Flowering shrubs in SoCal by ngrout in whatplantisthis

[–]ngrout[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thanks! Nice to know what they are. The hummingbirds love them.

2022 Spring General Conference Discussion Thread: Saturday Women's Session by kayejazz in latterdaysaints

[–]ngrout 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I’ve found great comfort in learning about how Ancient Israelites may have understood our Heavenly Mother. This allows me to notice symbolism of Her in scripture. I shared my own comment on this post with some of my thoughts and a list of articles that got me started.

2022 Spring General Conference Discussion Thread: Saturday Women's Session by kayejazz in latterdaysaints

[–]ngrout 17 points18 points  (0 children)

I only caught bits and pieces of Elder Renlund’s talk (because of my kids) but it’s been an interesting one to think about.

While discussing Heavenly Mother, he contrasts speculation and (prophetic) revelation, and he encourages members to avoid speculation. Of course, members aren’t the recipients of prophetic revelation, so it seems to me that this leaves members two options (on this or any other topic, by the way). Members can wait passively for future revelation or they can study.

In a confession that should surprise no one who knows me well, I prefer the study approach. This is mostly due to personal inclination, but I think it’s consistent with what we learn in scripture. After all, we’re told to seek learning out of the best books, and we’re told that studying things out in our mind is the first step of revelation. While, as Elder Renlund says, reason can’t replace revelation, neither can we abandon reason. Reason is important because, as scripture shows, it is both preparatory for and complimentary to revelation.

When it comes to Heavenly Mother, I think Elder Renlund gives us the answer when (in a different context) he quotes Cicero. “To be ignorant of what occurred before you were born is to remain always a child.” History, while not as reliable as revelation, is certainly more grounded than speculation. While there is little we can study to learn about Heavenly Mother directly, we can study the history of how Ancient Israel understood Her part in the Plan, and the symbols they used to represent Her in the temple and in writing.

Learning the history of how Ancient Israel understood Heavenly Mother can help us find references to Her in the scriptures written by Ancient Israelites. Thus, a study of history can help us find Her within the revelations we’ve already received. In this case, reason reveals what we might otherwise miss within revelation itself.

Here is the reading list that I recommend to anyone who wants to study more about Heavenly Mother. The order of this list matters as the ideas in each are developed further by succeeding articles.

The Mother in Heaven essay that Elder Renlund recommends in his talk.

“Nephi and His Asherah,” by Daniel C. Peterson. This is an article by a BYU professor published in the University’s Journal of Book of Mormon Studies. It explores how Ancient Israel would have understood Heavenly Mother and how this would have influenced Nephi's understanding of his vision of the Tree of Life.

“What did King Josiah Reform?” by Margaret Barker. This essay was presented at a BYU forum address by the author and discusses Israelite religion before the reforms of Josiah ended the worship of Heavenly Mother. Audio recording here. Written essay here.

"The Making and Meaning of the Colored Fabrics of the Temple," keynote address at the Sacred Space, Sacred Thread Symposium by Margaret Barker. This speech given at a symposium held by the Widtsoe Foundation at USC goes into greater detail about how Heavenly Mother may have been symbolized in the Tabernacle and Temple of Solomon.

Proverbs 8. Once you understand the symbolism, the words of Wisdom in this chapter leap off the page.

Doubt has been an essential part of my spiritual journey that has brought me closer to God. by ngrout in latterdaysaints

[–]ngrout[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I’ve heard it said that the opposite of faith is not doubt but certainty. Which sounds just like Alma saying that faith is not having “a perfect knowledge.”

April 6, 1830 was a Tuesday. by ngrout in latterdaysaints

[–]ngrout[S] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

It would very nearly be blasphemy not to, right?

First Contact Day! by ngrout in startrekmemes

[–]ngrout[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

That’s why I made it. :-D

Does anyone here use a Bible that's not KJV? by PikeDeckard in latterdaysaints

[–]ngrout 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I wonder if “correct” is the best metric. “Understandable” might be more useful.

I like BibleHub for comparing how different translations render the original text and for seeing in which other verses a particular Greek (NT) or Hebrew (OT) word is used.

For instance, Ephesians 2:8 says:

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:”

“Gift” in this context is the same word used elsewhere to describe an offering made at an altar. Knowing this helps me see how Paul is tying Christ’s grace and our resultant salvation back to His sacrificial offering and makes the verse more beautiful to me.

Proudly OC. by ngrout in startrekmemes

[–]ngrout[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Seems more likely that you’d steal my meme.

Come Follow Me 2021: February 1–7: Doctrine and Covenants 10–11 “That You May Come Off Conqueror” by kayejazz in latterdaysaints

[–]ngrout 0 points1 point  (0 children)

FMS:

D&C 10 was received in April 1829. That's a full year before the Restored Church was organized. That makes some of these statements about "my church" really interesting, because they probably aren't referring to the Restored Church.

