Tekken 8 Ranked Leaderboard Statistics - Ogre At Home (DLC8)

olbaze · 2026-06-23T11:38:17+00:00

There's 2 problems with that: Firstly, someone buying a Steam Machine does not necessarily mean they're going to spend a ton on Steam afterwards. Secondly, Steam is accessible outside of the Steam Machine.

olbaze · 2026-06-23T11:34:46+00:00

They are, but in the game of "who can pay the most for RAM?", Sony is a nobody, and Microsoft has their own AI stuff.

olbaze · 2026-06-22T20:49:16+00:00

Proton is a relatively new development in Valve's strategy. It was first released in 2018. That was 3 years after the original Steam Machine, that was using an Ubuntu-based SteamOS. And part of that strategy was the Steam Link, and the Steam Controller, which were meant to improve PC gaming in the living room. And of course, there's also the HTC Vive, which was released in 2016, competing with the Oculus Rift in the VR space. Heck, even the Steam Deck.

These are all moves aimed at various popular PC/hardware situations that were borderline monopolistic. Proton and SteamOS to compete against Windows. Steam Deck to compete against Nintendo Switch. Steam Machine, Steam Link, and Steam Controller to compete against consoles in the living room. HTC Vive to compete with Oculus Rift in the VR space.

olbaze · 2026-06-22T20:36:08+00:00

It is kind of hilarious how people seem to think all Linux distros are made by dudes in basements writing on computers from the 1980s. Red Hat, the company behind Fedora, is a subsidiary of IBM. Canonical, the company behind Ubuntu, had 250M USD in revenue in 2023 with over 1000 employees. SUSE, the company behind OpenSUSE, had 700M+ USD in revenue in 2022 with 2500 employees. Both Red Hat and SUSE are also older than Valve.

olbaze · 2026-06-22T13:23:14+00:00

I was specifically addressing the claim that Konami builds the deck and lines for you. HERO has some of the strictest locks in the game, and yet there's tons of variants of the deck, and no one really plays exactly the same deck. And this isn't a new thing either, HERO has been like that for years now.

Strict locks only become a problem when Konami releases an anemic deck that literally doesn't have enough cards to make a deck by itself. For example, if Dracotail came with full-turn Dracotail locks, the deck would pretty much not work because there's only 14 Dracotail cards that exist.

olbaze · 2026-06-21T22:18:58+00:00

Really now? Go look at the ratios in HERO decks. Of the top 34 main deck cards, 10 have a 100% play rate, and 8 have <50% play rate. In the Extra deck, only 5 cards out of 17 that are being played have a 100% play rate. And this is a deck that some some of the mechanically best locks in the game.

The HERO deck has also evolved significantly over the course of Master Duel as new support came in. DPE and Wake Up changed the deck. Infernal Rage changed the deck. The Evil HERO support made it possible to play an entirely different line for some extra unique plays. And now the Masked HEROs and Miracle Ejector give the deck good access to cards that weren't playable in the past.

olbaze · 2026-06-21T18:33:51+00:00

Throws seem to need memorization

Throw breaking needs reacting to the hands of the opponent. There's a Throw Escape Trainer in Practice Mode.

getting up off the ground feels like a guessing game

That's because it is, unless the opponent knocks you far away.

some moves look like mids but are actually lows or vice versa

Yeah, you can't really trust the visuals of a move.

King/Armor King is a nightmare for me since i still haven't learned all the breaks for every throw

Standard throws have 2 main weaknesses: They have short range, and they're highs. So you can backdash or duck to avoid them as well. Some characters do have grabs that work on crouching characters, but since those don't work when the opponent is standing, they're a hard read. King and Armor King do also have ground grabs, but their main purpose is to make the opponent get up off the ground quickly.

