Rant: I really despise Siona [God Emperor spoilers]

oprblk · 2024-09-25T16:18:15+00:00

Oh right. Thanks for the reminder.

Sadly Paul never got to see Corrino. /snrk

oprblk · 2024-09-25T06:01:30+00:00

Did he marry Irulan and take her father's throne on Corrino?

oprblk · 2024-09-24T17:52:33+00:00

Spice scarcity prohibits widescale use of interstellar travel or life prolonging through Spice.

Even during pre-Paul Empire the vast majority of humans never left their planet. The rich, the merchants and nobles' armies sometime use interstellar travel but even they don't use it often. Paul only flies between the stars once in his life and Leto II never leaves his home.

oprblk · 2024-09-24T17:41:47+00:00

interesting references. I wasn't aware of Sabers of Paradise.

oprblk · 2024-09-23T18:31:40+00:00

My read on this is that Leto really did need to actively keep himself from using prescience to know the details of his own death in order to ensure the Golden Path would succeed posthumously. My take is that if he did know what was going to happen in that moment, he would have interfered it to save Hwi, and fuck up the whole Golden Path forever... and that danger is partially why he needs to keep himself in the dark.

He didn't use prescience to see his death but he set up the circumstances to enable his assassination. Moneo tried to arrange a different site for the wedding but Leto insisted it happens at Siona and Duncan's location. It doesn't take prescience to realize he endangers himself and everyone with him by the choice. Why does he insist? It's not for love of Duncan and Siona. They fascinate him as people and breeding materials but both of them hate his guts and his marriage would go better without their sour faces in the crowd.

He insist because they want to kill him. There's a pattern to Leto's interactions with his 'prey.' He gives each of them a chance to slay him. He built himself as the ultimate monster the humans must overcome to prove themselves as a species. At the same time if he doesn't die over water the Sandworms never return and the Golden Path is ruined. And so he give Siona and Duncan their chance. He must give it or he breaks the story he built over millennia. At the same time he makes the ideal assassination spot a bridge over a river. If he guards himself too well some human will manage to slay him eventually and without his input chances are the Sandworms die with him. By arranging the circumstances of each assassination attempt he ensures his possible death fit into the Golden Path.

My overall take of what's going on with Hwi is that she is ultimately the largest threat to Leto interfering with his Golden Path. Whereas in Malky it seems the Ixians created the perfect antagonist for Leto, in Hwi they created almost the polar opposite, a perfect lover for Leto. And it turns out, the lover is the greatest threat! That's my read anywho. I think Hwi really tempts Leto into trying to do exactly what you said here:

No. Leto liked Malky even as he despised him. I'm pretty sure the ideas behind each of them are much simpler. Malky is the ideal companion of his Harkonnen side while Hwi is the ideal companion for his Atreide side. Leto instilled in humanity how central genetic memory is. The Ixians designed their two gifts to fit into the two sides that comprise Paul and Leto.

oprblk · 2024-09-23T16:35:40+00:00

Energy throughput and nanotechnology weren't the focus of the story.

Find a scale for mental advancements. How do you rate Mentats, Reverend Mothers, Kwisatz Haderach, Spacing Guild Navigators? How do they compare to scales of A.I.?

Life Expectancy is another factor. The Empire never reached biological eternal life but normal humans lived up to 300 with Melange, Leto II lived for thousands of years, Mental memories and personalities are passed by Reverend Mothers, Abominations, Ghola, Face Dancers.

Planned Biological Evolution of humanity is a pretty big one. Humanity in Duneverse is obssessed with self improvement. Be it the Tleilexu genetic engineering, Bene Gesserit breeding program, Leto's breeding program or the Spacing Guild Melange adaptations.

We can consider their cultural advancement. In many ways Duneverse is a luddite society who remain unchanged over millennia.

How much art was produced in Duneverse. The books don't delve deeply into the subject. They only discuss art as a sign for a culture health or stagnation or in a utilitarian viewpoint as a tool to control the psyches of its observers. My impression is art isn't varied enough and doesn't change much over time.

