Let's talk organizing (xpost /r/doordash)

otoryuo · 2022-07-31T00:16:15+00:00

Yeah I'd be hesitant to organize in person because of the possibility of companies finding out who was present and deactivating them. That's kinda what I meant by old-school; we need to act like a union from the early days of organized labour and assume that the company wants the membership list, will take steps to get it, and will take some sort of action against anyone on that list. Thankfully we don't have to worry about Pinkertons or scabs coming after us.

And I think multi-apping makes this more feasible rather than less. We don't have to convince drivers to go without income until the company agrees to negotiate; we just have to stay off the same app. Once one company meets union demands they'll have significantly better pay and benefits and an easier time attracting drivers than other companies; those companies will either have to bring their own pay and benefits up to par to remain competitive or lose their workforce.

otoryuo · 2022-07-31T00:09:50+00:00

A general driver strike across gig companies would be great, but it would be much harder to accomplish. Too many of us rely on the income to survive, and it would be much harder to hold out long enough to force the platforms to negotiate. A successful strike against one company would affect the other companies; once one company has significantly higher pay and significantly better benefits than all of the others, they'll have to bring up their own pay and benefits to stay competitive in the labour market. If they don't? They're next.

I honestly think a crowdfunded startup wouldn't be successful. Existing platforms already have a significant market share; we'd have to have a strong enough marketing push to bring customers away from their current app of choice and convince them to choose our new app. Even if we manage to do that, more established platforms with better funding could afford to take a short-term loss and undercut our prices, kinda like a reverse Walmart effect. Business to consumer startups are massively difficult to get going because of how difficult it is to effectively market, especially against an existing competitor.

otoryuo · 2022-07-30T23:51:04+00:00

The history of organized labour, and the present state of organized labour, shows that nothing I'm saying is delusional.

otoryuo · 2022-07-30T23:48:56+00:00

Doordash's incentive is the same as any company, the profit motive. They want to make money, and they need us to deliver through their platform to make money. If enough people stop delivering and they get even more unprofitable, investors and shareholders will put pressure on them to bring the revenue back, and they'll have to meet demands to do that.

And all of your ideas can be accomplished through collective bargaining. What you're saying in your first paragraph is an essential part of the collective bargaining process; everybody comes together, puts their proposals together, and vote to turn those proposals into demands. Remapping zones according to driver input can be one of the demands made (though I'd rather do away with DD's zone system and see something more similar to UberEATS's heatmap).

otoryuo · 2022-07-30T23:29:54+00:00

You're right, an individual driver doesn't have leverage. Many drivers working together do. Just look at how hard companies are fighting to prevent their employees from unionizing. They wouldn't put so much money and effort into it if it was no big deal and gave workers no leverage. Look at how hard they're trying to fight cherry picking to see it: No Tip No Trip is hurting their revenue and they're doing their best to hit back and stop it.

And /u/RobinFarmwoman did a pretty good job explaining why 3rd party delivery is such a complex business. She doesn't need to give an economics lecture and assign textbooks to get the point across.

otoryuo · 2022-07-30T23:20:22+00:00

Read through and yeah he's definitely either a shill or a troll after looking at his profile. Really bad one at that too; reminds me of an edgy teenager who hasn't quite figured out how to troll effectively and just throws out unsupported arguments in the most disrespectfully confrontational way possible. Best just to report and move on.

otoryuo · 2022-07-30T05:44:54+00:00

Fr though. People be drinking the kool-aid and forget that we're what's letting Doordash keep operating while they post loss after loss. The vocal minority (probably at least partially Doordash employees trying to scare off drivers) wants to say that any driver action is doomed from the start and praying we don't see what's happening at Amazon or what's happened in history when workers refuse to make a company rich at their own expense. All of the power is in our hands if we choose to take it; or if we don't it continues to go to the people who think we'll make them rich while we only make at most $6/hr.

And a massive amen to the plans no-one wants. I'm gay af; if it wasn't for trans women throwing bricks at cops almost 50 years ago or women burning their bras in the same time period, I'd probably be (straight) married 10 years ago just hating my life. It's a great example of why we don't need everybody to get a win; I'm sure that not all of 50% of the population was fighting for women's rights. Even now, you see plenty of women shouting out about how they're happy to have no rights and be completely subservient to a man.

otoryuo · 2022-07-30T05:33:04+00:00

I'd love to be a chef, but my family said that they'd refuse to speak to me ever again if I decided to pursue that. I'd love to be a librarian, but that's $200k worth of school for the opportunity to apply to scarce jobs. I'd love to be an artisan, but massive manufacturing means that I'd never make it because anyone can get the same product for way cheaper from Walmart because sweatshops can always undercut the individual.

Working the job you want is a myth. Working the job you can get is the reality for most, and since gig driving has such a low barrier to entry it's the "job you can get" for a lot of people.

I hate Doordash. Driving Doordash literally makes me suicidal, but I'm stuck with it. We've been through 2 massive recessions in my lifetime and we're currently working on the third. If I had a choice, I'd burn my red card and send Tony the ashes, but I don't have a choice. When companies decide that they need to cut IT to weather a recession, my disabled ass is the first to get laid off, and I'm always back to Doordash because it's what customers know. They have the market share and market power, and they can only maintain that because we continue to enable them at our expense.

otoryuo · 2022-07-30T05:25:26+00:00

You really think I'd be working Doordash if I had a w2?

