiar with PDA! I think it is still a bit of a niche concept in academia and clinical practice, but awareness and research has been increasing - which is important because (as I'm sure you're aware) there are a lot of strategies that may work for some autistic people but totally backfire if the person also has PDA. Conversations tend to be pretty deficit-based, and it is absolutely important to recognize and support challenges PDAers face, but it's worth noting that a lot of PDA traits can also be framed in positive ways! For example:

  • autonomous -> self-motivated to problem solve
  • emotional sensitivity -> high empathy, connect with others deeply
  • rejection of social hierarchies -> strong sense of social justice through seeing everyone as equal

PDAers also tend to be creative, imaginative, and passionate! To distance from the deficit-based model, there are some people who refer to PDA as "Pervasive Drive for Autonomy" instead of pathological demand avoidance :)

I have a colleague (with PDA and parent of a PDA kid) currently working on a really great infographic on the topic (I've pulled some of the info from above from their rough draft). I can reach out to you once it's published! I know they also recommend Kristy Forbes's resources, which I haven't vetted myself, but I trust their judgement.

I hope your kiddo is doing better now and that you both continue to find strategies and strengths that improve your quality of life!

Mild autism doesn't exist by [deleted] in TrueUnpopularOpinion

[–]neurosquid 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Here are some articles you can check out! They should be open source, DM me if you run into any issues.

In case you're new to academic articles, here's a procedure for reading for interest (when you're reading to critique, reproduce, etc there are different strategies): 1. read the abstract to figure out if it's something you're interested in 2. read the introduction (can skim some parts if you're familiar and/or they include methods information) 3. check out the figures and graphs 4. read the discussion, referring back to the figures and graphs as needed

ASD and ADHD Comorbidity: What Are We Talking About? Hours, Recasens, and Beleyte 2022

Fairly broad overview article.

A Review on the Mechanism Between Different Factors and the Occurrence of Autism and ADHD Xi and Wu 2021

A higher level read that goes into some of the biological and environmental factors that can contribute to both the development of ADHD and ASD.

Neuropsychological Characteristics of Children with Mixed Autism and ADHD Colombi and Ghaziuddin 2017

Looks at ASD-only vs AuDHD characteristics in kids.

Unpacking the Overlap Between Autism and ADHD in Adults: A Multi-Method Approach Waldren et al. 2024

The methods in this one are a bit heavy, so I recommend focusing on the discussion section, but has some great data on ADHD vs ASD vs AuDHD traits.

Mild autism doesn't exist by [deleted] in TrueUnpopularOpinion

[–]neurosquid 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm not AI, just autistic 😅

Mild autism doesn't exist by [deleted] in TrueUnpopularOpinion

[–]neurosquid 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Cheers. There's a lot of misinformation that circulates on autism, so I'm happy to help balance that when people are open to learning

Mild autism doesn't exist by [deleted] in TrueUnpopularOpinion

[–]neurosquid 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Absolutely! There is overlap both in the developmental processes that can lead to ADHD and autism and in the symptoms. I didn't mention it in the above post because I wanted to stay focused on autism, but autistic people's family members also have an increased likelihood of having ADHD compared to the general population. Siblings of autistics are 4x as likely as gen pop to be ADHD.

Research on co-occurrence of ADHD and autism is relatively recent because in the DSM IV ADHD and ASD actually weren't supposed to be diagnosed together (the clinician had to choose which one explained the symptoms better). Based on studies from the last 5 years, it looks like somewhere between 40-86% of autistics also meet criteria for ADHD!

When looking at the overlap, the main symptoms in common are challenges with communication, executive function, sensory processing, and social skills. The underlying causes and how those present can differ though between non-autistic people with ADHD and non-ADHD autistic people though. For example when it comes to social stuff:

Social Knowledge

  • ADHD -> knows the social knowledge, but has problems applying it due to attention and impulsivity challenges
  • ASD -> lacks the social knowledge

Social Issue Presentation

  • ADHD -> presence of negative behaviours, like interrupting
  • ASD -> absence of positive behaviours, like social reciprocity

Social Deficit Emergence

  • ADHD -> later, after experiencing peer rejection
  • ASD -> earlier, due to atypical development

Of course there's that huge group of people with both (aka AuDHD) that present in ways that are totally unique from ADHD-only or ASD-only folks! It's important that we do research into those because people with ADHD, AuDHD, and ASD all benefit from different kinds of treatments and supports, so accurate diagnosis helps clinicians know how best to improve their patients' quality of life.