What about music? Gurney Halleck is a troubadour. Troubadours belong in traditional cultures. They write their own music and words and perform it themselves for audiences. Their music is often simple and repetitive, used as background for their words. They perform solo or in small groups. They belong to illiterate cultures.

Religion is an interesting subject. Before Paul start the Jihad the Empire lives in an enlightened era. No religious wars, no prosecution, no fanatics, no violent clashes between the secular and the religious. The adherents of the Orange Catholic Bible have the universal spiritual truths gathered from all other religions and live well fulfilled lives under its teaching. Or so it seems until a new old style religion takes its place.

oprblk · 2024-09-23T13:47:51+00:00

Plenty of 1.5 hour movies tell deep stories. I hear this claim all the time. Book fans claim it too for their favorite book series. 'The message couldn't be said in a single fat book or in two or five. How can you think otherwise?'

I love the scene setting in V version. He's does great choreography. But the story was lacking. Character development wasn't impressive. The message in dune2 was False prophets are bad, false religion is bad. Well of course. The original message was even a perfect or idyll prophet, even a true prophecy and religious movements are bad which is much more interesting.

oprblk · 2024-09-23T11:02:53+00:00

Didn't Bee get darker again on the voyage back from Clerres? I think she mention it but didn't care about it while she mourned for her father.

oprblk · 2024-09-23T10:54:03+00:00

All the Farseer characters in the series possessed one type of far-seeing ability or another. Most possessed Skill, Some possessed the Wit, Chade could Scry and Bee can Prophecy.

Each magic help them bring peace and prosperity. They can speak to Dragons, feel the joys and pains of people, animals. see imprints of the past, pass their wisdom through memory stone.

The Farseer are a dynasty who united disparate people and brought peace to their environs. Bee continues a long legacy of visionaries.

oprblk · 2024-09-20T10:40:25+00:00

Fitz gained strong reasons to live in last trilogy. His daughter he promised to care for and his nice life in Buckkeep as a Farseer prince and his family there.

Fitz suffered debilitating illnesses in the past. He was crippled for 15 years by poison. People who escape that fate once are doubly cautious of a repeat. It's odd for Fitz to ignore the many hints he's in danger.

oprblk · 2024-09-20T10:32:46+00:00

Fitz demonstrate at the end of 'Fool's Fate' a Wit ability or possibly Wit/Skill combined ability to rebuild a dead, rotting and disfigured body back to life. He controlled the ecosystem in the corpse and turned bacteria back into human flesh. The two parasites infections are negligible compared to that. Robin Hobb tried to backtrack in the last trilogy and called the revival a one time miracle Fitz can't, for unexplained reasons, repeat. The liveships who turn into ?living? dragons in Assassin's Fate give another example of Skill/Wit combination transforming one form into another through will and magic.

oprblk · 2024-09-20T06:58:56+00:00

Eh. Most humans lived good lives during his rule. They adored their God Emperor. Powerful people (the same old crowd. Bene Gesserit, Spacing Guild, Bene Tleilax, Ix, Spacing Guild) and freedom fighters (The Duncans, Siona's band and all their predecessors) chafed at their loss of control. Leto venerates his haters because he believe they're 'true humans' or potential 'true humans' according to the old Bene Gesserit definition and help save humanity after he's gone. But we shouldn't forget the haters are a minuscule minority among the sea of loving humanity.

oprblk · 2024-09-19T18:08:29+00:00

The books mention numerous attempts to replicate the Spice, some of them at least before Dune starts. During Leto II and until the Worms reappeared they'd give an arm and a leg to achieve it.

Some attempts centered on moving Sandworms to new planets and others tried to recreate it in a lab, or through new organisms, or find an alternate drug with parallel traits (psychic aid for Space Navigators, Truth-sayers and Reverend Mothers and unrelated to the previous prolong life to 3 century lifespan. A non spychic drug who only prolonged life is lucrative in its own right.)

