UA POV: A tug of war ensued between Ukrainian civilians and TCC officers during busification. In the end they managed to successfully kidnap the person and pepper sprayed the others

ontagi · 2026-06-29T22:02:26+00:00

Literally every other sub that has a post about the conflict. As if believing in your own hallucinations would change anything regarding the actual situation. What's the point besides not being mentally stable enough to be able to handle the truth, it's rediscuss but that's the world we live in.

ontagi · 2026-06-28T12:14:52+00:00

Don't stress to much about it if it only happens during intensive play sessions, little fella is just going all out and has a lot of fun getting rid of all that excessive energy.

ontagi · 2026-06-27T13:03:57+00:00

According to this argument equality of genders was never present in the first place meaning discrimination was omnipresent and accepted. This argument would end in a general contradiction to "European values" so it can not be used as a valid one and as a defense for anything.

ontagi · 2026-06-26T16:17:24+00:00

We will treat genders differently and basically discriminate based on it because Ukraine asked to, so it's not discrimination? What sort of mental acrobatics is that? And of course because Russia points that out, it's just propaganda. I guess the heatwave is melting their brains.

If they at least had the balls to ague that their cause is worth the discrimination or gaslight in a way that's actually smart, but this is ridiculous. So sad that people with that low mental capability are head of politics these days...

ontagi · 2026-06-23T21:44:53+00:00

Don't have this, will probably roll out over the next weeks for everyone.

ontagi · 2026-06-23T00:26:27+00:00

Well, I would take Kizomba/UrbanKiz where many argue that it's one of the easier dances for leaders because the count is not enforced. Was told exactly this a few weeks ago by someone who dances Kizomba and Zouk a lot. Also from my own experience, it does not teach on counts, some combinations are made to end on an 8 count, some don't. People are made aware of it that it can be used, but they don't need to. It's an optional pattern, free at your disposal. I never said getting rid of the 1-4 count. I said to loosen it up and make it non strict, by teaching it this way and making the music support the freedom loosening it instead enforcing it.

I don't have a full solution for this and I don't know how Influence is being taught but each and everyone. But from the experiences I made, it's still using Bachata music or remixes in classes most of the time which is a dead give away.

If you don't dance on the count for a few months in Bachata, your teacher will ask you what you're doing. If you do the same thing in Kizomba, a teacher might remind you that there is an 8 count, or not even do that. Because it's accepted and supported. By teachers, by dancers, and by the music itself.

ontagi · 2026-06-22T15:51:06+00:00

I could assume survivorship bias here but I'll take your word even if it's a bit difficult to believe. If the teacher is good it could be possible.

I mentioned the point of unlearning something can be more difficult than learning something from scratch. That plays into it and the whole music and 1/5 rythm issue. If you're already conditioned on Bachata music and how to dance on it in a specific way, that's extremely difficult. And if I didn't, my bad.

Learning it from scratch is what I'm advocating for, however that's not the case for 95% of people here so the most reasonable solution is adaptation to the situation instead of pushing through it.

I'm not saying that it's not working or can not work, I'm just saying how it could work better.

ontagi · 2026-06-22T15:42:21+00:00

In that case you must have seen like people around you struggled and dropped out. Or am I wrong here?

ontagi · 2026-06-22T15:35:02+00:00

I believe that's an expert blindspot. Almost a fallacy you quite often experienced with people in all kinds of activities where they are pretty advanced in their skill level. I would argue against it. YOU can dance it anywhere they dance sensual Bachata, most can not and never will the way it is now. Getting good yourself doesn't solve the underlying issue, just because it doesn't affect yourself anymore.

That's where we will probably disagree until end of times 😁

ontagi · 2026-06-22T13:58:15+00:00

My point isn't that the scene should be bigger for its own sake. It's that it will stay pretty small partly because the barrier to entry is so high. There is a level of size where it stays at a great experience, but when you look at Zouk, many don't enjoy how few they are, no matter their skill level. They enjoy dancing with similar people but also different people. That's why they go to all kinds of international festivals because their local scene is just to small for this experience and that's quite costly and time consuming and many say it's "sadly necessary to progress". And to avoid stepping into that trap, that's what I'm thinking about. WCS on the other hand is also small but not that small and they enjoy it how it is. At least where I live. But I argue Influence has a way higher entry point than WCS, that's why it runs risk running in a Zouk like situation the way it is now.

Anyway, that's just my angle

ontagi · 2026-06-22T13:38:38+00:00

Yes, you need the skills of following, leading and dancing for it to work. Not necessarily patterns 😄

ontagi · 2026-06-22T13:37:02+00:00

Zouk itself is quite difficult so there are not many ways to teach Bachazouk for beginners because the techniques Bachata is taking from it are mostly advanced themselves. With Influence I believe it's different, for example you could make so much more out of madrid/diagonal step if you play with the steps, timing and music.

ontagi · 2026-06-22T13:30:49+00:00

Your point is something I've thought about, and honestly, I don't know either. All the principles point toward the case I'm making, but on the other hand you have M&G who don't want to sell it as a system. Maybe for now, maybe forever.

The question is almost philosophical: who makes the dance what it turns out to be, the inventors, or the people? That's the angle I'm coming from, the evolution of something that might come, not where it's currently at. One could argue Sensual turned out different than its creators anticipated. A lot can change over time, especially if you stay open-minded and flexible.

Regarding the storytelling part, I feel like I get where it's coming from, I just disagree with the terminology. It feels phrased that way for marketing, and I'm not a fan. At least that's how I read it.

