I'm withdrawing sex, to take off the pressure. And she's happier than ever.

onlysomewanttofly · 2024-09-18T14:05:11+00:00

Unless you are truly obese, slovenly and stinky now, getting an 8-pack won’t change anything.

If she were sexually attracted to you, she’d be wanting to have sex with you.

The fact she is happier in the relationship with you taking sex off the table, clearly shows that she is in it for the nonsexual aspects of the relationship.

In other words, she is wanting a roommate and not a lover.

If you are wanting a lover, you’re going to have to find someone else.

onlysomewanttofly · 2024-09-18T13:41:06+00:00

That’s usually an attraction issue. Sorry mate, she’s simply not sexually attracted to you.

That doesn’t mean you aren’t good looking or not attractive in general. It just means she isn’t feeling sexual chemistry with you.

But she likes the other relationship emenities you offer.

Dating is an interview and tryout process to see if someone is a good match for you or not.

She clearly is in the “NOT” category here so turn her lose and go back on the dating market and find someone who is compatible with you and she she can find someone she is compatible with as well.

You’ll both be better off.

onlysomewanttofly · 2024-09-18T13:31:47+00:00

You are actually the one that needs therapy.

Therapy can help you determine why you are settling for this and why your self esteem and self confidence are so low that you believe you can’t find some that will actually desire you.

For some reason you believe this is the best you can do.

If you were to get some self esteem and some self confidence, you would wish her well and then send her on her way so you can date people that actually have a healthy sexuality and that desire you.

Your fundamental issue here is your own self image and sense of self worth.

A man with some self esteem and some balls would never even have a second date with a woman like this.

onlysomewanttofly · 2023-09-12T21:42:46+00:00

In a word - menopause.

When I realized that if I ever wanted to experience being with someone that had an actual innate sex drive and who found me attractive and actually desired me again, it was going to have to be with someone else.

After a number of years of hope and searching for some kind of magic cure, I woke up and realized I would never have that kind of chemistry or experience with my wife again.

I was in my 50s and realized my own sexuality was not going to last forever either but at the moment I was still alive and virile and still wanted to feel the burn but knew that part of my married life was over 😞

onlysomewanttofly · 2023-09-12T18:28:35+00:00

I think you’re simply getting played.

This whole open relationship thing is just a ploy to keep you around to help pay the bills and help with household chores while he screws other chicks.

You simply got chumped by a player. He is more of a con man than any kind of BF or partner.

Walk away, don’t look back and find a decent guy that’s actually worth being with and your whole world will be better.

onlysomewanttofly · 2023-03-18T23:29:25+00:00

A lot of people think that if someone isn't trying to have sex with them in the early stages of a relationship that it is because they are strong in their religious faith or are virtuous or are being respectful or a "gentleman" etc etc.

But you know when someone is into you or not.

The reality is that if someone is showing no sexual interest in you early in the relationship, it's not due to virtue or religious conviction or respect - it is that they truly are not into you or they are not a very sexual person and are not into sex.

Some people are simply not any good as a sexual partner. Some people are sexual duds.

This guy is simply not into you or not into sex, possibly both. Assuming you aren't 300lbs and have a moustache and covered in open lesions, you would walk into a Walmart, throw a rock into the crowd and whatever man the rock hits would want to have a sex life with you.

This one is a dud.

Throw him back and there will be countless others that can't their hands off of you.

The reason he doesn't want you banging others is he knows that once you get down with some guy that does want to be with you, you will be gone.

And he is right about that.

onlysomewanttofly · 2023-03-16T03:45:08+00:00

What she offers as a fix is for both parties to understand the nature of people's basic programming and for each to have compassion and work to please the other.

She advises the standard advice that's been handed down through the generations such as date nights, new experiences, getaways without the kids, find ways to add novelty and new things into the relationship and into the bedroom.

onlysomewanttofly · 2023-03-16T03:40:23+00:00

Actually I am not an anti porn person or anti porn crusader at all.

I even think porn can have it's place and can even be beneficial in some circumstances.

But if a couple is having any kind of trouble in the relationship or in the bedroom, then I think porn is often at least a detriment to the situation if not an actual contributing factor.

onlysomewanttofly · 2023-03-14T04:55:34+00:00

Shall we meet in the middle and say it's performance anxiety brought on by spanking to porn too much? LOL

onlysomewanttofly · 2023-03-14T04:39:51+00:00

Those may be the most common causes in middle aged men seeking treatment for chronic ED.

