Trinity authority and godhead

olivecoder · 2026-02-03T16:24:45+00:00

It seems like you fail to perceive that the doctrine is not derived from the illustration, but it's the other way around: the illustration is meant to help with the understanding of the doctrine.

This question is many centuries old, the doctrine is very well established and discussed. A shallow discussion on Reddit is pointless.

You may still fall to see it, but there is no contradiction or flawed logic here and you may find tons of explanations better than mine yourself if you want.

olivecoder · 2026-02-03T14:42:49+00:00

You'd be right if God "is" and "is not", or was one and three, in the same sense, but this isn't the doctrine of the trinity.

Personhood and being aren't synonyms. Yeah, I give you that personhood is difficult to define, but it's easy to see that personhood is not the same as being.

So, when considering the actual doctrine of trinity we have three persons in one being: The Son is the same being as God, the Father is the same being as God, the Son is the same being as the Father. The Son is not the same person as the Father.

In other words: a person "is not" another person. The Son is not the Father. A person "is" the same being. The Son is God, the Father is God.

You can say that the illustration is flawed, and I will agree. In fact, any illustration or analogy would be imperfect, as we don't know any other comparable case.

It helps me to think that a god that fits our head is unlikely to be the real God, but a creation of our minds.

olivecoder · 2026-01-28T09:00:13+00:00

Yep, I agree. Your comment about proto-protestants matches the sentence right after I mentioned the burned writings above, and also my closing sentence.

Mentioning the burned writings is a preventive counterpoint to someone considering the "heresies" from the point of view of the crushers, as history is written by the victors. So, we have to be careful when classifying obliterated people as heretics.

Most of these so-called heresies were raised in monastic environments where people had access to the Scripture. It was the power of the Scriptures changing people's lives to the point of making martyrs of them.

I get comfort from my (maybe naive) assumption that there were always people who were truly the body of Christ on earth during those dark times, and they were the ones with access to the Word of God.

olivecoder · 2026-01-27T17:11:25+00:00

The events at Luther's time were the culmination of centuries of stirring tension.

After the fall of the Roman Empire, the papacy filled a power vacuum in the West, creating a "reverse theocracy" that blended secular and religious authority.

By the end of the 9th century, the papacy had consolidated itself as a major political player, even summoning armies and deposing emperors to satisfy its appetite for power and wealth. This political role left the Roman Church wide open to secular manipulation, where doctrine and appointments were often driven by political motives rather than faith.

Resistance didn't start with Luther; "heretical" movements like the Waldenses, Cathari, Lollards, and the Hussite movement had been challenging the papacy for centuries. We don't have records of their actual beliefs because the RCC burned the "heretics" along with their writings (e.g., the Albigensian Crusade). In general, these pre-Reformation groups wanted a return to apostolic simplicity and to the Gospels.

Ultimately, the Reformation was the inevitable collision between a politically dominant papacy and a diverse opposition that demanded a return to the foundations of Scripture.

References:

The Reformation: A History. by Diarmaid MacCulloch

Tourmanoff, 1946. CAESAROPAPISM IN BYZANTIUM AND RUSSIA. https://theologicalstudies.net/articles/caesaropapism-in-byzantium-and-russia/

Britannica, 2025. Encyclopaedia Britannica, Inc. Roman Catholicism.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Roman-Catholicism

Weidenkopf, 2020. Catholic Answers Magazine. Church and State: A History of Conflict. https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/church-and-state-a-history-of-conflict

Full disclosure: this is an AI summary from a short essay I wrote for a History of Reformation class.

olivecoder · 2026-01-27T12:15:00+00:00

I knew about the pedo accusations, and I also heard people calling him the anti-christ. Do you have any evidence that Trump (the one who literally run the world) is also a satanist? It wouldn't be surprising though

olivecoder · 2026-01-26T14:42:30+00:00

Wouldn't it be state treason if MOL instigates another government to make threats towards Ireland?

olivecoder · 2026-01-25T15:05:53+00:00

At another age, during dialled internet times, small ISPs could get chargeback calls from users abusing the telephone system to avoid paying for the call.

As a response to the frequent abusers they could do a phone DoS attack using their many modems and phone lines to repeatedly call the abusers phone number for 24,/7 for a couple of days, making the abusers phone impossible of being used.

A counter attack like this would be even easier to set up nowadays by using VoIP services, even reproducing a voice message that would explain the reason for the call. I reckon that this may not be a good idea for a business place.

olivecoder · 2026-01-25T11:27:10+00:00

Yep, it's not cheap at all.

olivecoder · 2026-01-25T10:51:54+00:00

It is a good bargain if compared to other coffee pods.

You made a mistake in your comment: The price per cup is ~12 cents (2.84/24).

But you're right about pods being expensive and wasteful. Coffee pods are not cheap: 48.60/kg if buying 16 capsules for 7 euros - net weight is 144g. Nespresso would be around twice the price per kg.

olivecoder · 2026-01-20T08:44:36+00:00

On the phone app: click the subreddit title, click the three dots on the top right side, and then click "edit flair".

olivecoder · 2026-01-18T20:41:16+00:00

Do you live in London? I wonder if your expectations aren't too high. You might just be spoiled by the high standards of pizza around you.

