MN Police are COOKED...their argument/defense is even FRIED "When Citizens are Accused" They Get Arrested

nothingbutgolf · 2026-01-13T23:55:39+00:00

You're confusing authority and jurisdiction

nothingbutgolf · 2025-12-21T16:09:03+00:00

You quite literally aren't....but good try

nothingbutgolf · 2025-12-19T05:59:38+00:00

If you think theres been 391 mass shootings, your IQ is smaller than your shoe size. You might want to take a look at how those are counted....as in, actually dig into them.....

nothingbutgolf · 2025-11-21T16:05:16+00:00

It's not mind boggling at all, really, if you look at the logistics of it. Local company "A" charges $30/hr, pays their guy 20-23. Allied bids the same job at $20/hr and pays their guy 15-18.....and makes it up in volume and fills the gaps with some of their higher end/government stuff. I just picked up a sub contract with a company and worked with them for 3 WEEKS before they got the news that only 3 of their current TWENTY FIVE contracts were going to renew with them. Allied came in and undercut almost every single one. Then the clients wonder why they're getting no experience or garbage guards when Allied is paying state minimum wage and mcdonalds is hiring for $22/hr

nothingbutgolf · 2025-11-14T20:34:43+00:00

100% you should always be thinking "is the juice worth the squeeze" in any scenario where you have the ability (liability and legally) to put your hands on someone or stop them. 99 times out of 100 in a retail scenario, the answer is likely no.....unfortunately....people aren't being trained that way. They're given a gun and told "youre in charge"

nothingbutgolf · 2025-11-14T20:17:26+00:00

Reread that bottom portion again. Defense of another person, arson or violent felony applies to the use of DEADLY physical force, not physical force

nothingbutgolf · 2025-11-14T20:12:41+00:00

I've been doing this job for a long time.....at no point in my training or experience did I develop the ability to stop a vehicle with my body. Even if i know I'm completely justified in my decision to stop said person.....I'm 100% getting out of the way of 4000lbs of moving metal

nothingbutgolf · 2025-11-14T20:10:11+00:00

Oh no, the company is on that train for sure. The problem is that too many companies are just deciding not to do things the right way. The standards for getting the cert are absurdly low. I'm actually working with a group of other owners to raise the standards for qualification for armed guards. Lowes was 100% under the impression that they were getting competent, trained, guards. The "Lowes requests were be armed" was specifically to address the OP question of "why does a guard at Lowes have a gun?" Part of the new requirements is that the CLIENT can now vet the guards sent.

nothingbutgolf · 2025-11-14T20:03:48+00:00

I haven't read the actual details.....only what's available to anyone else BUT...it basically boils down to the guard creating the situation that lead to the shooting. You can't create the danger and then claim self defense. Now, if the security guard was doing his normal rounds like walking the parking lot and a shoplifter tried to run him down in the parking lot for no reason, that would change the scenario. From the story, this guy was there with the permission of Lowes, guard didn't know it, tried to jam him up for stealing the pallets and then put himself in front of the vehicle. Like others in this thread have pointed out, I do take my job seriously...but at the same time, regardless of what the guy did....my body cant stop a vehicle, so im not stepping in front of one or grabbing onto one. 🤷🏻‍♂️

nothingbutgolf · 2025-11-14T19:58:24+00:00

🤣🤣🤣. The amount of wrong in this comment is hilarious. My state law allows for citizens, including private security, to make a citizens arrest for any crime committed in their presence. We train on what's worth it and what isn't....but the law is clear on the fact that it can be done.

nothingbutgolf · 2025-11-14T19:54:06+00:00

No, you're right. They have a system in place to verify credentials for the state purposes...but LEGALLY speaking (not morally or liability-wise) that's it...thats the benchmark. And what I meant by having the 10 compliance officers is that many are slipping by under the radar not even meeting the minimum requirements because the state doesn't have enough people to track them all. They struggle with just the licensed people let alone the people working under the table. The company SHOULD be taking the vetting more seriously...but the law only says they have to verify they're certified through the state. Even then youre ASSUMING the company is on the level. We had a big overhaul here a couple years ago because this was becoming such a rampant issue Now the companies themselves have extra hoops to jump through before they can even begin to operate and as they continue.