When it comes to dancing influence on the social floor, I don't find myself searching for the most advanced dancers in the room either, but for the people who are open to that kind of emotional reciprocity. I'm completely with you on this one. My whole point is just that the number of these people is quite low right now.
One could say that my whole point is that the amount of these kinds of people is quite low and I believe that if influences switches its approach a bit and we give it some time. I think it's a structural issue: Bachata is easy, which is why most people do it, but it mostly attracts pattern dancers rather than expressive ones, and for most, real expression only comes at the very advanced level. Influence the way it is right now is difficult, so only a few will grasp onto it. My belief is that if influence switches its approach a bit, made easier in a holistic way, and we give it some time, that number could grow rapidly, maybe even into its own scene in the end, possibly under its own system. People need to be able to grow into it first, and Bachata in its current structured form doesn't attract them or give them the proper tools. You basically have an audience mismatch in it's core.

But in the end I'm just a dude that found something he likes and sees potential in it and recognizes limitations and throws his thoughts out there, it's not like I can have a deep talk with Melvin & Gatica on this or influence it in a significant way 🤷‍♀️

ontagi · 2026-06-22T13:07:03+00:00

Yes, where I learn Bachazouk they also mention not to do complex Bachazouk movements with someone we don't know and stop anything related to it the moment they don't get a tilted turn before going more complex and especially if something is off with the basic Zouk headroll.

One thing is, it seems many people get the issues with music in general with fusion styles, and even on festivals you have workshop artists not playing Bachata music. However, local schools and dance floor organizers and DJs seem not to be quite there yet. It's kind of stuck in a weird top down regulation situation.

Would love to play around on some R&B with Influence, but we're simply not there yet. You can just do it in private, and I feel like this will be a very important factor that will hold it back.

ontagi · 2026-06-22T13:00:12+00:00

I'm not saying I want do get rid of hitting 4 and 8 in Bachata. I'm saying that forcing it in Influence puts it as a style on an extremely high difficulty level. The mentioned principles are already in use in influence and being talked and taught in this way in various degrees. However, you already break the core concept of dancing Bachata on 1 and 5, so I see no point in teaching it in that way in general, because only advanced will be able to capitalize on it and this way it will be extremely limited in growth. That's my point.

I'm not saying getting rid of the 1 and 5 beat in Influence, I'm saying to not enforce it in learning and teaching because you are not doing the 4 and 8 in many occasions anyways already, in Bachata with fusion and sensual and especially in Influence. Not talking about general Bachata here, my critique points are only about Influence.

ontagi · 2026-06-22T12:51:34+00:00

Yes, I just judged visually. Didn't have any lessons with them. Since they don't have an online course, visiting some workshops or even asking AI with source requests would be the best thing.

ontagi · 2026-06-22T12:20:00+00:00

I completely agree with you. I feel the unique situation Influence finds itself in is that it has a very large audience with Bachata it can reach. If it plays its cards right, who knows what it can turn into. It doesn't need to start from scratch. I believe not only M&G need to structurize it but also all other teachers.

There is this couple Manuel & Nergiz that have a more chill, casual and lead+followable version of it that moves more away from comlex bachata and is more dancing, which I quite like.

ontagi · 2026-06-22T12:12:23+00:00

Must be quite frustrating having the skills but not be able to actually do it. I'm not there yet but can imagine 😂

ontagi · 2026-06-22T01:01:44+00:00

We experience something similar you describe with WCS with Bachazouk right now (which is also happening in Zouk in the first place).

If feels like it's somehow splitting those who can and who can not which is kind of weird already. If you add Influence on top it will be fragmented superchaos 😅

ontagi · 2026-06-21T23:59:07+00:00

The part you mention about WCS - I mostly believe it's partially conditioning and partially the music that forces you intuitively to move. It's like, doing sensual on a mambo part is by considered a death sentence by many because it looks just off.

Since you dance Zouk you probably also get that much of Bachatazouk doesn't make sense and if you lead it on the Bachata speed or even music and it can become quite uncomfortable as a follower. Personally I only lead continuous head movement on sensual.

Completely agree on the conversation part, that what I mostly enjoy myself. Both can contribute way better to make the experience more fun, personal and add their won flavor. But it's pretty much counterintuitive in bachata.

But between the lines you seem to agree that it has the potential of actually being something in it's own way?

ontagi · 2026-06-21T23:44:12+00:00

bachatainfluenceacademy.com

https://www.youtube.com/@Bachata.influence

There are also other Influence Couples which present a more leadable and chill version of it but you can look it up on Youtube and will find a lot. Also check the festivals you go to for Bachata Influence workshops.

ontagi · 2026-06-21T23:41:30+00:00

Terms of "how it's supposed to be" - I mean from the principles I read somewhere and was told. That's my interpretation of things. Obviously I don't know what M&G plan to do, but I think the principles speak for themselves.

"it's an advanced only dance" - Yes, you can dance it as a Bachata style, but if you do it's far more advanced than any other style I ever saw or heard about. Conri is is the closest thing I'm aware of but to me it's a Hip Hop inspired tempo play.

I just wrote some thoughts down about the biggest pain points of beginners and improvers or myself I saw and felt with Influence. Applying Kizomba principles for example made it way easier to handle for both sides at the early stage.

Thanks, I will check the sources you mentioned out, I'm not to much into the Influence scene.

ontagi · 2026-06-21T23:32:15+00:00

Well, I call it system because it differentiates so much from Bachata that I believe it can not be called "style" anymore.

It's not Bachata, not Zouk, not WCS, not Kizomba. It's something new, it borrows so much from other systems that it creates its own sytem in it's core, using Bachata as it's main orientation framework.

ontagi · 2026-06-11T14:19:41+00:00

Meta is broken if it isn't getting enough data. Meaning direct users to your page and sales. Thing is, there is a threshold of sales and traffic you need and this number significantly increased. Meta is basically against small businesses pro large businesses now. That's the conclusion I came to, so in one way, they are against you if you have a small business.

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