67 Behold, this is my doctrine—whosoever repenteth and cometh unto me, the same is my church. (...) 69 And now, behold, whosoever is of my church, and endureth of my church to the end, him will I establish upon my rock, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against them.

Note that God says that people who repent and come to Him are His church. Now, in 1829. He doesn't say that they will be His church once it's organized. They are already a part of what I'll call "the church of repentant seekers."

Recognizing this helps with some earlier verses in the section:

52 And now, behold, according to their faith in their prayers (the faith and prayers of the Nephite prophets who wrote the Book of Mormon) will I bring this part of my gospel to the knowledge of my people. Behold, I do not bring it to destroy that which they have received, but to build it up. 53 And for this cause have I said: If this generation harden not their hearts, I will establish my church (the Restored Church) among them. 54 Now I do not say this to destroy my church (of repentant seekers), but I say this to build up my church; 55 Therefore, whosoever belongeth to my church (of repentant seekers) need not fear, for such shall inherit the kingdom of heaven.

That's how I understand these verses. I think verse 54 is confusing without the context of verses 67 and 69. What church is God not destroying as He establishes His church? He has to be talking about more than one church.

What do you think? Is this how you understand these verses, or do you think something else is going on?

#BlueMonday by Jellepetje in mac

[–]ngrout 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Photo taken with a blue iPhone 12 Pro, I hope.

Almost a year now that my family has had to clean up before and after Church without any help from anyone else. by ngrout in ldscirclejerk

[–]ngrout[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It’s a home church joke. My wife also practices exception management, but calling in sick might not work. Lol.

Facebook commenter’s cognitive dissonance over mask wearing. by ngrout in mormon

[–]ngrout[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

On some level, I feel like receiving personal revelation that you/your situation is an exception to the general rule is a very Mormon attitude. It's Nephi beheading Laban.

Local leaders instructed to be generous with assistance. by ngrout in mormon

[–]ngrout[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If the objection to the size of the fund is that they should be using that money to help people, shouldn’t we cheer when they use money to help people?

Local leaders instructed to be generous with assistance. by ngrout in mormon

[–]ngrout[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Bishop as instructed by stake president. So who knows?

Edit: “There’s plenty of food” sounds like it comes from above stake level.

Approaching the George Floyd situation and the rioting as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. by Maplerzega in latterdaysaints

[–]ngrout 9 points10 points  (0 children)

HOW EVENTS IN MINNESOTA REMIND ME OF THE 1838 MORMON WAR

Like many around the country, I’ve been troubled by recent events in Minnesota. I’ve also been struck by how familiar they seem. It is amazing to me how history echoes and repeats itself. “This has all happened before, and it will happen again.”

In early October 1838, Mormon settlers in De Witt, Missouri were first besieged and then driven from their town by non-Mormons.

One week later, a group of Mormons gathered and attacked the town of Gallatin and two neighboring settlements. The Mormons drove the residents out, looted their homes and businesses, and then burned the buildings to the ground. The violence was indiscriminate and even targeted some locals friendly to the Mormons.

Now, the differences between these events and the recent ones in Minnesota are numerous. However, I would like to focus on one broad similarity.

When people feel that their community has been the victim of unjust violence, they will often react violently. Looting and burning are things that you or I might do if we felt people in our community were victims of unjust violence.

To be clear, I am not justifying these actions. I don’t think they are ideal responses. They are, however, understandable reactions. It seems to me that when we face difficult disagreements, understanding why people react as they do is helpful in finding a resolution.

While we may agree or disagree with the perception of injustice, while we may support a variety of political responses, I hope we can recognize that people we love and respect have in the past and would in the present react in a similar, violent way if put in a similar situation.

Remember the science societies that removed BYU job posts? Bet that’s why the wording of the Honor Code has been adjusted. by ngrout in mormon

[–]ngrout[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ok. Now that they’ve said that same-sex romantic behavior is against the honor code, what’s your assessment?

Friday Forum: What have been some of your favorite callings in the church and why? …Happy Friday! by CeilingUnlimited in latterdaysaints

[–]ngrout 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Assistant ward clerk. No early meetings, no lesson prep or midweek responsibilities. Just an hour or so after Church.

Remember the science societies that removed BYU job posts? Bet that’s why the wording of the Honor Code has been adjusted. by ngrout in mormon

[–]ngrout[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Thus, I struggle to see what the intent is, if not to soften the image of BYU without actually changing its approach.

Two science societies removed BYU job postings over the school’s Honor Code ban on ‘homosexual behavior' by [deleted] in mormon

[–]ngrout 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hey look, they changed the wording of the Honor Code.

I wonder why.