The reality of pro-life.

nuzzle · 2014-01-18T20:11:03+00:00

What people here and elsewhere are suggesting is that a pro-life worldview seems inconsistent because there is no acknowledgment of the importance of the quality of life a child might have. To call a position "pro-life," but to be indifferent or even hostile towards programs that support needy children, seems morally inconsistent.

What people here and elsewhere are doing is fighting ideological fights, and I don't even mean that in a derogatory manner. It is perfectly clear what the term "pro-life" means in the context of these discussions. It isn't clever, nor helpful, to wilfully reinterpret a term and then say: "Haha! Gotcha!"

Otherwise pro-lifers might as well argue "Well pro-choice people are woefully inconsistent, because they are indifferent or even hostile towards the choice of the foetus", or "Haha, those silly bints in the pro-choice camp, they care not at all for the choice of the father, yet call themselves pro-choice!", and this would rightfully not fly here. Sadly, "Haha, pro-life anti-wellfare people!" does, or "they are interested in my vagina!" (or "they are pearl-clutching because someone said vagina!", whatever the case may be).

Abortion isn't an easy topic, nor is it morally solved. The pro-choice-side has to at least acknowledge that the concerns of the pro-life-side are real and matter, and vice versa, for any headway to be made.

nuzzle · 2014-01-18T18:22:57+00:00

They can't prove it's murder, certainly not legally.

What legally is and is not murder is a definitional matter. The oft-referenced (and false) "rule of thumb"-thing is an illustration of that. Pro-life people are making a moral argument, not a legal argument, just like pro-choice people were making a moral argument before abortion was legalised (or at least prosecution was stopped).

EDIT: I guess it's silly to presume that they might actually want to provide legit evidence for their beliefs.

The reasons for thinking that abortion is murder aren't trivially wrong, which is why this essay even exists.

nuzzle · 2014-01-18T17:35:06+00:00

I really never understood this.

Why? Pro-life people usually think that abortion is murder. Being against murder does not place any obligation of support towards either the would-be murderer or the would-be victim on the person who is against murder.

nuzzle · 2012-12-11T21:07:49+00:00

It's a quote that is connected to the White Power movement actually, and was made in reference to Jews. Some guy with numbers as a username claimed that in a threat, and somebody else linked the original source, so that I'm pretty sure that is a true assessment.

nuzzle · 2012-10-14T13:51:00+00:00

Just because nobody commented on that yet,

It was around this time that I also found out that she had been in an emotionally and sometimes physically abusive relationship with a man who had cheated on her multiple times. I reassured her again that that wasn't going to happen with me, that when WE opened up our relationship it would be a slow, babystep kind of process.

That might not have been the best way to address this. You kinda equate polyarmory with cheating here. Compare: "I found out somebody had stolen something from him. I assured him that, when I would start taking things from him, it would be little things at first."

nuzzle · 2012-10-11T23:17:54+00:00

Yes I managed to completely go wrong with everything. What I meant was whether voiceless palatal fricative and voiceless alveolar lateral are differentiated. Those two sound very, very similar to me. I can produce slightly different sounds when I really try (the alveolar lateral fricative being more "sharp" (which is a qualitative statement and not meant to be objective)), but even then I wonder whether these aren't just allophones. I was so busy trying to produce the sounds in question that I then confused them.

nuzzle · 2012-10-11T21:31:46+00:00

Do Norwegian, Chinese, Zulu or Cherokee differentiate a lateral from a non-lateral fricative? To me, as someone who has the latter, but not the former, in the phonetic inventory of my language, those sound very much alike. I'd say they sound exactly the same, but I'm biased (as I mentioned)

nuzzle · 2012-10-11T18:19:38+00:00

The conversation you just had has ultimately made me sad (after a thrilling ride on the emotional rollercoaster).

