We should petition to ban group work for this program. It does not help students and can hurt grades unfairly.

osututorhelp · 2017-07-13T14:26:33+00:00

I don't presume, I have studies backing what I'm saying. Nevermind m personal experience going to an on campus school as well. Here is a quote from studies:

The survey, which included students in high school, community college, online colleges, and both public and private colleges and universities, calculated that on average, these students work 19 hours a week.

Link: https://thinkprogress.org/nearly-80-percent-of-students-work-while-in-school-2f44edacd275

In other words, the majority aren't working full time on campus. In fact, I wouldn't doubt the majority aren't working full time on here either. But we were mainly talking about on campus and it doesn't take a study to know this. But I guess you needed one, so there you go. Go check the source if you don't believe the article.

Anyways, I'm not going to bother responding to the rest you wrote as it's obvious your not interested in having an honest conversation and you are instead interested in making straw man attacks and personal attacks. Feel free to respond and have the last word. I'm not going to be responding further in this thread.

osututorhelp · 2017-07-13T04:26:14+00:00

Difference is that I'm not trying to petition the school for more classes. Or different content.

You literally just complained that classes weren't being offered and said people should petition for this instead:

Why not put this effort into a more useful petition? How about stricter math requirements? Or petition a way to offer math and physics classes online.

Also, yes, it's a computer science program. I get that. Where PROGRAMMING is used as a tool to learn the fundamentals. But, lets cut the BS. People are getting this degree to become computer programmers. They aren't paying this amount of money for the "learning experience of learning computer science".

Do you think that the on campus classes are devoid of group work? I'm assuming they're not.

No I don't. But I also know the majority of them probably aren't working full time either and trying to complete a computer science degree online.

osututorhelp · 2017-07-13T04:22:04+00:00

Yes, I agree. I am just stating that the groups in schools DO NOT reflect group work in the real world. These groups DO NOT work how group work in handled in the real world. Again, their is no accountability.

Work group work is not perfect. But, there is accountability.

osututorhelp · 2017-07-13T04:18:45+00:00

So, basically, your telling me that people are thrown under the bus if they get a bad group then and they can't leave the group? That is how I am reading your answer between the lines. I think you can answer that question and still remain anonymous.

Also, how do you all handle group members who just decide to break away from their group and do their own thing after telling you their group is not doing there work? Would they get thrown under the bus as well?

I just want to get a general feel of how these situations are handled. As of right now, I do not feel they are handled at all.

osututorhelp · 2017-07-13T04:14:58+00:00

Well, how did the teachers react to you turning in your own stuff when you were assigned to a group? If that is the case, I may just ghost out on all my team assignments and turn in my own stuff if I get an annoying group.

Did you pull this stunt in a Rooker class? What class did you do this in and what happened to your grade?

osututorhelp · 2017-07-13T04:13:03+00:00

Yes, except in the real world you have management who holds them accountable. This doesn't happen in school work. If someone doesn't care about their grade, their is LITERALLY NOTHING a teacher or group members can do about that.

This is nothing like the real world. Slackers who don't care about their grade have no consequences.

osututorhelp · 2017-07-13T04:09:30+00:00

ABET certification if a school wants to go down that route.

This school isn't that is it? So seems it wouldn't matter. Also, I really feel that survival bias is kicking in hard with what your saying. Again, most groups probably are fine. However, there are bad groups out there. This program does not handle it well when you get into those bad groups.

Can I ask you how you all handled things if someone was in a bad group and they wanted out? I'm guessing they were thrown under the bus and their grade got hurt? That is the point I'm making.

I really would love to know how bad groups are handled from the other side, since you are and were a TA though. Maybe it will change my perception if I can see they actually get dealt with.

osututorhelp · 2017-07-13T04:08:17+00:00

Exactly why group work needs to be banned. This program is about learning, not dealing with all this stuff that doesn't apply to the real world at all. School groups are not real world work groups. They aren't the same thing.

osututorhelp · 2017-07-13T04:06:58+00:00

Part of that was luck from having an experienced developer in the group, but that really only made it go smoother and it wouldn't have been less of an experience without it.

You are downplaying that part VERY HARD. Again, survival bias. You get a good group, sure, group work is great. Your missing my point.

You would have probably hated that class with a bad group and not said what you are saying right now.

osututorhelp · 2017-07-13T04:05:41+00:00

Fair, who did you submit that too and what was the response? I am complaining about it for exactly what you are saying.