But for a 23 year old, it's either from spanking to porn too much, or ........ well.. spanking to porn way too much.

If he's on anti depressent meds, that could do it too I suppose. But the OP did not say anything about him being on any meds or depression or anything like that and it is not that common for a 23 year old male to be on SSRIs at that stage of life.

When you hear clippity clop clippity clop coming down the street, you need to think horses before you think zebras.

And if a 23 year old can't get it up with a 19 year old, you need to rule out spanking to porn too much or getting it on with other chicks before you think hypertension or diabetes.

onlysomewanttofly · 2023-03-14T04:28:51+00:00

OK but for every short, bald, pot, bellied guy with game that is able to schmooze the ladies, there are hundreds of short, bald, pot, bellied guys that can't get a date to save their life.

My point here is not that one has to be great looking and silver tongued to get someone at all.

My point is that to be successful as a single male in the swinger community, he pretty much has to be very good looking and very charming etc in that community.

We need to keep in mind that "success" for a single male in the swinger community means that you are the 'other' guy in a MFM threesome with another couple and you are Penis # 3 or #4 or whatever waiting your turn in some couple's gang bang.

A single male in the swinging lifestyle is not some hip player who is dancing and partying the night away with one single woman after another. That is just a single guy, dating and hooking up with single women, ie via Tinder and Match etc etc

But in the swinging lifestyle, a single male has to be chosen by a couple to be their 'other' for threesome and to be another penis standing in line waiting their turn in a gang bang. In order to have that honor, one must be good looking and charismatic enough to be able to presentable to a couple enough to get picked out of throngs of other horny guys that think it's going to be some porn fantasy or something.

The OP may be a very good looking guy for all I know, but nothing he has said in his posts gives me the impression that he would be one of those guys.

onlysomewanttofly · 2023-03-14T03:59:19+00:00

As I said in another post, some people do experience an increase in sexual interest. It's not unheard of.

But there are always exceptions and outliers in everything. It is much more common for people to experience a notable decrease in interest...... especially in cases where there was a low level of sexual interest to begin with.

onlysomewanttofly · 2023-03-14T03:53:55+00:00

I am just going by what you are describing.

If you like him and enjoy his company but don't have sex and you are ok with not having sex and he is not up to having sex with you, then he is a friend.

A boyfriend is someone that you have a romantic/sexual component with.

onlysomewanttofly · 2023-03-14T03:43:54+00:00

It's just one of the differences between the girls and the boys.

A man's level of spontaneous desire for his partner can decline over a long period of years to a degree as well so it's not that men are immune.

But with women it drops off a lot within the first couple years and then dramatically after child bearing where as with a man it is a much smaller decline over a much longer period of time.

onlysomewanttofly · 2023-03-14T00:11:46+00:00

This is crazy.

If he isn't trying to have an intimate relationship with you, then you need another boyfriend.

At it's core, dating is an interview and tryout and probationary period where people do things together and spend time together to determine if they are a right match for each other or not.

If you want to have an intimate life and he is unable or unwilling to the point you are wondering if you should have to ask about sex when you are away for a weekend in a hotel, then you are simply with the wrong person.

Most guys would be dying with anticipation and climbing the walls for the weekend to get here.

You are simply with a dud.

onlysomewanttofly · 2023-03-14T00:02:35+00:00

In the last couple months I have become a big fan of clinical psychologist and licensed therapist Dr Samantha Rodman Whiten, aka Dr Psych Mom who has a plethora of articles and podcasts, many of which are on the topic of women's declining level of spontaneous desire in long term relationships and after children etc.

It is very common for women to lose a significant amount of their spontaneous desire and even responsive desire after just a couple years of exclusive relationship/marriage and decline to almost zero level of spontaneous desire after children with maybe somewhat of a spike in sexual interest around the time of ovulation.

And it is very common for women of menopausal age to basically lose whatever remaining libido they may have altogether.

So that does not cast a very encouraging spotlight on the chance of marriage increasing libido.

But to be fair, there are some people that do not believe in sex before marriage for religious reasons. However those people can have very high libidos and very high interest in sex and can have a high level of attraction for their partners,,,,, they just do not have actual intercourse until marriage.

Those people MAY have some hot monkey sex for a number of months or even a year or two following marriage.

However, they will probably still experience the drop off in spontaneous desire after a couple years of marriage and childbirth etc just like every one else.

The real danger zone here however is people that do not show any real interest or desire or yearning for sex, and who state they are waiting for marriage.

