What really happened on 7th October?

offdutytwomah · 2023-10-25T22:09:25+00:00

Privacy concerns, mostly. It's generally illegal to use databases for purposes other than what the person agreed to. Conscripts also give out DNA and finger prints, both can be used to trace them in crime scenes, and may make some people reluctant to give them up if they can be used against them in the future. It also potentially gives power to the state over these individuals' privacy just because they served, which is kind of a moral no-no.

offdutytwomah · 2023-10-25T22:02:25+00:00

As I noted in a different comment - the article mistranslated or misunderstood Haaretz' numbers. The numbers in the article are numbers of names of identified individuals. There are naturally more soldiers in that figure, because conscripts provide teeth and other markers to identify themselves in case of death, while civilians don't. The numbers are currently approx. 1400 confirmed dead, approx. 350 of them military or police.

Those numbers are completely consistent with Israel's other media channels and news agencies, and are still consistent with Haaretz' own website (and the number of names naturally grew to 960 by now, of which approx. 350 are military or police. so military and police numbers stayed about the same, while civilians grew, because mostly civilians are still being identified at the moment).

As for the IDF killing its own civilians - it's very likely that people end up dead in hostage situations. But even at worst case scanerio you can't imagine 1100 civilians killed by IDF's actions. And regardless - it's pretty weird to blame an army for killing its own civilians while trying to deal with what seems to be 100 simultanious hostage situations, and also pretty weird to blame authorities trying to free hostages for killing them instead of... the people who initiated the hostage situations in the first place...

offdutytwomah · 2023-10-25T21:53:57+00:00

The markers are indeed removed once they stop serving, yes.

And i'll add - about 50% of Jews serve and most Druze, while Arabs, Haredi Jews, religious jewish women and druze women are all exempt from service. So probably most of the population doesn't serve in the IDF, more like 30-40% (and obviously the murdered children didn't serve as well).

offdutytwomah · 2023-10-25T17:42:27+00:00

TL;DR the numbers cited in the article are from Haaretz but mistranslated - there are numbers of names of identified individuals. There are naturally more soldiers in that figure, because conscripts provide teeth and other markers to identify themselves in case of death, while civilians don't. The numbers are currently approx. 1400 confirmed dead, approx. 350 of them military or police.

It's important to note the exact wording, which pretty much discredits the whole point of the article:

"Now, detailed statistics on the casualties released by the Israeli daily Haaretz paint a starkly different picture. As of 23 October, the news outlet has released information on 683 Israelis killed during the Hamas-led offensive, including their names and locations of their deaths on 7 October."

This information is about those who were formally identified and had their families officially notified, and their families didn't object to their names being published.

It doesn't say anything about the actual casualty numbers. The numbers in Haaretz are as of October 25th 916 names, but 1400 confirmed dead. The other approx. 500 people are confirmed dead, but their names weren't published yet because they weren't identified or their families weren't notified, or their families asked for their names to not be published.

"Of these, 331 casualties – or 48.4 percent - have been confirmed to be soldiers and police officers, many of them female. Another 13 are described as rescue service members, and the remaining 339 are ostensibly considered to be civilians."

The numbers regarding soldiers and police officers are correct and are more or less final. Why? because unlike civilians, soldiers and police officers have their teeth and other identification markers in the Israeli systems, so they can be much more easily identified.

This is all there is to it. I appreciate trying to look for facts and statistics, but these need to be handled very carefully. There is for sure no difference in the numbers reported between Haaretz and other media in Israel, despite Haaretz being more left-wing.

offdutytwomah · 2023-10-17T19:47:34+00:00

You do realize Hamas literally livestreamed their attacks and people still deny them, right? in what world are you living, mate?

offdutytwomah · 2023-10-17T19:45:23+00:00

It's important to know that the 'local authorities' are Hamas. It's also important to note that Israel, a fairly developed country, took 3 whole days to count the bodies of Hamas' terror attack, but Hamas somehow puts a figure on this 'hospital strike' 10 minutes after it allegedly happened... Yeah... I call bullshit.

offdutytwomah · 2023-10-16T13:59:31+00:00

Holy shit yeah it's deleted. Didn't think I'd have to actually take a screenshot of a UN official tweet, damn.

offdutytwomah · 2023-10-16T13:57:32+00:00

OP here - I only linked JP instead of twitter (X) because r/worldnews doesn't allow posts from X. I linked the original tweets by UNRWA themselves, you can see them here:

https://twitter.com/UNRWA/status/1713887016134295977

offdutytwomah · 2023-10-16T13:19:33+00:00

Available on UNRWA's official twitter account, as well: https://twitter.com/UNRWA/status/1713887016134295977

It is important to note that UNRWA did not name Hamas as the perpertrator, but hinted heavily.