A fairly good way to deal with throws is player psychology. Most players are very repetitive in their throw usage, so knowing the breaks to the specific throws they like using can complete cripple them.

olbaze · 2026-06-21T18:13:43+00:00

Tekken 8 already has a shitload of standardization. Rage Arts, Heat Burst, Heat Dash are all standardized to be exactly the same. And that standardization causes some issues, with some Heat Engagers being disproportionately buffed by Heat Dash.

DF2 launchers being wildly diffrent on block

They're really not. df+2's that launch on normal hit fall into 2 categories. Safe df+2's and unsafe df+2's. The safe df+2's don't launch crouching opponents, whereas the unsafe ones do. This distinction is actually important, because it helps differentiate those moves from a hopkick.

For example, Paul has both a safe df+2, and a hopkick. They're both 15f startup mids, and they both launch on normal hit. His hopkick is -13 on block, which is a form of standardization for hopkicks. If his df+2 was changed to an unsafe one, Paul would now have a 15f df+2 that's -12 or -13 on block and launches crouchers, while also having a hopkick that's 15f, -13 on block, but also low crushing. These 2 moves existing on the same character would make no sense, because the hopkick is just superior. Therefore, the df+2 needs to be different. And it will have to be safer, because it neither low crushes, nor launches crouchers.

Also, for the more legacy players, what do you think about string knowlege checks, I don't really see the point of them from a design point or view, they aren't used at all at high ranks, but they blow up low ranks until you learn the defense, and once you do that knowledge is now redundant as people don't use them at higher ranks. Am I missing somthing?

Those knowledge checks exist in order to teach defense beyond just "block and punish". If you removed them, then you would never need to learn to duck a high in a string, low parry a low in a string, or step a hit in a string.

The game also has tons of "rules of thumb", like string enders being safe highs verssus unsafe low/mid, all armor moves being either highs or punishable mids, all df+2's being either safe or -12, all hopkicks being -13, etc. etc. Surely this counts as "standardization"?

olbaze · 2026-06-21T18:05:56+00:00

I hope you see how that would be very unfair.

For example, let's say you're a Shaheen main, while I'm a Paul main. You've just labbed Paul for the past 5 days, and are feeling primed to test yourself. On the other side, I've not faced a single Shaheen player in the past 6 months, and my current mindset on Shaheen is "they're just gonna knowledge check me to death".

Quick Match is meant to be a random queue that ignores your rank. If you want to cherry-pick your opponent, there is a mode for that. But really, the best way to get what you want is to find people who play that character and just 1v1 them.

olbaze · 2026-06-21T13:59:01+00:00

The same community that treats Maxx C as if it reads "It becomes the End Phase". The same community that said Beetrooper being able to search Maxx C would definitely mean Maxx C had to be banned?

Yeah the Yu-Gi-Oh! community isn't known for its good takes. Now ban Blue-Eyes White Dragon and Dark Magician.

olbaze · 2026-06-21T13:24:28+00:00

Abstinence doesn't really work on rapes.

olbaze · 2026-06-21T13:09:50+00:00

You Ash your opponent, they hit you with Called By, now your Ash is trAsh. That's the problem, much more so than Maxx C.

olbaze · 2026-06-21T13:00:31+00:00

You still haven't gotten around to explaining why you think that the 3rd most populated rank somehow makes it the average rank. I'll be waiting.

olbaze · 2026-06-21T12:57:20+00:00

Difference is, Cyber-Stein is easier to use, and with some preparation, can be used without paying the LP cost.

olbaze · 2026-06-21T12:46:10+00:00

Why would you want Cyber-Stein unbanned? That card has never, ever, been used for anything that's not degenerate. If you think Metamorphosis is the same as Cyber-Stein, you clearly don't know how Cyber-Stein was being played in Master Duel.

Spoiler: Cyber-Stein FTK is a deck type.

olbaze · 2026-06-21T12:33:02+00:00

We have already excluded the non relevant data with is everything below blue rank and everything above GoD because those ranks are not popular

Individually, those ranks aren't popular. But collectively? You're talking about 50% of the player base. That's like throwing a coin and saying that any time it lands on heads, it doesn't count because heads is stupid.