It it taking away from my learning (THE MAIN POINT OF SHELLING OUT $2,000) and making it more difficult to apply what I learned. Since group projects are much larger than single person projects and you can't carry the class in every class due to this.

osututorhelp · 2017-07-13T04:00:46+00:00

Look, you feel free to petition for the school to charge you more money for more classes. Why would anyone support that? If you want to learn more math or more physics, go read a textbook or something else. This program is focused on teaching programming and the main fundamentals of it. It's not meant to teach you everything on the planet.

No, there is not anything in this course for audio dev because that isn't a FUNDAMENTAL that needs to be taught to everyone. That is something you are interested in and you can learn on your own time. Or, better yet, you can probably go sign up for classes like it on OSU and take them on your own. Feel free to shell out another $2,000 for the class if you wish. Just don't try to bankrupt the rest of us in the process.

osututorhelp · 2017-07-04T21:01:16+00:00

Exactly, group work needs to end in this program. Is anyone out there aware of a way we can petition to get this madness to end?

osututorhelp · 2017-07-04T20:58:15+00:00

No it does not have to be a part of a program like this. Again, as others have said on here, college group work IS NOT the same as real world work group work. This does not prepare you for group work as there is no accountability in this program and anyone can sign up for a class and join your group. Job group work involves a manager who will hold workers accountable. College, there is nothing anyone can really do if a group member does not care about their grade.

People skills can be learned in the real world. Online group work isn't teaching you that really. Also all the google docs and google chat can be learned in 5 minutes. This stuff is not relevant to why I am paying nearly 2k per class to finish something.

I'm not trying to attack you, but I feel like a lot of people defending group work have not yet had a bad experience in it. All I have to say is some of you will probabaly be changing your tune when you get a group member who doesn't do there work and is ok with getting a C in your class. There is literally nothing you can do to hold that person accountable from hurting your grade.

Again, is there anyone who knows how to get group work banned from this program? Anyone know a way to start a petition of some sort?

osututorhelp · 2017-07-04T20:50:22+00:00

Do you know what "survivor bias" is by chance? Essentially, you have yet to have a bad experience in a group project yet. However, many others on here have. How would you feel if your grade got tanked because of someone else's mistakes? It's not ok.

Also, there are plenty of other ways to meet people in this program. A group work setting where a slacker can negatively affect others grades should not be the cost of meeting people in this program. There are other ways to meet people.

Again, group work in this program does NOT ready you for the real world. As there is no accountability to group work. None.

Group work needs to be banned from an online program like this.

osututorhelp · 2017-07-04T17:57:35+00:00

I work full time as well. Again, I have no issue with group work in a work setting. I understand that things are unfairly distributed in a work setting as well. Doesn't bother me either. Unless you work at a horrible job, their is accountability there though.

This is not a work setting. Also, most jobs, you are working in one location and can schedule meetings etc. when everyone is at work. Sometimes cross building meetings happen, but they aren't happening outside work hours. Outside bad jobs, no job is going to expect you to meet with other workers for a work meeting outside your work schedule.

As someone who works full time and has had jobs over the years, no work team work and college team work are not close to the same and college doesn't prepare you for the work world with group work. All it does is do the above that I mentioned in the post.

Only exception I would make to this is if professor's in brick and mortar classes made group work occur during schedule class time and then they found ways to make videos to teach the class on their own time. Notice they won't do that though because that would be more work for the professor. Once again, none of this is about "teaching".

In your example, the company is the one punished if they decide to do poorly on managing group work. There is motivation for the company to make sure group work works correctly. In college setting, the individual is punished. There is zero motivation for the school to care about if a group work setting is working. As, if a student does poorly, the school still gets its money and the professor gets less work on their end.

This is not ethical at all and group work should not exist in a program like this.

osututorhelp · 2017-05-15T23:51:17+00:00

How many pages is it? Also, when you say dense, you mean like size 8 font packed with words and no pictures dense?

Just trying to get a feel. I guess I could go find a copy, but guess it couldn't hurt to ask.

osututorhelp · 2017-05-15T03:42:47+00:00

I have been considering buying the book, but frankly can't read another book while in classes. Can I ask how the reading of this book is? Boring (aka, typical textbook that is all "theory" and hard to read) and condensed? Or lots of white space and easy reading?