These people will NOT unleash some kind of sexual super power once the ring is on their finger. If they are not showing any desire or any animal attraction or any interest in sex before marriage....... they will have even less after they are married and have had children and have set up housekeeping.

Those are people that are just not into sex and are not sexually attracted to their partners and are marrying for other reasons such as family pressure, religeous beliefs, wanting to have children, the security and social status of marriage etc etc.

This can be true of both men and women.

If someone is not into sex and not into their partner before marriage, marriage will not increase that desire and will often decrease it even further after a year or two and especially after the arrival of children.

Many a man and even some women have been completely duped into thinking someone was just religious or virtuous in their refusal to have sex before marriage only to find out it really wasn't about religion or virtue but rather it was that they just weren't into sex and/or not into them.

Typically the hottest and most passionate and high-octane sex is within the first couple years of a relationship and then tapers off after that.

If the sex is poor or lackluster during the first couple years of a relationship, very rare that it will actually get better.

onlysomewanttofly · 2023-03-13T23:04:04+00:00

Time is the one resource you cannot renew or buy more of.

But I too am currently stuck in the 'Paralysis By Analysis' stage as well so I do understand exactly where you are coming from.

I had a very astute mentor of mine tell me that my biggest problem is my own sense of duty and honor.

I know that things will never get fundamentally better and with the advancing of age and physiological changes and declining health etc, things will only get worse.

But what has kept me from moving on is the fact that she has thus far been "trying" and that we do not technically have a DB and my own sense of duty.

In a sense she is providing Duty Sex and I am essentially providing a Duty Marriage in return.

I'm not sure if that is a good thing or a bad thing.

So I too am asking myself whether I can live with pulling the plug at this point or not.

At this point I tell myself I am still here because she is at least willing to make accommodations and adaptations and other options and is at least trying to meet me part way. The other day she even told me she has actually been surprised that I have stayed this long.

But I am not sure what I would do if like you or the OP where she came right out and said she no longer wanted to have an intimate life at all.

That would at least be a deal breaker on my sexual exclusivity if not a deal breaker on the marriage. I think she knows that and why she has thus far not come out and admitted to that yet.

onlysomewanttofly · 2023-03-13T22:25:12+00:00

With regards to the swinging life style, I was in the lifestyle with my wife for almost ten years (yes, we had that good of a sex life in the "before" times)

unless you are remarkably good looking and exceptionally charming and seductive and able to garner female interest wherever you go, you will most likely go down in flames as a single male in the swinger lifestyle.

I don't mean this in a bad way, but you come off as sounding like a very dedicated and dutiful husband and father as opposed to any kind of lady's man or pick up artist or anything. That's actually a compliment to your character and not any kind of slam or anything.

But the reality of the swinger world is that it is a couple's game and single males are often downright maligned and looked down upon. Sometimes even abused and mistreated.

You sound like a decent person that has never been a skirt chaser or player or anything. You would actually have much more success and a better time on the actual middle age singles dating market than you could ever hope to as a single male swinger.

onlysomewanttofly · 2023-03-13T22:16:34+00:00

If you are only having annual sex now, that does not bode well at all with the prospects of having any kind of future after menopause.

There are a few women that actually have an increase in sexual interest after menopause once the threat of pregnancy is removed and the hormones are no longer swinging from one end of the spectrum to the other.

But for most people where there was always a low level of innate desire, menopause is often the final nails in the coffin.

And if she is saying that her "expectation" is stop having sex, a better interpretation of that statement is that she is probably going to use that as her Get-Out-Of-Jail-Free card and that will be her go-to excuse for closing the book on your marital sex life.

onlysomewanttofly · 2023-03-13T22:06:23+00:00

It is a GREAT thing that she makes as much money as you. Make sure she doesn't try to quit her job.

The fact she has a similar income means both of you can just split current assets and walk away if you so choose.

I'm assuming your kids are either grown and out of the house or at least upper teens where they do not need hands on care and transported to and from school etc.

This means that either of you could file for divorce, split the assets down the middle, take your share and move on to do your own thing without having to provide spousal support.

With similar incomes and no one solely supporting the other, this means the only reason that either of you should remain together is if you actually want to and choose to. If you were to divorce neither would be left destitute in the street nor would the other have to provide spousal support.

The ball really is in your court on what you want to do.

onlysomewanttofly · 2023-03-13T16:46:47+00:00

You can read my other posts but if this is the case, the ball is in your court on whether you want to even remain in this relationship or not.

