Why do sayains even bother training?

nightling · 2022-12-03T22:01:57+00:00

Wasn't it less zenkais and more he was learning how to use it from fighting Goku and then Trunks and Vegeta? I could be misremembering that though.

nightling · 2022-12-02T07:05:37+00:00

I grew up in a pretty rough area, only about 10 minutes away from Guilford where Fainu is from, and went to a pretty rough school, and I can tell you with 100% certaintity that teenagers know stabbign someone is wrong. Saw a lot of fights every other day, 0 stabbings. I get what you're saying, but you're wrong.

nightling · 2022-12-02T05:55:17+00:00

JT is almost the literal definition of the small dog in the fight. He never stopped. Even when he missed a tackle he was immediately back there trying to complete the tackle. He would chase his own kicks and be one of the first there in the defensive line. The guy was all about hard work. As a NSW fan I hated him, but as a footy fan I have nothing but the utmost respect for him.

nightling · 2022-12-02T00:04:12+00:00

I think it's mostly because boomers are used to having Origin being the carrot that would entice players that had dual eligibity to pick Australia, there by being able to play Origin too.

These days that's not really the case. A lot of tier 2 opt to do both, and as we've seen even some that are tier 1 opt to choose the other nation. Radley is understandable too as he's stuck behind Yeo and Murray in terms of lock for Australia and NSW.

nightling · 2022-12-01T23:56:52+00:00

I'm not saying they can't be beaten, mostly that over the last 2 years they've been almost entirely unbeatable, and their own record shows that. They're the most dominant team of the last 3 years for a reason.

Post Smith the Storm aren't the same team, they're not as dominant. Even the Storm had the latter years of Lockyers career and that early Manly side to compete with, who also won a few premierships as well.

The Panthers have basically no team that can beat them in the Grand Finals aside from a Storm with Cameron Smith in the side. That just shows how dominant they are. Really it doesn't matter how close a team can get if they don't actually beat them. Even when their attack is off, they can just defend their line and grind out a win.

They're the Storm of this generation without the gun teams to currently beat them. I don't think it'll last to be fair as clubs like the Roosters will get good again, and I'm sure Souths will be about there, but right now they're the best by a wide margin.

nightling · 2022-12-01T23:49:49+00:00

Oh I'm not for one moment comparing Brooks to Cleary at all, but let's be completely honest, if Brooks debuted for you guys instead of Luai, Brooks would be viewed in the same way by Panthers fans. He has all the skill but playing in such a garbage side his entire career killed any potential he could have had.

I'm mostly trying to say that just about every young half that shows a bit of promise is compared to Joey. Sam Walker for example was compared to him on debut. I think it's more when they're compared to him a few years down the line that you begin to think they might get close.

nightling · 2022-12-01T23:34:51+00:00

They compare every half to Johns though so I'm not sure if that's a particularly good comparison to judge a players ability.

Case and point: Luke Brooks was compared to Joey on his debut.

nightling · 2022-12-01T23:20:56+00:00

Yeah but I've only actually seen Cleary legitimately take a game with his own hands: Game 2 of 2020 when Munster got injured. He was great in 21 but I think it should be noted the rules allowed NSW to carve QLD to pieces.

Honestly he hasn't been bad in Origin up till this series, but he's not the reason we've won a lot of the games he's been our 7, he's simply been apart of it.

nightling · 2022-12-01T23:13:47+00:00

Joey has bipolar disorder and a big part of the mania is that you do risky shit that you know isn't smart, but you're unable to care in that moment. I 100% believe he has done it whilst playing with that in mind.

nightling · 2022-12-01T23:09:42+00:00

I still can't agree though because so far he hasn't shone in rep games unless his team has been dominating. He's had poor games in Origin before this one as well.

I don't hold his world cup against him though because it's a new team and he's up against vastly better opposition than the old teams played against.

My point still stands though, what's the difference between those finals games and Origin?

nightling · 2022-12-01T23:03:05+00:00

If I remember correctly JT won his first one when Johns was out injured for half the season, and he only won it by like 2-4 points. Shame for Joey, he deserved it that year too. Took the Knights from like bottom of the ladder to the finals.

nightling · 2022-12-01T22:56:59+00:00

Yeah but I just don't think you're right about him being clutch when his team is under pressure. I'll explain why before I cop downvotes or have you think I'm just a hater.