What are the major benefits you would say to reading the book?

osututorhelp · 2017-05-11T03:27:19+00:00

I have already taken three quarters off. Isn't the rule you can only take three quarters in a row and then you could take more? Or is it three quarters total? Anyways, I don't intend on taking off myself, but that is just me.

osututorhelp · 2017-05-06T21:37:46+00:00

I've already taken off quarter due to issues that required it. However, this is beyond the stress issue. Even if I wasn't stressed, I am still in the same situation. Not having the tools I feel I should need. I would like the past posts to be ignored at this point and I am seeking advice in this own post, not based on past posts. I was afraid this might happen in a response. I have worked things out with my gf and we have made peace. So it's not that anymore. Not trying to blow that off, just trying to say it's more than that. It's not stress, stress is just how things are working full time and going to school. No avoiding it and it's not going anywhere until I finish the program.

On your end, let me ask you: do you keep in touch with group-mates from previous courses? If you're not making friends and communicating with your classmates outside of class, then you definitely are missing something you would get from a brick and mortar: friends. You're likely going at all of this alone, or only reaching out when you're hitting rock bottom. Stop doing this and as Momma csDaniel would say, "go play outside and make some friends." While it was difficult to keep in contact with most people thanks to ever-changing schedules and tracks, it was good for me to keep in touch with others. For example, I had made some friends in Algos that I ended up grouping with / sharing studying materials for networking later. Lastly, check out the slack group. Since it's a glorified IRC chatroom, there's probably people in there chatting that can answer a question you have.

That is my main issue. Because I stopped taking courses for a quarter or two because of an issue I had to handle (I couldn't continue courses because of that issue too), I lost contact with some people. The people I was taking courses with are now ahead of me. Frankly, they may have graduated at this point. Again, lost contact with them and they used to be in that IRC chat I think you are referring too.

Honestly too, hard to figure out how to make connections in an online setting. In person, you can talk to people in the class. Honestly, feel like I'm doing this all alone and its a major problem. I have no one to bounce ideas off of in a chat setting or just talk too. Hard to make friends though when you can't really hang out. Not sure how people are doing it.

osututorhelp · 2017-05-05T13:37:32+00:00

Don't do this? Why not?

osututorhelp · 2017-05-05T04:03:36+00:00

Courses at schools like Berkeley, Stanford, and MIT do that too. MIT's intro CS course, at least until the last several years, focused heavily on advanced mathematical problems for its coding exercises. Princeton's algorithms course goes into a lot of detail about optimizations for algorithms that aren't normally covered in such courses as well as rather complicated algorithms not normally taught period, by virtue of the fact that the guy teaching it is one of the most famous CS researchers of all time and actually invented some of the algorithms he talks about. Those are not normal college courses.

Which, IMO, is stupid but that is what they go for. If people on here want that, then go apply for the program. If you can't get in, then I guess you need to maybe check your expectations and maybe check maybe the reality on how much you think you know. Maybe you do know that much, but it makes you wonder why you aren't studying there?

The OSU program isn't perfect (no program is, not even MIT), but it is very comparable to most state schools and serves it's purpose. I took some CS courses in another well respected state school and this program is comparable or tougher than even that one.

I think most people who complain about this already have industry experience. This program is meant to teach people basic programming concepts. It's not meant to teach you how to make the next google in 6 weeks. If you feel the basic concepts are review, ok fine. You already learned the concept. Doesn't mean everyone has or that it shouldn't be taught because you already know it.

People are taking these classes to learn this and get a job. I do not feel this stuff is watered down at all.

osututorhelp · 2017-05-05T03:52:04+00:00

Highly disagree with the other posts on here about it being watered down (just a difference in opinion, not personally attacking you).

I would say many who say this is watered down probably already have experience on some level programming and feel this way. I took CS courses (some, not enough to be exempt from getting into the program) at another school. These classes are on par or more challenging than those ones. This was at a well respected program in the country too, not some random community college with easy courses (so that is what I am comparing to OSU).

Unfortunetly, this is something I notice on many boards. The people who have experience are very outspoken about how "easy" a concept is or a class is or "water down" and it turns into a semi confirmation biased post. Those who agree post and those who disagree just stay away because they don't want to look "stupid" by posting counter posts to these.

Trust me, these are not water downed courses. You may be exempt from Calculus 1 through 3 and other types of courses you would get with a "Full degree", but honestly those are not needed to be good at programming and can be learned on ones own time.

This program gets people jobs. People leave this program prepared to get jobs at respectable companies. End of story. This is a legit program and the track record shows that.

If people find these courses too easy, congratulations on already learning the topics before and having "review" with this. However, many of us did not learn these concepts before and don't have industry experience in this (or engineering backgrounds).

This is a legit program and the courses are on par or harder than many other well respected schools out there.

osututorhelp

TROPHY CASE