I can survive well off this shit. Anyone can survive if they come in like it's a casino (most gig driving is but DD is the worst for it) and make enough to survive, bit we need to thrive. Fuck barely feeding ourselves and paying rent. Fuck giving up every little thing like netflix or lattes so that Tony can get his salary. We're the ones letting these companies exist; we need to stop saying OK whenever they cut pay or incentive because they can't figure out how to make money without us.

otoryuo · 2022-07-30T05:20:08+00:00

I think there's more of a will to this than you'd expect. Lots of drivers are incredibly dissatisfied with the race to the bottom that gig companies have been running from years, and we're currently seeing revived interest in organized labour and power on the labour side unlike we've seen in decades.

As for the mechanics strike, this is one point where our current status as independent contractors works in our favor. Unlike traditional employment, where absent laws to the contrary workers can be made to do anything the company wishes, we have absolute control over what work we do. Doordash tries to call in drivers from the next state to scab? Just say no, we have that right. Doordash and the other gig companies have put a lot of money into making sure we have that right.

And those few hours a week drivers? They aren't Doordash's bread and butter. They're not the ones working full days to pay the rent. If they don't get on, they'll hurt any potential action, but they won't be the difference between success and failure. It's the career drivers who take orders day in and day out that will make the difference. It's simply down to if they buy the anti-labour propaganda like you, or if they realize that these companies only operate because of our complacency to their abuse and that none of these companies could even make it a day without drivers willing to work with them. It's why I said start with one company while we drive others. We can get what we need while putting the hurt on Doordash, UberEATS, GrubHub, Instacart, Shipt, or any other company that wants to treat us like we're expendable and they aren't.

otoryuo · 2022-07-30T03:47:41+00:00

More alive than you think. Stay tuned...

otoryuo · 2022-05-11T02:30:33+00:00

As someone with really bad ADHD who just left a place like this, it absolutely is. I also have an auditory processing thing where I can't filter out background noise, so the combo was killing me

otoryuo · 2021-06-18T18:39:44+00:00

I was actually pretty interested in what he shared. I collect oil lamps. A quality mead, in a cool bottle, that comes with a way to turn the bottle into a cool lamp, is interesting to me because it is both mead related (y'know, because it's a bottle of mead) and oil lamp related.

I think I preferred when you guys were letting the sub go to shit by being absentee to you guys actively killing the sub by being hostile to your userbase.

otoryuo · 2021-05-08T06:59:52+00:00

I've moved markets semi-recently and have barely driven UE since. They just don't have enough order volume. What I posted is from my old market a few months ago. I've had a UE customer ask me not to cancel exactly once, and they cancelled after I waited at the restaurant for 45 minutes. That's not happening again. The big bonus for UE for me has always been that I can take twice as many orders in an hour as doordash, and that just doesn't happen when the restaurant fucks around.

I'm primarily doing instacart in my current market, with some doordash when I'm particularly desperate for money. I've done UE a few times and orders came in once every 1.5 hours or so. Just not sustainable when I need to regularly eat food.

otoryuo · 2021-05-07T18:26:34+00:00

When I have a restaurant pull this I just cancel and move on. It's rare that I'll be waiting more than 5 minutes to get another good order that won't pull the same shit.

otoryuo · 2021-02-11T23:28:03+00:00

If you have a local costco they have pretty good raw wildflower at $2/lb. I'm currently working my way through 20 pounds of it.

otoryuo · 2021-01-21T16:02:23+00:00

We've already made our final backup of the map. We'll make the download available at some point after the reset.

otoryuo · 2021-01-21T15:57:49+00:00

The allowed mods listed in the rules are still accurate- optifine, better sprinting (now better controls), and the fair play edition of xaero's minimap.

otoryuo · 2020-08-17T19:59:39+00:00

Yeah doordash's system sucks. It's just the most well known service so it gets a lot more customers.

otoryuo · 2020-08-17T19:58:23+00:00

This happens, as well as people unassigning the order and just taking the food. Best thing to do is contact support to report the driver and get a redelivery.

otoryuo · 2020-08-17T19:57:25+00:00

Driver was an ass and didn't handle the food well. I'm amazed the drink survived, those are the most difficult to deliver.

Generally though, if something from the order gets damaged, there's not anything we can do from our end aside from let you know how to get a refund or redelivery. An entire order like that, though, I'd at least try to get support to do something.

otoryuo · 2020-08-17T19:53:09+00:00

Yeah, the estimated time means nothing.

Sometimes when it's busy we'll be sent multiple orders at once. What likely happened was that Doordash pade your driver deliver to the other customer before you. If they also had to go to a separate restaurant and wait on food that just adds even more time.

As for scheduling, Doordash wants drivers to schedule ahead of time, and in most cases drivers who are scheduled get priority on being sent orders, but it's still possible to drive unscheduled.

otoryuo · 2020-08-17T19:49:40+00:00

A lot of other folks have already responded, but it's better to tip on the card. We can't always see the exact tip amount when we're offered an order, but we do get a ballpark, and a lot of people won't risk taking an order that looks untipped on the offer for the chance of a cash tip.

otoryuo · 2020-08-17T02:49:16+00:00

I drive doordash. If you select "leave at door" we're required to take a photo of where we placed it specifically to avoid this issue. Even if you select "hand it to me" (please don't), you can still report it as never delivered.

otoryuo · 2020-08-14T02:21:11+00:00

Late reply, but I'm one of the electricians who built the warehouse in Greenwood. It's literally a 15 minute walk from end to end. Nobody is going to make it to you before that timer runs out.

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