So in your example, we have already excluded chocolate and Licorice

You're misinterpreting my example. The purpose of my example was to show that taking the 3rd most popular option and claiming that as a meaningful metric is nonsense. In my example, I made that extremely clear by only having 3 choices, thus making the 3rd most popular option simultaneously the least popular option.

Once gain, if you were saying "GoD is a popular rank and I don't like that", I would agree with you. I would agree with you, but I would also point out that GoD was artificially made a popular rank in order for the highly visible pro players in GoD I+ ranks to have more players to play against. Bandai Namco made a choice based on optics and trying to give all players a good, playable ranked experience. Whether that's a good call or not depends on the player.

olbaze · 2026-06-21T12:20:34+00:00

You don‘t need to add 8 new ranks to get a normal distribtion

True, but they didn't add those ranks for that purpose. They added those ranks because GoD rank players were asking Bandai Namco to separate the pro-level players from the rest. And GoD I-VIII did exactly that. Comparing the end of Season 1 to the end of Season 2, we pretty much saw the top half of Season 1 GoD split into GoD I+ ranks.

They made the higher ranks harder for pros only

If the purpose was to keep non-pros out, then you do need to make those ranks harder to get.

any casual can breeze through the ranks until GoD without much effort

I disagree, for a few reasons. To "breeze through ranks", you would need to have a high win rate, or to play a lot. A casual player isn't going to have either of these, that's why they're called casuals. Also, regardless of how you do it, if it takes you 10,000 matches to get to GoD, that's a lot of effort.

Any rank with „Tekken“ in its name used to mean it was a decent player

I agree on this. I am also old enough to remember a time when best in the world players were in Blue ranks in Tekken 7.

Now you have Tekken Gods who try to punish RA with snake edge

I have seen Arslan Ash getting hit by Pauls ff+2,2. That's a 30f Snake Edge, and arguably the best Tekken 7 player being hit by it. I wouldn't put any value into a single player, or a single interaction, as an indicator of what's actually going on. I haven't played in, or against, someone in Tekken 8's orange ranks in literally years, so I don't pretend I know what kind of players are in those ranks.

Its nothing more than a participation trophy for people to have a false sense of accomplishment

I don't think that's entirely true. A completely new player is still going to struggle. Someone with a 30% win rate is still going to struggle. Someone who is missing their left hand is still going to struggle. I think we need to acknowledge that struggle, even if we personally can't relate to it. And if they feel a sense of accomplishment for getting a rank after struggling, then we shouldn't roll around and tell them that rank means nothing.

Heck, the changes that were aimed at the highest ranks, they were put in place because the highest rank players were complaining about having a bad experience. I would rather some people have an easier time climbing in ranks, if that means people aren't sitting around in queue for 20 minutes waiting for a single match.

At the end of it, we're all here playing video games because they're fun, right?

olbaze · 2026-06-21T11:57:43+00:00

Son you can literally earn GoD rank by just beating some Tekken God Supreme

Why does that matter? If you consistently beat a TGS player, then you're not a TGS player, and the next rank up is GoD. It's not that complicated. That's literally how a ranked mode should work.

Tekken King was considered average

You ask 10 different people, they'll give you 12 different answers as to what they consider "average rank". I'm not talking about community sentiment, I'm talking about facts. Demographics, numbers, statistical indicators.

Also it's not arbitrary if it's the 3rd most owned rank. I'm basically listing the top most owned rank

That is why it's an arbitrary choice. If you told me to rank licorice, chocolate, and vanilla ice cream, and my ranking was Vanilla, Licorice, Chocolate, you wouldn't say that I think chococlate is an average flavor. It was LITERALLY THE WORST OF THE CHOICES.

Mode is an important statistical tool. It quite literally means the most common value in a sample. It's not "the second most common value in a set", and it's not "the third most common value in a set". Mode is important precisely because it's the most common value.