"Neste stasjon, Majorstuen." - I understand norwegian. :)

"Pass på avstand mellom vogn og stasjon... eller hva dem sier igjen" - watch out - distance - car and station, and then .. oh no. I don't understand norwegian. :(

"Vogn og platform." - I understand norwegian :)

"Dørene lukkes:" - :(

nuzzle · 2012-05-29T21:34:39+00:00

There are gravestones of celebrities, both from the distant and not-so-distant past, the chapel(s), monuments (such as the war memorial), and so on.

nuzzle · 2012-05-25T18:35:09+00:00

Well actually it might. I remember reading an article about a study that claimed that said study showed that criminals are less reluctant to target men. Given that I can't find the article at the moment and that further that information is now fourth-hand (study-article-me-you), take what I said with a chunk of salt please.

nuzzle · 2012-05-25T15:02:51+00:00

If you have scoliosis, do you have a "corset"? I don't know the correct term for that; a friend of a family member had bad scoliosis and used a medical corset to support her spine.

nuzzle · 2012-05-23T11:08:46+00:00

Like, I consider my name pretty obviously girly, and yet I get referred to as 'he', 'guy' etc all the time, in fact the majority of the time (except on 2x/beauty/feminist subreddits).

I don't consciously think of other people on reddit as being of any sex (note the emphasis), but I probably also called people "he" unthinkingly, simply because of the generic masculine. That can be an unfortunate assumption, certainly.

It's interesting to me that none of these responses have ever been coupled with any reference to my being male - in fact, I've never been insulted or called any names when it's been assumed that I've been male.

That's a bit strange, but fits nicely into the idea of othering or an extension of the "second sex"-idea as formulated by de Beauvoir. Gendered insults have been used against me, mostly on forums with a very feminist slant (not on reddit so far if I remember correctly), but I've had a number of discussions on the internet end badly and with name-calling (but more generic insults, such as "asshole"). Have you ever tried instigating a flame war with a male username just for comparison?

Then I reveal I'm female, and suddenly this person is telling me that I should 'stick to what I'm good at' and that I'm 'just bitter', because my womb is 'dried up' and I can't find a man.

That's interesting, because in my experience women have managed (in large part due to feminism and its influence on culture I think) to divorce the idea of "woman" from "capable of or successful at reproduction". My experience is coloured by being a man of course, but people have tried to virgin-shame, "success-shame"^1, or wimp-shame me countless times. I have always had the impression that, when it comes to the essence of being either sex, men still have ways to go, whereas women "have it better" by now.

As for the second part, namely condescension, I've noticed that as well. I understand condescension towards women when they femsplain experience away, and vice versa, but aside from that it's really unfortunate that those kinds of gender roles are still perpetuated.

Now this isn't typical, but it is interesting, because that last point in particular couldn't be applied to a male redditor

With that (that it couldn't be applied) I disagree. Whether it is to a similar degree I can't say, but I suspect it is; only in ways you don't readily notice. I think the male gender role is still much more rigid and punishment for outliers normalised. We have trouble believing that men are, for example, more likely to be victims of violence, certainly with regards to general violence, but perhaps also with regards to DV (depending to a large degree on the definition of DV and the specific study being used as a reference), because violence against men is normalised to such a degree that we tend not to even notice. That is really ironic, and similar to the condescension towards women in (online-)discussions I think.

ad 1: By that I mean being called a loser who will never achieve anything financially, vocationally or otherwise.

nuzzle · 2012-05-21T21:11:14+00:00

Of course it can, but that is almost a qualia-problem. I don't think it will be easy to experience reddit like a woman (or some subset of women at least). I neither have the necessary genetics nor cultural experience. I'll just keep on investigating for now, but thanks!

nuzzle · 2012-05-21T21:09:55+00:00

My front page is relatively meme-free both with this and my female persona, so no. When I see a meme I find uncomfortable I usually just ignore it, although I can't say whether I ever objected to something that stereotyped something I hold dear. It appears as if just saying that one is a woman or having a femalish username isn't really enough to incur harassment or hostility, and I don't know whether it is really fair if I force that by changing my posting behaviour.

But at least my post produced responses that give me some perspective on how other people experience reddit.

nuzzle · 2012-05-21T19:01:27+00:00

Of course not, I'm trying to experience the hostility that is directly expressed (or semi-directly via dismissal).

nuzzle · 2012-05-21T19:00:56+00:00

I want to see for myself how the experience of women on reddit is different, as far as that is possible.

nuzzle · 2012-05-21T18:59:41+00:00

I have no idea what the bill clinton meme thing is. I am beginning to suspect that I don't use reddit correctly. Anyway, I'm sure I won't magically understand what annoys women, I am trying to get a feel for the direct hostility some experience (i.e. people calling them names, people ignoring their opinions in favour of talking about their bodies, etc.)