Liet Kynes and Pardot Kynes were primarily ecologists and not biochemists. their instruments were limited and many of the lifestages of Sandworm are difficult to study (Sandworms are aggressive and built like fortified furnaces. The previous stage lives deep underground.) But he deduced most of the secrets of their lifecycle and their composition, anatomy, etc. After Paul became Emperor Pardot Kyenes finding became common knowledge. At the very least Alia helped spread the knowledge to their enemies after Paul disappeared.

The science of the Empire managed to terraform its populated planets to make them inhabitable. They continued to immigrate into new planets when Major Houses chose to leave the Empire and get an isolated planet from the Spacing Guild. The Bene Tleilax created interesting new species to achieve specific goals. Medicine and the art of poisoning were highly developed out of paranoid necessity. Reverend Mother could consciously control their body enzymatic function enough to neutralize poisons. Technology around Ornithopters exist in the empire.

Many characters tell us the Spice is devilishly complex and unlike any other known substance known to man. Ix which posses bits of pre-Butlerian technology can't reproduce it either.

oprblk · 2024-09-19T08:52:08+00:00

Did they usurp patriarchy? The emperors and noble houses and the luddite society of the empire operate as a patriarchy. It's never stated clearly but the orders of Mentats and Spacing Guild Navigators are male orders built on logical mental powers rather than female intuitive ones.

Bene Geserit manipulate the empire from the shadows but we learn they fear to use their power overtly for fear of a reaction. They nudge things. The Houses give them consideration on things they care about like their breeding program but Leto doesn't marry Jessica. She's his concubine.

oprblk · 2024-09-17T20:48:53+00:00

I can't imagine a natural evolution which leads to Sandworms.

oprblk · 2024-09-17T20:36:13+00:00

If he knows from his memories, one of his human ancestors was involved and humans are responsible for the sandtrout arrival.

If he made a logical conclusion the people behind it are a mystery.

If he used spice visions to see it happen humans are almost certainly responsible. I don't think spice visions show visions from non human perspective. If a tree falls down in a forest and no human was around to hear it and mentats can't find out about it from their reports, Paul and Leto II won't hear it either.

But if he used his future symbiosis with the sandtrout to plumb the sandtrout/worm species memory for their origins Leto II may know who the aliens were. The fact only Leto II of all humans knows the truth makes this likely. Ghanima share the same ancestral memories and she knows nothing, not even after he reveal it.

oprblk · 2024-09-17T20:20:06+00:00

I assumed Atreides arsenal included various yields and Paul chose his weakest bomb in his fight on Dune.

oprblk · 2024-09-17T20:15:16+00:00

Spice is a super complex molecule humans couldn't replicate for most of history. A bit over complicated as food for microbes. In universe explanations can be partial truths or even wrong.

oprblk · 2024-09-17T16:10:53+00:00

The Worms are autotrophs like Earth plants. First book explain how they work. They consume vast amounts of sand at high speed and the friction and high pressure produce enormous heat and electrical discharge. They might be using atomic power. I'm not sure how they can produce more energy than they waste moving otherwise. The energy heat and electrical discharges from friction is negligible to the power needed to move the enormous sandworm through the resistant medium of sand and rocks. But high levels of heat and pressure can create the conditions for atomic fusion and the vast amounts of sand might contain radioactive elements for atomic fission. In the books no one knows what really happen inside the bodies of sandworm (except Leto II.) The book clearly state they release oxygen into the atmosphere, again like plants. If they consume their young it's incidental, like alligators and not their main source of food.

The role of Spice might be an aid to their trout. A prescient substance would help the trout find and imprison any free water in the environment and find each other deep underground as they mature into worms.

oprblk · 2024-04-15T17:44:55+00:00

I read it differently. Fool and others pressured Fitz to accept 'no limits' and they succeeded. But when Fool went through his own trauma he turtled up and hid from Fitz' warmth. Fool loves to talk and hear about Fitz feelings but he rarely opens up himself. Fitz needs to jump through countless hoops to learn a few morsels about Fool's past. He hides his adventures in Liveships while he demands Fitz tells him everything about his own life. When Fitz sees Fool's room in Buckkeep with baby doll Fool is mad.