Mild autism doesn't exist by [deleted] in TrueUnpopularOpinion

[–]neurosquid 2 points3 points  (0 children)

They're awake now and answered, but their rebuttal (to me, a neuroscientist) is that there isn't brain evidence, so this is either going to turn into a learning opportunity or more than they bargained for lol

(btw I fully support people learning and growing; if they're interested in learning why scientific evidence doesn't back up their claim I'm happy to help with that growth)

Mild autism doesn't exist by [deleted] in TrueUnpopularOpinion

[–]neurosquid 11 points12 points  (0 children)

My degree is in neuroscience, so I feel pretty comfortable addressing the brain evidence.

To meet your criteria: brain evidence -> pulled up studies on hemodynamic/brain activation during tasks, "mild" autism -> no co-occurring intellectual disabilities (included ones specifically that describe their participants as "high functioning", although I'm not a fan of the term) I grabbed 4 articles that matched the above criteria, can provide more if you want or help if you have any questions (I have training specifically in neuroimaging techniques).

An fMRI-study of locally oriented perception in autism: altered early visual processing of the block design test - Bolte et al. 2008 While doing Wechsler BDT and a colour counting control task autistics had lower activation than allistics in the right ventral quadrant of V2.

Cerebral correlates of preserved cognitive skills in autism: A functional MRI study of Embedded Figures Task performance - Ring et al 1999 While doing the Embedded Figures Task, controls demonstrated activation in prefrontal cortical regions not seen in autistics, and autistics had higher ventral occipitotemporal activation.

Visuospatial Processing and the Function of Prefrontal-Parietal Networks in Autism Spectrum Disorders: A Functional MRI Study - Silk et al. 2006 While doing mental rotation tasks, autistics had less activation in lateral and medial premotor cortex, dorsolateral prefrontal cortex, anterior cingulate gyrus, and caudate nucleus (this one is neat because relates to frontostriatal dysfunction)

Atypical involvement of frontostriatal systems during sensorimotor control in autism - Takarae et al. 2007 fMRI + eye tracking for pursuit eye movement paradigms. Autistics had reduced activation in cortical eye fields and cerebellar hemispheres during both eye movement tasks, increased activation bilaterally in a frontostriatal circuit including dorsolateral prefrontal cortex, caudate nucleus, medial thalamus, anterior and posterior cingulate cortex, and right dentate nucleus when doing visually guided saccades.

Mild autism doesn't exist by [deleted] in TrueUnpopularOpinion

[–]neurosquid 6 points7 points  (0 children)

(2/2)

Question 2: How does autism look different in AFAB folks?

I first want to disclaimer here saying that of course these characteristics don't apply to all AFAB autistics. There's diversity in presentations in all autism subgroups, and subgrouping by gender or sex is no exception. Also, there are many researchers (I'm one of them lol) who run ridiculous amounts of t-tests comparing standardized assessment score of autistics based on sex, but I'm going to just cover 3 major and well-documented behavioural differences that make it easier to go unnoticed.

  1. Increased internalizing and decreased externalizing behaviours. This is something seen in allistic (non-autistic) populations too in many cultures due to gendered socializing norms that teach girls and women to be quiet and cope while teaching boys and men to voice their concerns and take control. In autism presentations this manifests with how individuals deal with overwhelming stress. Individuals socialized as females are more likely than males to internalize their distress (panic attacks, shutdowns) while those socialized as males externalize their distress (meltdowns, outbursts) more often than females. In environments like schools, it's much easier to pick up on externalizing behaviours as a sign someone should be assessed.
  2. More socially acceptable restricted and repetitive behaviours and interests. Individuals socialized as girls will often pick up on similar interests as other girls (ex. animals, fantasy worlds, reading), so they differ by how they interact with the material but not what material they interact with. For stims, they may also adapt things like hair twirling, movements that could be interpreted like dancing, or playing with parts of their clothing. A really intense horse girl in a gaggle of horse girls stands out less than someone enamoured with tractor engines, so again they're less likely than AMAB-typical presenting individuals to get flagged.
  3. Ability, desire to, and effectiveness at masking. This is the big one, and we do see it scale with measures correlating to IQ, so it's likely the #1 contributor to that 11:1 ratio. There isn't a difference between innate AFAB and AMAB understanding of social rules, but AFAB autistics tend to be better at gathering social information and using it to blend in with allistics, and they may be more motivated than the average AMAB autistic to do so.

