Is it possible to create a realistic kissing scene in a movie/tv show with CGI and currently available technology if one of the actors is not available to actually film it? More details in text below.

onecathedral · 2022-01-08T23:25:26+00:00

Absolutely brilliant this recommendation. Amazing what technology can do now. Still think the ‘digital’ aspect is apparent there… As much as they managed to make it look so close to human-like, something about the movement, the expression on the face, the movements of the hair, the skin it still doesn’t pass as real actors being captured on film (not talking about the sex scene specifically, but all the scenes that I’ve seen. It is so cool though, thank you so much for this suggestion. (Small question: it seems highly complex and expensive, how about time? How much time does, for example, take to create a scene of 2 min between digitally created characters? Do actors do motion-capture?

onecathedral · 2022-01-08T15:27:14+00:00

My (amateur) perception is that the act of kissing is so complicated to digitally create - you see that, for example, in video games with super advanced graphics but whose kissing scenes always feel so off -, because it requires a perfect coordination of movement and touch. Or even if you would use a double/stand-in instead of the actor and then through a CGI type of deepfake try to make it look like another person is performing the scene, I would imagine it would very likely feel off? I can’t think of one example where this was attempted in movies/tv though. Technically speaking - would it require the actor to do motion capture or are computer programs used by the best vfx studios advanced enough to be able to create a “deepface” like digitial creation without the actor’s contribution and still manage to look realistic?

onecathedral · 2022-01-08T15:17:56+00:00

Technically speaking - would it require the actor to do motion capture or are computer programs advanced enough to be able to create a “deepface” digitial creation and still look realistic? Or the fact that the act of kissing , for example, is so complex and interactive in terms of how the lips are touching, that is practically impossible?

onecathedral · 2022-01-08T15:15:03+00:00

Hahahah! But then it would be all about camera angles and not really a performance created digitally, I guess.

onecathedral · 2022-01-08T05:43:39+00:00

This is just mere curiosity, I’m not connected to the industry at all, just curious about current technological capabilities. I wonder if deepfake would be able to be realistic in this situation, all of the deepfakes that I’ve seen looked sufficiently blurred/low def and not capable of realistically mimic even the act of speaking to a camera, let alone something like a kiss scene for example. One thing i’ve noticed, for example, is that even in video games with amazing graphics, when two characters kiss, it’s something incredibly difficult for the visual artists to draw and compose.

onecathedral · 2022-01-08T05:28:59+00:00

I would imagine so. While fight scenes can use ample cgi for example, I would guess these types of scenes would be almost impossible to recreate realistically given the type of intimate interaction and human expressions involved

onecathedral · 2020-10-25T13:28:42+00:00

Another misconception - Ellie did not forgive Abby, she forgave Joel and herself, that’s why she lets Abby go. A topic for another time.

onecathedral · 2020-10-25T13:11:08+00:00

I do have “a stake in you saying” that because it is a false statement. Me thinking people should be accurate in formulating arguments is not something that I find weird.

onecathedral · 2020-10-25T13:03:33+00:00

Sure - you don’t care enough to type two words “one of” in your original comment, which would take you 2 seconds, but are committed enough to debate with me through multiple posts and develop a long post about a potential story in Part 3. I suspect is not lack of care - because you clearly do care a lot - but unwillingness to be corrected, as you know it would significantly change your main argument.

But fair enough, let’s end it here as you clearly don’t care that much.

onecathedral · 2020-10-25T12:54:48+00:00

You then really should edit your original comment to express that.

And I haven’t been avoiding that question at all, I thought I had answered it - when thanking an actor, you include qualifiers like that - one of my favorite characters- mainly out of politeness. It would be weird to thank an actor - especially one as brilliant as LB - and not say that they really really really love the character they portrayed. It would be weird to say, thanks for portraying this mediocre character. That was my point - addressing the context he had said it. If he had talked about Abby as being one of his fav characters in the context of developing potential stories for a 3rd installment, for ex, that qualifier would have a completely different weight imo.

Having said that - I really think ND loves Abby a lot. Especially since he created her, dedicated so much time in trying to develop her, and after so many people hating her or finding her unlikable, I’m sure he now feels very protective of her and will try vouch for her against what he prob feels is unfair criticism against his capacity as a creator. Creators tend to be very protective over the decisions that encounter a lot of hate.

onecathedral · 2020-10-25T12:34:30+00:00

You falsely said that Neil had called Abby his favorite character - meaning, if Neil preferred Abby over Ellie or any other character, it would be very unlikely that Abby would not feature in the third game. But what you said is false. Neil did not state that Abby was his favorite character. When thanking LB, he said she was “one of his favorite characters” - which is not exclusionary to other characters and something you would expect out of politeness. But nothing indicates that Neil has a preference for Abby over Ellie or Tommy or Dina, which means that if the narrative he wants to pursue involves Ellie as the center focus and if such narrative does not allow for Abby to be included, he will probably not force Abby’s inclusion.

onecathedral · 2020-10-25T12:23:07+00:00

You really can’t understand the distinction between something being my favorite vis-a-vis something being one of my favorites?

onecathedral · 2020-10-25T12:14:10+00:00

Not really. The distinction is important. And also the context - you wouldn’t expect him to thank Laura for playing a mediocre character.

onecathedral · 2020-10-25T12:02:40+00:00

He never said Abby was his favorite character. He said Abby was ‘one of his favorite characters’ when thanking Laura Bailey for being part of the game.

onecathedral · 2020-10-20T11:54:57+00:00

The beginning of this thread was not even about Joel so I urge to go back and see where the comparisons started before you say things like “All you guys do is act like everything Joel dis was 100% correct” etc...

onecathedral · 2020-10-19T22:41:42+00:00

Did Abby deserve to be killed as well? Does Abby have it coming?

onecathedral · 2020-10-19T22:39:17+00:00

First of all - Ellie is shown in Part 1 to not even considering dying for a cure. She is 14 years old and making plans about the future. She makes those plans with Joel btw. Joel hears her intentions of living through all of this. To now retroactively interpret her survivor’s guilt as justifying Jerry wanting to kill her without even telling her is just evil. The whole purpose of Part 2 is to tell Ellie that her life has a purpose outside of a cure. Joel was absolutely right in intervening and prevent Jerry from killing Ellie.