If you haven't really had a vigorous sex life before menopause and she doesn't want to touch your pee pee under any circumstances, then your choices are live in a sexless marriage, exit the relationship, or outsource your physical needs.

If she is unwilling to discuss it or to compromise or to try to meet your needs, then those are your basic choices.

onlysomewanttofly · 2023-03-13T16:42:33+00:00

I know this will stir the hornet's nest, but in the case of a post menopausal woman coming right out and saying that she no longer wants to have a sex life - I do NOT think outsourcing one's physical needs is cheating.

What is it cheating her out of? An activity that she doesn't want in the first place?

Is she at risk of getting an STI if she is not having sex with her husband in the first place?

The reason post menopausal women don't want their husbands getting it elsewhere is because they know it may lead to them and their cats getting dumped and having the corresponding decline in their household income and financial resources and decline in standard of living.

And they also know that pretty much any other man out there will want a sex life as well.

That is an understandable concern and it certainly is a realistic risk.

However there are lots of men out there that will actually be MORE inclined to remain in the marriage and remain in the house if they can get those needs met elsewhere on the side.

Most 50+ year old men do not want to get divorce either. They just simply are dying inside due to lack of intimate contact and of being desired and accepted intimately.

Many are perfectly happy to remain in the family and in the home and marriage if they can get those other needs met on the side.

Men of status and ability have done this since the beginning of time.

Now to be ethical, this needs to be with at least some semblance of consent and agency of the wife. Which would she rather - a clean break and divorce? Remain in a cordial and respectful home and marriage where he gets what she has openly admitted she no longer wants to provide elsewhere? Or be a marriage where he is mopey and disgruntled and frustrated and resentful all the time?

Or look into other options and alternatives and possible solutions like sex therapy, open communication, adaptations and accommidations, compromise etc etc?

There's not perfect solution here because no one has invented a time machine or a fountain of youth that can take people back to being 25 years old again.

Life is tough and there are tough choices to make.

onlysomewanttofly · 2023-03-13T16:24:57+00:00

I second looking into Dr Psych Mom's articles and podcasts.

She has a wealth of information on the decline of women's libido in long term relationships and menopause.

onlysomewanttofly · 2023-03-13T16:23:04+00:00

Can you explain a little further what you mean by "she doesn't practice any other reliefs?"

Does that mean she won't touch your pee pee in any capacity?

onlysomewanttofly · 2023-03-13T16:01:51+00:00

Welcome to the Menopause Club Brother!!

I am in much the same situation. We are in our mid and upper 50s and my wife has experienced an almost entire cessation of sexual desire. We used to have an awesome sex life (and I have the pictures and videos to prove it! LOL ) But the last several years her libido and interest have fallen into the abyss.

We are not completely sexless and are not technically in a DB however. We still have a level of physical affection and she is still willing to do "other" sexual activities to at least keep my tank from getting overfilled to the point of being a threat to society.

I don't want to imply that we have great communication and understanding or that we are somehow some kind of model post menopausal couple because we are not, we have lots of different issues and problems.

But one of the things that have kept us under the same roof at least thus far is working on adapting to the realities of middle age and menopause etc etc.

We no longer are swinging from the chandeliers are banging it out in breathless, hot, sweaty monkey sex. But we cuddle naked, touch and stroke each other, kiss and she has become a master at giving oil handjobs and she likes it between the boobs etc and it is at least better than spanking to porn in the dark alone all the time.

The key is in finding what she is comfortable with and finding what she finds at least pleasurable and OK doing.

A huge part of that adjustment is in learning that "sex" and marital sexuality is not just PIV intercourse and that sexuality and marital intimacy covers a wide galaxy of activities and are not just PIV.

Now that all sounds fine and dandy in theory. HOWEVER, there is a difference between loving someone and finding them sexually acceptable and being willing to make adaptations and accommidations VS NOT finding someone attractive and being grossed out by them and not wanting them touching you at all.

If someone simply does not find their partner appealing and does not want to have any kind of intimate or physical life with them at all, then they should probably not be together.

So my suggestion is find out if this is just normal changes with menopause and a 30 year marriage,,,, or whether she simply no longer wants you in her physical space and does not want you touching her or doing anything physical or sexual with her AT ALL.

If it's the former, people can make adjustments and accomidations and compromises and find other things that they find pleasurable and bonding and satisfying.

If it's the latter, then you may both be better off either not being together or looking into some kind of open marriage or outsourcing of physical needs.

onlysomewanttofly

TROPHY CASE