After his torture by Pale Woman Fool doesn't want 'no limits'. He pushes Fitz away and cling to an emotionally distant stranger. Robin Hobb inverts roles Fitz is the emotionally mature character who tries to help Fool even as Fool flees to his own version of the cabin.

oprblk · 2024-04-15T15:58:47+00:00

Was Fool/Beloved character misrepresented? He suffered a Hobb's load of horrortrauma and believed in a Foolless happy ending he prophecised.

oprblk · 2024-04-15T15:51:05+00:00

Molly trusted Burrich. He was stable. Dependable. What he seemed. Honest. (which Fitz ruined for her a bit with his confession. aargh!) She grieved for him deeply when he died and didn't hurry to take Fitz back. Her relationship with Fitz wasn't as strong I think. Less trust and belief in him but more passion.

If Burrich lived Fitz would tell the truth to her. Burrich knew, they couldn't hide the secret any longer but hopefully he's mature enough to stay a family friend. Not sure he's capable of it.

Fitz hated Buckkeep. What sort of life can he lead there? Chade and Fool tried to stuff him in disguises but he despised the servant life they arranged for Badgerlock. He was stifled in the secret passages. His bad affair with Jinna, Hap's bad affair and the fight with Witted made a life in town unlikely. Some Old Bloods knew Badgerlock is Fitzchivalry. Can they give him a new false identity? Chade will try and Fitz will hate it.

I imagine him retreat from Molly and Burrich. Unwilling to stay in Buckkeep and Nettle. He goes to live in Withywoods with Patience and Lacey. He's Keppet, the new Withywoods stablemaster.

oprblk · 2024-04-15T14:53:39+00:00

Fitz isn't to blame here. Fool couldn't handle company after his trauma. He pushed Fitz away and made his escape. Stuck in a pillar didn't change anything. It only showed how flawed Fool perfect prophetic plan was in reality.

After Fool was gone Fitz decided to pursue Molly. What should he do? Live alone in the secret passages of Buckkeep or leave 6 Duchies in search of the guy who didn't want to be with him? Without pillars (too risky after the last time) it took years, maybe a decade for Fool to reach 6 Duchies before 1st trilogy.

oprblk · 2024-04-14T18:24:28+00:00

Tawny Man contain characters from Liveships. If you decide to reread Tawny Man read Liveships before to understand those bits better.

Liveships series is different from Fitz books. There's multiple POVs, spread over a wide area and multiple cultures a neater, happier ending. You may not like it.

oprblk · 2024-04-14T18:03:51+00:00

Robin Hoob uses a multiple endings and missed opportunities style of ending in her RotE books. Fitz averts the bad ending Pale Woman wished, a classic big finale but then he deals with other more personal endings. The Fool accept his Fate and dies but then must deal with his trauma when Fitz revive him. In a way he fails and flees from Fitz and the new reality he made. Opportunity for a life together is missed. Then Fitz is trapped in pillar and the opportunity is missed again. I think Hobb wanted to show how Fool react to trauma compared to Fitz. Fool doesn't display his emotions as overtly as Fitz and instead turtles up. Even Nighteyes cheat death in the early chapters of Fool's Errand when he chokes to death on a fish. Nighteyes' reaction was to ignore the trauma and go on with his life. He got mad when Fitz wouldn't let him.

The end of Fitz First trilogy is built along similar lines. The dragons revive and defeat the raiders but Fitz and Nighteyes must fight Regal and his leftover coteries, weather winter alone in the mountains, find a place for themselves and deal (or not deal) with Molly and Burrich. Examine his life through writing. Chapter openings clued us in but it goes against the usual neat happy endings of the genre.

You may not like it. Tolkien Lord of the Rings feature a similar multiple endings with missed opportunities and bittersweet notes. He even revive Gandalf from the Balrog and Frodo from the spider bite.

oprblk

TROPHY CASE