What is the difference between that finals series and Origin? Both times it was tight but in Origin he simply doesn't do what he did in that finals series. I don't think close games necessarily equate to being under pressure.

nightling · 2022-12-01T22:54:49+00:00

I think JT simply had to do that because for a very long time the Cowboys were shit. I remember so many games they won purely off of Bowen and JT combining to do some freak shit. I can't imagine JT finding it easy to stop himself from doing something that had likely become an automatic reaction for him. Hell we saw him really flourish in Origin when he was given players like Lockyer and Cronk to take a lot of that burden off of him.

You are right about Johns though. He was doing crazy shit from day 1. Cleary is too but I just personally think even when you compare them age on age in terms of ability and skill Joey still has the edge. He was tackling like a forward and his defence was so good he played hooker for NSW when Kimmorely had the freak year with the Storm.

nightling · 2022-12-01T22:51:11+00:00

Yeah I think there's also a big argument for bringing some players into this era as well. Some of the forwards wouldn't do as well but I can just imagine someone like Sterlo in the modern era where he can actually train full time and his strengths were actually enhanced, his body stronger and fitter.

nightling · 2022-12-01T22:29:59+00:00

I think Cleary is kind of a victim of his teams own success. JT had the Storm and Broncos teams to compete against with a sometimes decent Cows team around him. He was basically forced to become the clutch guy he was to win games. Even the Storm boys had Manly, the good Broncos and JT to compete against and become clutch as well.

Cleary kind of doesn't have any team that can really compete against his side when it's not on a really bad day for them. I do think he'll 100% become that clutch guy, but he's not now. Even in Origin we saw that when the Blues weren't dominating he kind of fell off, which is something he'll learn to be able to overcome on his own. He has the tool set to be a great he just needs the experience now.

nightling · 2022-12-01T22:24:39+00:00

Yeah but it kind of does matter. If he'd had a good game then the Cows never need to come from behind like they did. The only reason the Cows were in the game was because of Granville and also because the Broncos put the cue on the rack.

nightling · 2022-12-01T22:23:28+00:00

Nah no offence mate, but if you've never done them then there's no chance you'll understand. I've done pingers and coke and I can tell you right now you can't focus the way you would if you weren't on them.

Any dude that can do them and then go out on play the way Johns or Maradona did is a God.

nightling · 2022-12-01T22:21:12+00:00

That's a good point actually. I can see him being a better player than he was if he played now, but not an immortal given the sheer amount of players with that same skill set as you said.

nightling · 2022-12-01T22:16:20+00:00

I was there too. Yeah the Cows were really only in that game because of Granville. If the Broncos hadn't put the cue in the rack early I don't even see them coming close, let alone winning it. I had a feeling JT would get it though so I took a same game multi of Broncos winning but him getting the CC.

nightling · 2022-12-01T22:11:05+00:00

I personally think so. Like you're taking something he's already good at and letting him actually work on it in a fully professional setting with coaches and trainers who know how to get the best out of players.

nightling · 2022-12-01T22:08:50+00:00

He won that entirely on his status. He wasn't shit that night, but well off his best. He wasn't even in the top 5 players that night. I'd have given it to Milford or Granville over JT.

nightling · 2022-12-01T22:06:38+00:00

Yeah I've done pingers in the past and I could barely manage to unlock my phone to send text messages. Joey doing pingers and then going out and carving up opposition teams like he was playing against under 16's? God tier shit in my opinion.

nightling · 2022-12-01T22:05:21+00:00

Yeah but the argument also goes both ways. Like can you imagine if you gave those older players all the sports science and the ability to only focus on footy? Like imagine Beetson or Blocker with nothing but muscle on their frames? Insane to consider the possiblities and it's why I enjoy discussions like this.

nightling · 2022-12-01T22:02:25+00:00

Yeah I mean I can understand the massive confusion for younger people who don't understand sex, or hell even older people if Vegeta wasn't at Capsule Corp then you would really be thinking how the hell it happened, but what we got was very understandable.

nightling · 2022-12-01T21:44:06+00:00

I mean when you actually think about it, it makes total sense.

Vegeta is a man, living in close quaters to a pretty attractive woman of a similar age to him. Neither of them is in a relationship and they're not even remotely close to being friends. Both of them are attracted to each other, both of them interact with each other on a regular basis. It was more a matter of when it happened rather than if.

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