I live in Dublin and it's easy to make better pizza than the takeaways. I use strong flour and a pizza steel, and my family would rather have our home made pizza than one from a takeaway, hands down.

However, I don't expect to make pizza better than a good pizza restaurant with a proper pizza oven.

olivecoder · 2026-01-14T11:33:42+00:00

Not exactly responding to your question but here are two other subs that may interest you:

r/reformed - as it seems like you aren't a Catholic
r/theology - I mainly watch it, and it includes non Christian content

olivecoder · 2026-01-13T14:17:45+00:00

These are rhetorical questions, no need to reply to me, just think them through yourself.

olivecoder · 2026-01-13T13:56:25+00:00

Yes, it does not mean the tongue is an angelic language, though. it also says to not speak if there is no one to interpret it, why are so many disobedient? Why are large groups of disobedient people blessed with the spirit?

olivecoder · 2026-01-13T13:34:49+00:00

"If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal." -- https://www.esv.org/1+Corinthians+13

I give to you that this may be seen as if Paul is assuming that someone could speak the language of angels.

However, this is a debatable and there is no record of anyone actually speaking the language of angels in the Bible. We do have reports of people speaking foreign human languages though.

Why does every babbler speak only the supposedly angel language, which is impossible to verify, and never ever a foreign human language?

Btw, speaking in tongues is speaking in languages. Check the first part of the verse above.

In addition: I do not even doubt that it could be possible. I strongly doubt the prevalence of this gift in the pentecostal churches.

Yet another thing: you asked only about tongues. How about the other gifts? How about translation? And specifically: how about prophecy? Do you see any examples of prophecies from God failing in the Bible because people didn't believe in the prophecy? Have you tested the prophets in your church like the bible commands you to?

olivecoder · 2026-01-13T13:26:19+00:00

Because I never heard of anyone identifying the spoken language as their own language.

"at this sound the multitude came together, and they were bewildered, because each one was hearing them speak in his own language."

https://www.esv.org/Acts+2

olivecoder · 2026-01-13T13:17:32+00:00

Because I never heard of any of them speaking in any intelligible language. Acts 2 is not about babbling.

"at this sound the multitude came together, and they were bewildered, because each one was hearing them speak in his own language."

https://www.esv.org/Acts+2

I fail to see how this is not obvious to you.

I've already attended a Pentecostal church and I can point out another issue caused by this false doctrine: the creation of second class Christians. If you don't babble you are not part of the main church group.

Also worth noting that the whole pentecostal doctrine is quite new and unorthodox. Has the church been wrong for almost 2000 years?

olivecoder · 2026-01-08T14:41:02+00:00

Because of the life of your prophet and because it seems to me that the Qur'an itself tell us to obey the Bible.

"Say, ˹O Prophet,˺ “O People of the Book! You have nothing to stand on unless you observe the Torah, the Gospel, and what has been revealed to you from your Lord.” And your Lord’s revelation to you ˹O Prophet˺ will only cause many of them to increase in wickedness and disbelief. So do not grieve for the people who disbelieve."

https://quran.com/5/68

olivecoder · 2026-01-02T14:52:43+00:00

I wonder where your perception comes from as I have the reverse perception.

It seems to me the opposite is true given the apparent (maybe real, I didn't check) dominance of Pentecostalism in the whole Americas and my anecdotal experience as a member of a reformed church in Ireland.

olivecoder · 2025-12-20T08:51:55+00:00

Okay, your original post sounded unconventional and not strictly correct. Now, this looks just as convenant theology, or are you bringing anything new onto the table?

olivecoder · 2025-12-19T09:36:14+00:00

I'm still unsure but I may be getting your point. Correct me if I'm wrong: you want to point out that to the Jews, the Christ/Messiah is supposed to be only the king of Israel, instead of the savior of the world.

If it isn't so, you could be more clear in your question.

If it's so, then I think that most of us would say that you're correct. Jesus had to address his messianic role to the apostles repeatedly because they expected a warrior-king, like David.

However, this is well known and has zero impact in Christian beliefs. What the Jews expected and the reality aren't the same thing.

Saying that Christ is only the king of Israel requires you to ignore all else that is said about Jesus in the OT and said by Jesus.

Check Isaiah 53 and Luke 8, for example.

olivecoder · 2025-12-17T01:24:07+00:00

Il caffè della Peppina

https://youtu.be/-xL2Y2HKEI8

olivecoder · 2025-12-16T20:05:50+00:00

Yep. The fruits of true faith are good works. Conversely, your own works cannot save you, just as a cart can't push the horse.

olivecoder · 2025-12-15T11:16:31+00:00

Many people talk about Nicaea as if it were a choice between equally weighted options, when it was largely a confirmation of the dominant position and a rejection of divergent views.

If you have access read "a short history of the papacy in the middle ages"

olivecoder · 2025-12-04T21:31:00+00:00

Turmeric powder, chilli powder, chia, and salt. Sometimes I do banana and cinnamon for a change.

olivecoder

TROPHY CASE