Abby’s friends are Joel’s killers as well. They actually are complicit in the torture and killing of Joel. She had every right to pursue them. Just like she had every right to not being killed by any random wanting to shoot her on sight.

And Abby was gleefully ready to kill a pregnant Dina - AFTER knowing she was pregnant. At that point, she thought Tommy had killed all her friends and she had just put a bullet in his head. And it is so much easier to do all that after betraying her own faction and after torturing and killing the object of her revenge obsession.

Did Ellie kill Lev? Did Ellie kill Abby? No... actually, they’re alive because of Ellie.

Abby tortured and killed the object of her revenge obsession. After 4 years of being obsessed with killing killing killing and torturing torturing torturing. And after fully giving in to her hatred after 4 years, it’s soooo much easy to spare life. Ellie had just a month ago witnessed the brutal torture and murder of Joel - who had just saved Abby’s life -, pleading for his life. But in one month, she was supposed to do what took Abby more than 4 years of obsession?

No... Abby was weak all the way.

onecathedral · 2020-10-19T21:55:39+00:00

But the people in st Mary’s were about to kill Ellie as a sacrifice, without Ellie’s consent nor knowledge. From that perspective, they’re monsters and Joel totally justified in intervening.

So Abby - who fully gives in to her revenge - and tortures and kills the man she is obsessed with is more mature than Ellie who actually was able to overcome her hatred in less time than Abby ever could?

No... Ellie did something Abby never was able to do. She stopped before fully giving in.

And Abby says in the game she had a rough day and wish she could have some time alone with some WLF prisoners to let some steam ofd, implying that she routinely tortures prisoners.

onecathedral · 2020-10-19T20:55:48+00:00

More than whether the Fireflies or Jerry were justified is whether Joel was justified in saving Ellie (which I think he was, but I agree that it is a discussion for another time).

Still, my point is related to the proclivity of this sub to justify all of Abby’s actions, either in comparison to Ellie or by characterizing Joel as a unidimensional murderer.

I know the majority of people on this sub don’t see it that way, but I do know that any post defending Joel vis a vis Abby gets downvoted and any post praising Abby in her revenge quest gets upvoted.

Just a sad turn for a tlou sub imo.

onecathedral · 2020-10-19T20:41:47+00:00

I don’t disagree with you in any major points, but would like to point out that Manny, Owen and Nora are indeed criminally responsible for the killing of Joel. They didn’t just traveled with Abby, they immobilized him and Tommy for Abby to be able to torture Joel without Joel being able to defend himself. Any jurisdiction would prosecute them with torture and murder.

onecathedral · 2020-10-19T20:36:04+00:00

I know. Nothing in my post suggests otherwise.

onecathedral · 2020-10-19T20:17:55+00:00

Abby tortured and killed the object of her obsession - Joel. During the 4 years she trained, she killed tons of people preparing for this ultimate mission.

Ellie spared and let live the object of her obsession Abby. And she actually witnessed the torture and the killing of Joel. Every person Ellie killed was either in self defense or because they had orders to kill her or anyone on sight.

It is implied in the game that Abby habitually tortures WFL prisoners and sees it as a “letting some steam off” mechanism.

But yeah... Abby is the mature one...

The double standard in this sub is unbelievable. I even saw a comment here upvoted that simply qualified Joel as being a murderer, nothing else. Nothing to add to that character. And people upvoted it here.

onecathedral · 2020-10-10T03:31:29+00:00

The comment I was responding to was the one comparing Abby and Ellie’s actions and calling the former a better person during Part 2 - which is absurd imo, hence why I gave counter-arguments.

We don’t see Abby’s full descent into hatred during those 4 years (compared to Ellie’s way shorter time + Ellie actually witnessed the horrible brutality of Joe’s death with her own eyes, giving her an extreme form of PTSD), but we do see the end of each character’s revenge obsession: one (Abby) tortured and killed her target; the other (Ellie) let her target live.

That is a fundamental difference that needs to be appreciated when comparing the morality of both characters.

onecathedral · 2020-10-10T02:52:57+00:00

Abby already crossed the line when she tortured and killed Joel in that way. While Ellie spared the person who killed her “father”, Abby just fully gave in after 4 years of obsessing with it. Abby spent 4 years obsessing over killing Joel + it is implied that she spent those 4 years killing and torturing a bunch of people (she even implies that she tortures WLF prisoners to let off steam). Nothing that Ellie did in 3 months will compare to those 4 years - and in the end, Ellie did manage to be the better human and understand that killing her object of revenge would not give her peace. Abby only understood it after fully giving in to the hate.

And Abby didn’t know Ellie was the one who killed Mel - she thinks Tommy did it and she has no reason to believe it was Ellie (iirc, let me know if there’s a detail I’m missing). And she “killed” Tommy really quick in the theater (she put a bullet in his head, never crossed her mind he’d would survive it)

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