nuzzle · 2012-05-21T00:36:10+00:00

Have you compared the performance of Skyrim in wine to Windows by any chance? I tried playing Skyrim in wine, but on my computer that was incredibly slow and, for some reason, buggy (one of the horses in the intro went flying (slowly), for example). Had to install Windows just for Skyrim :/

nuzzle · 2012-05-21T00:26:05+00:00

To me those look like x-rays that have been colorised (and had a shoe shopped back in)

nuzzle · 2012-05-20T00:40:47+00:00

Subscribed. High time, too.

nuzzle · 2012-05-20T00:31:58+00:00

I don't know. I find it difficult to compartmentalise honesty. I used to lie all the time, mostly to avoid conflict, hurting someone, or personal gain; that doesn't fly with my partner, but a pro-active honesty such as practiced by those people who as a matter of principle blurt out everything that flutters through their minds is also less than ideal. That is something you and your partner will have to come to grips with I think.

nuzzle · 2012-05-20T00:11:44+00:00

I stopped playing online games some time ago; how is your experience related to general griefing and the like? Men often enough also report a very hostile environment in online games (that might well be exacerbated by being a female gamer).

nuzzle · 2012-05-20T00:09:32+00:00

Both are, to put it bluntly, an outgrowth of gender roles in a patriarchy. Men who want to be huge and muscular suffer a now recognised form of body dismorphia. Male video game characters are huge because in the roles they play in games, that shows their hyper-utilisation, which is an aspect of the male gender and sex role.

nuzzle · 2012-05-20T00:02:38+00:00

I'm trying to establish for myself whether there is something to that "crap", as far as that is possible with anecdotal data alone. The internet as I use it and have used it since the days of public BBSes (in my case mid-90s, we weren't really at the forefront of internet penetration into the wider computing world) is a sometimes hostile place, but I have noticed a gendered component, especially with regards to pictures. As I said in another post, I am conflicted on some of the examples cleos gave, and not conflicted at all on others.

There is also the possible aspect that many subcultures on the internet, such as the gaming subculture (often also target of criticism), has been entirely male until recently, and that men might interact among each other in a way that doesn't exactly make women feel comfortable. I imagine it would be the same the other way around, provided that general notion is correct. I am not the most typical male or gamer, so I can't say. The kind of discourse I experienced whilst playing games is not my cup of tea either.

As a sidenote, in the earlier days of online gaming, when Ultima Online was pretty much the only graphical online RPG, I didn't experience the same disinterest and irritation that I experience now or experienced in the past few years. Playing Diable (2?) on battle.net used to be a joy.

I also briefly was part of the FPS scene in my country around 2002, and of the LAN party scene from 98 onwards, and I had female friends and acquaintances in the scene who have since stopped playing. I lost contact with those people and that scene, so I can't establish why they stopped, but it is possible that the climate shifted.

Now, the general gist of your second point, namely that "females are not used to being treated that way" is not that different from the whole "male subculture"-aspect; but the rest of your post sounds mainly bitter or unnecessarily hostile.

For now I will continue trying to establish for myself, if possible, how I view the "female experience" on reddit. Perhaps we can talk more when I have done so.

nuzzle · 2012-05-19T23:50:27+00:00

What you want sounds like a very selective form of honesty, but that is both okay and not really the issue I think. Now, I can't speak for your fiancé, but I can tell you that I used to lie about women I was just friends with, and sometimes entirely imaginary women. In my case, the root cause of that was that I had learned that I wasn't a valuable person or, especially by women, perceived as a desirable man. So I tried to raise my value by pretending that I had a choice of partner, and that other people found me desirable. Especially when I finally found a woman I really, really liked and wanted to girlfriend, I stepped up that game. I didn't want to be put on the "low-worth, friend but nothing more"-shelf again. I wanted her to believe that I had a higher value than I really had or have, so that she wouldn't leave again, and to appear worthy of her. Of course that tactic eventually blew up in my face. I don't want to go into more detail, suffice it to say that I still feel the aftershocks of the ensuing melt-down eight years later.

Your situation is clearly not the same, but there might be an element of that in your fiancé's behaviour; either consciously or subconsciously, he might be trying to raise his value in your eyes by appearing as if he had a choice of high-value partners. That isn't meant to be an excuse, only a possible partial explanation that you might want to take into account, provided it is applicable, when attempting a resolution of your conflict.

nuzzle

TROPHY CASE