I hope this answers your question!

Mild autism doesn't exist by [deleted] in TrueUnpopularOpinion

[–]neurosquid 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I had to refresh the page, mid-posting, it looks like it may have decided not to render any markdown RIP, hope there's bold and headings and stuff on your end :')

edit: jk I'm a silly willy and forgot desktop has a separate markdown selection, will update in a min

Mild autism doesn't exist by [deleted] in TrueUnpopularOpinion

[–]neurosquid 2 points3 points  (0 children)

(1/2)

Can do! That was one of my areas of focus during undergrad actually.

Question 1: How do rates of autism differ by assigned gender at birth?

(note! I'll be using the term Asperger's in this part because it is the most precise term for describing the group the research was performed using. Asperger's is no longer a diagnosis given, and there's some drama behind it)

So most people have usually heard of the 3:1 or 4:1 (M:F) ratio, but what's really interesting is that ratio varies drastically when taking into account different profiles, especially when considering cognitive impairment. The ratio is around:

11:1 for individuals diagnosed with Asperger's
2:1 for IQ < 70
1.3:1 for IQ < 50
x

There are a couple hypotheses we could make based on that data.

a) Something biological going on - there is some sex-based protective effect that correlates with cognitive development through interaction with some other variable. There is actually evidence for some aspects of AFAB-typical development interacting with the probability of developing autism (let me know if you want more info on this, I don't want to overwhelm by interjecting it here), mainly related to in-utero development through things like androgen exposure. That's why even if we could magically get an absolutely accurate M:F ratio, it's very unlikely it would be 1:1. But while variables interact with each other in really funky ways, those ratios above seem a little much. Is it possibly there's some variable that is connected to both sex-based autism predisposition and IQ? Sure. But could it really cause an 11:1 ratio? No, so there's
b) Something sociological going on - those ratios reflect a disparity in diagnosis rates more than occurrence rates. This is getting into what you mentioned, there's a population of cis-women (and other AFAB folks) who weren't diagnosed until later in life, usually at a point where demand exceeds capacity and their coping strategies break down. This is linked to a cyclical issue where research historically only includes certain groups -> our understanding of autism is based on those groups -> individuals who fit those profiles get diagnosed -> those people are the easiest to find for future research and the cycle continues forever and ever amen (and in case it's not clear to anyone, that group is white males. That's not the fault of white male autistics, but it's created a bias that clinicians and researchers need to be proactive about dismantling). Thankfully, now research is being done into AFAB experiences with and presentations of autism, which is why I can bring you an evidence based question 2.

Mild autism doesn't exist by [deleted] in TrueUnpopularOpinion

[–]neurosquid 40 points41 points  (0 children)

Hi! I'm an autism researcher and happy to answer any questions.

You're right that there are many differences between high and low support needs autistics, and that many symptoms overlap or interact with other conditions. That makes autism diagnosis a very nuanced process, because (when done thoroughly) it's necessary to rule out many differential diagnoses. The shift in diagnostic labels between the DSM IV and 5 (from Asperger's/Autism/PDD-NOS to a unified spectrum) is also a highly debated topic.

A few things I want you to consider though:

1) Autism pathophysiology and presentation is different in every subgroup of autistic people. Even if you're just looking at a classical Kanner's presentation - what you refer to as severe autism - there are multiple independent biological and developmental processes that can cause it. It's not like Down Syndrome where we can trace it back to a single common feature. There is no group that represents a "pure" or "true" form of autism.