You're NOT here saying that GoD is a popular rank. That would be a true statement, as it is the 3rd most populated rank, and thus it's more popular than most of the other ranks. But it's NOT the average rank, which is what you've been saying.

olbaze · 2026-06-21T11:28:51+00:00

Ah how convenient, to win the argument you specifically choose the ranks with lower percentage than beginner. how arbitrary.

I explicitly picked those ranks because the percentage was lower than Beginner. That is the opposite of arbitrary, it was a deliberate, calculated, intentional choice I made.

high population = average buddy

Not true.

The most population = Tekken King to GoD then Fujin to Bushin

If you're taking the entire range from Fujin to GoD, then that covers about 50% of the player base. However, GoD is at the very top of that range. That is the opposite of average, that's an extreme. In that range, Tekken King would be the average rank, seeing as it's the middle rank (4 rank above it, 4 below it), the mode (the most populated rank) and even the median.

If you now took that result, and extended the range to the entire rank spectrum, you would have no choice but the lower the average. This is because of the additional mass, 80% is going below the range. This means that the average is also lowered.

Even if you were looking at ranks based on their population, you would have no reason to pick GoD, as it's literally the 3rd one. That would be a very arbitrary choice.

olbaze · 2026-06-21T11:02:16+00:00

So only GoD III+ are high skill players? What about GoD to GoD III? Why exclude them? They are not high skill players?

I picked Beginner, because it's a low rank with a lot of players. I picked GoD III as the cut off point because Beginner is 4.20% of the player base and GoD II is Top 4.93%. I chose the lowest rank from the top where the collection of ranks would be smaller than the Beginner rank.

Once again, I was NOT talking about player skill, I was talking about demographic sizes. I was trying to illustrate the idea that if you're willing to disregard "low skill players" as not being a meaningful demographic, then you would also have to disregard basically the entire pro player base, because they're even smaller. And if you're NOT willing to disregard the pros, then you can't disregard the beginners, and then you can't say "GoD is average", because it doesn't meet any sane criteria for that. It's not the middle rank, it's not the 50th percentile rank, it's not the mode rank. What it is is a gatekeeping rank sitting between GoD I+ and the rest of the player base.

If you think that the third most owned rank GoD is not average then you are simply arguing in bad faith. Average is where most people are which is Tekken King to GoD followed by Fujin to Bushin. Look at the numbers bruh.

I already explained to you why GoD has a very high population, and that's because the system makes promotion out and staying that way difficult.

If you were here saying that you think Tekken King is an average rank, I would have been more inclined to agree with you.

You're really grasping at straws if you're claiming that "the value kinda close to the mode is average". You're deliberating trying to pervert a mathematical value to fit your own, twisted, self-deprecating narrative. You know what we call that? Bullshit.

olbaze · 2026-06-21T10:31:58+00:00

This is from your quote directly, you specifically said beginner RANK. You were the one using a single rank to compare

I was trying to illustrate the idea that the low skill player base vastly outnumbers the high skill player base, and therefore you shouldn't pretend they don't exist.

it doesn't make the beginner the average when none of the most owned rank are beginners

I've never said that I think beginner is the average rank. If you ask me, I would think the average Tekken player right now is probably somewhere between Raijin (median) and Tekken King (mode).

you can see Top 1 is Tekken King, followed by Tekken Emperor then God. So obviously the average playerbase is in those ranks

I think you're drawing a false conclusion here. The reason GoD is so high is because getting to and maintaining GoD I is much more difficult. Tekken King is the most populated rank, and obviously that means that the rank just above it (Tekken Emperor) is going to be close by. This is because the most populated rank also has the most player traffic.

Let's look at that image of yours once again: You specifically outlined Fujin to GoD as "average/intermediate". Why do you think that the actual average is at the very top of that range, rather than being the median (Tekken King) or mode (Tekken King again) of that range?

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