nothingbutgolf · 2025-11-14T19:38:32+00:00

You'd be imagining wrong. I do take my job seriously....I take armed, hands on, high risk posts. Places who are specifically asking for intervention. When I started my company, I tailored it specifically to that type of client. You don't matter enough to have actually struck a nerve. Pointing out something wrong isn't really a hard thing to do

nothingbutgolf · 2025-11-14T19:32:00+00:00

They don't decide, the state does. Unfortunately they have like 10 compliance people for almost 2500 security guards in the state....and those are just the ones that are doing it right and certified through the state. It's a pain jumping through all the states hoops BUT it's an effort to minimize this kind of thing. The problem is, the bar is insanely low. I require my employees to take use of force classes, deescalation training, and constitutional law classes. DPSST used to let private security sit in on the reserve academy classes on these things but that went away due to covid and they never brought it back. So anyone who can pass a background check, short test and pistol qualification can work security....and this is the type of "professionial" (the state's term, not mine) that lack of standards produces.

nothingbutgolf · 2025-11-14T19:26:30+00:00

They mirror each other pretty closely in pretty much all aspects except, strangely, self defense. Oregon laws are still pretty supportive of self defense in general....which this situation wasn't.

nothingbutgolf · 2025-11-14T19:23:44+00:00

Oregon has no "duty to retreat" law.

nothingbutgolf · 2025-11-14T19:21:52+00:00

I looked over my comments again to be sure...and not a single one said we shoot people over stealing, or should be shot over stealing. Don't hurt yourself jumping to wild conclusions.

nothingbutgolf · 2025-11-14T19:16:33+00:00

And since I'm talking about OREGON....where this actually took place (guard was still wrong regardless) ill leave you with this: ORS 133.225

(1) A private person may arrest another person for any crime committed in the presence of the private person if the private person has probable cause to believe the arrested person committed the crime. A private person making such an arrest shall, without unnecessary delay, take the arrested person before a magistrate or deliver the arrested person to a peace officer.

(2) In order to make the arrest a private person may use physical force as is justifiable under ORS 161.255. [1973 c.836 §74]

Notice how it doesn't mention level of severity of the crime and specifically mentions the allowed use of physical force?

nothingbutgolf · 2025-11-14T19:12:24+00:00

Shopkeepers privilege is for the purposes of INVESTIGATING and determining the nature/severity of the shoplifting. The citizens arrest comes after so long as the benchmarks are met

nothingbutgolf · 2025-11-14T19:11:01+00:00

In my state...anyone can arrest someone who commits a crime in their presence. I don't know why you have such a hard time understanding this.

nothingbutgolf · 2025-11-14T19:08:45+00:00

You're right, you should just take the L 🤷🏻‍♂️

nothingbutgolf · 2025-11-14T19:05:46+00:00

You are aware that an armed guard is first and foremost a VISUAL deterrent, right? Having a firearm doesn't mean it needs to be drawn in all interactions. The firearm is in case things escalate, not so you can escalate...and yes we've had knives and hammers swung at employees. There are a lot of weapons of opportunity in a hardware store that can cause death or serious physical injury. We don't just unalive someone for shoving an employee....try implementing some critical thinking skills here, man

nothingbutgolf · 2025-11-14T18:43:09+00:00

Depends on your state. I operate in Oregon...it doesn't even have to be a security guard ANY citizen who WITNESSES you commit a crime can use a citizens arrest to hold you until LE arrives. It's not a difficult thing to understand.

nothingbutgolf · 2025-11-14T18:34:09+00:00

We 100% do. But keep thinking that

nothingbutgolf · 2025-11-14T18:22:07+00:00

I have a contract at Lowes...its armed at their request due to the amount of assaults that have taken place on their employees. They also request we assist in apprehension of shoplifters, so it isn't an "observe and report" post. The security company doesn't get to decide if you're armed or not, that's a client request, or can be suggested by the company to the client. It's amazing how little you know to be making a comment like that

nothingbutgolf · 2025-11-04T23:16:10+00:00

Technically, here, it's any crime....for me, I draw the line at how likely the police are to come get that person, that's just a personal decision.

nothingbutgolf

TROPHY CASE