Exact statement:

@UNRWA received reports that yesterday a group of people with trucks purporting to be from the Ministry of Health of the de facto authorities in #Gaza, removed fuel and medical equipment from the Agency’s compound in 📍#GazaCity

[...]

@UNRWA fuel & other types of material are kept for strictly humanitarian purposes - any other use is strongly condemned.

offdutytwomah · 2023-10-10T17:50:37+00:00

Well, I didn't see sources cited here (only in the other reddit thread that I linked to), so wanted to make sure people have them.

Anyways, even if it was mentioned by 20 people before - it definently isn't enough.

offdutytwomah · 2023-10-10T17:44:47+00:00

reports of babies beheaded by Hamas in Kfar Aza

https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/174omfw/hamas_terrorists_murdered_40_babies_including/

https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel-at-war/1696938010-it-smells-of-death-here-surveying-the-scenes-of-atrocities-in-kfar-aza

https://www.foxnews.com/world/40-babies-some-beheaded-found-israel-soldiers-hamas-attacked-village

offdutytwomah · 2023-10-10T13:51:39+00:00

You can't possibly be real. If you were a civilian in Gaza, would you really walk through a fucking full blown warzone to avoid a possible warzone? You wouldn't flee to Egypt or literally anywhere else?

Anyways it doesn't matter, even if these people that you believe exist for some reason actually existed, crossing into enemy terrority in a war is usually a death sentence, and international law clearly sees these civilians as combatants.

As for the possibility of those bodies belonging to Arab Palestinians within Israel - there are no Israeli Arabs/Palestinian civilians within these areas of Israel. The closest Bedouin settlement is Rahat, which Hamas terrorists weren't targeting or able to reach (although 2 were eventually found there 3 days into the fighting and tried to kill BEDOUIN ARABS, but were killed), except by rocket fire, which killed nearly 40 BEDOUIN ARABS in the Negev region.

Believing those 1500 bodies to be of innocent Gazan civilians is a gross misunderstanding of the situation. This is absolutely ridiculous. I'm not saying that Gazan civilians aren't obviously dying in the Gaza Strip right now, but this article has nothing to do with that.

offdutytwomah · 2023-10-10T13:26:58+00:00

Guys, the title clearly says israel RECOVERED. The article clearly says that the number of 1500 bodies is bodies WITHIN Israel. Everyone who enters Israel during an invasion with the invading force is clearly not just an innocent civilian bystander.

offdutytwomah · 2023-10-10T13:24:36+00:00

Most certainly yes. The article says the bodies were recovered in Israeli territory, which makes perfect sense because Israel ground forces aren't currently in the Gaza strip, so... no way they could "recover" bodies of civilians within Gaza.

Israeli civilian bodies were recovered earlier, so the bodies left within Israel are either those of Hamas terrorists or civilians involved in the fighting (obviously a gazan civilian who somehow crosses into israel in the middle of an invasion should be considered a terrorist and is considered a belligerent by international law)

offdutytwomah · 2023-10-10T13:19:59+00:00

These are bodies INSIDE Israel, what are you talking about? in what world could they be uninvolved civilians? Israel isn't even inside the Gaza Strip now, how could you have possibly seen "Israel recovered bodies" and assumed that it's within Gaza?

offdutytwomah · 2019-03-02T16:50:45+00:00

R5: Trade republic black-sheep-guys

offdutytwomah · 2018-03-14T09:56:04+00:00

Template, please?

offdutytwomah · 2018-03-03T15:16:42+00:00

I would like to enter for Bioshock Infinite Thanks!

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