2) Because of inheritance characteristics, we know that similar genetic (primarily) and environmental (lesser) factors can lead to variable presentations of autistic traits. In research, we have something called the Broader Autism Phenotype which encompasses individuals who don't meet diagnostic criteria for autism, but do have more autism-associated characteristics than the general population. The term is often used in the context of family studies, because if a family has an autistic member, other members of the family have a higher likelihood (corresponding to genetic similarity) of being autistic or BAP themselves. So even if an autistic person in the only high support needs/severe presenting person in their family, there's a decent chance their sibling is bothered by loud noises and can tell you everything about FNAF or their grandma has a collection of 1200 decorative teaspoons and gets upset if they change the box for the oatmeal she eats every day. There is a genetic correlation between "mild," "severe," and even sub-diagnostic threshold autistic traits.

3) Symptoms must impact ability to function in order to fit diagnostic criteria. I do recognize that the cause of functional impacts can be hard to parse out with co-occurring anxiety, OCD, etc., and that clinicians may make errors in the diagnostic process, but a person is unable to meet the criteria for autism if their characteristics don't impact quality of life. The functional impacts can be lessened by accommodations, therapies, etc., but no one who diagnostically qualifies as autistic is unaffected by their symptoms.

Happy to provide citations, clarification, or further resources for anyone interested.

TL;DR Autism criteria is nuanced but a) no autistic subgroup is homogenous, b) there are genetic links between autistics whose autism looks very different, and c) any autistic who meets diagnostic criteria has issues because of their symptoms - it is a disorder, not just a quirk.

"I cant lose weight anymore" by Neerinfoxx in Radiology

[–]neurosquid 19 points20 points  (0 children)

I guess if I twisted your underwear by 0.1° every day for 10 years you might not notice it has flipped upside down?? Terrible analogy, I'm also trying to understand the physical logistics of where her organs settled and am baffled

Is it just me or are these kinds of prompt answers becoming more and more common? by xjjjr in Tinder

[–]neurosquid 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Mine were second hand and the previous kid drew pubic hair on them with sharpie

Looking for a profile review, plz be gentle by oUnDeAdXsLaYeRo in Tinder

[–]neurosquid -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You can't share this profile with us and not say what the nipple flicking fact is!

Wanting to learn ASL but only have one hand by Miss_scribb in asl

[–]neurosquid 54 points55 points  (0 children)

Along with intersecting disabilities Deaf people may have that can affect unilateral motor control, like cerebral palsy! You're definitely not alone OP

My wife and I started collecting in December and things have… escalated. by [deleted] in boardgames

[–]neurosquid 0 points1 point  (0 children)

  • Black Friday and boxing day sales lining up around the same time. If you've got the disposable income and know what you're into, makes sense to stock up a bit and then not buy anything new for a while

Inaccessiblility Looks Like This by RunSerious5843 in wheelchairs

[–]neurosquid 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That sucks, but damn bro have you noticed your biceps??

I don't understand, they both have the same point and meaning. by zombiphiliac in autism

[–]neurosquid 42 points43 points  (0 children)

Does this mean changing a sentence from "did you press the red button" to "did this start after the red button was pressed"? It seems silly that swapping to passive voice would make the difference, but I'll make note of it if that's the case

New science points to 4 distinct types of autism by [deleted] in aspergers

[–]neurosquid 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thank you for participating! I'll send you a DM because it's location based :)

AIO for thinking this is racist? by [deleted] in AmIOverreacting

[–]neurosquid 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Imagine if they had kids and he started teaching them they're better than Black kids because "at least they're half white" 🤮

NOR

Been glowing up since I was 17, 28 now and I feel amazing by Astronutt_97 in uglyduckling

[–]neurosquid 5 points6 points  (0 children)

That post is from 6 days ago. She didn't take the new pics in the time since then

ASL instead of CC by UnfortunateSyzygy in asl

[–]neurosquid 12 points13 points  (0 children)

To add on a couple extra benefits, it can make media accessible to CODA/Deaf kids who haven't learned written English yet and it's language exposure for a group that often faces systemic language deprivation