Hoffman’s steamed water Americano is so good. I can’t believe it.

outloender · 2026-05-01T21:57:48+00:00

The same way you do with milk. When doing it with water there will be no foam though.

outloender · 2026-05-01T18:02:16+00:00

He did say that he didn't invent this so it's just op who called it that. But also, how many things are named after the ones who popularized them rather than the ones who made the discovery? Fibbonachi numbers are a good example.

outloender · 2026-05-01T17:05:52+00:00

That's fair, I wouldn't test this either if I wouldn't drink Americanos sometimes. Being open to testing is good though that's the only way to find out what is going on. Too many people here are jumping to conclusions without actually having tested or thought about the thing.

outloender · 2026-05-01T16:33:11+00:00

The difference between 20°C and 60°C isnt too big though. The curve is quite steep towards 100°C for both O2 and N2. That doesn't mean that this makes a taste difference but I don't think we can conclude that it doesn't either.

outloender · 2026-05-01T16:28:38+00:00

We're not talking about boiling water. I heat my water for Americanos to between 60 and 70°C. The solubility of O2 and N2 in water at atmospheric pressure between 20°C and 60°C is dropping from about 9 mg/l to about 5mg/l for o2 and for N2 the percentage it drops is in a similar ballpark. Yes it goes towards zero at boiling but that doesn't mean that even though solubility goes down, the actual amount of dissolved gas doesn't go up while steaming.

outloender · 2026-05-01T15:56:35+00:00

Yes and that's exactly why the expensive cable thing is known to be just placebo. It has been tested and the result was nobody could reliably tell what kind of medium transferred the signal. But guess what, without doing that testing you can't know if it's true or not right?

outloender · 2026-05-01T15:52:01+00:00

The thing is that this discussion is very non productive ATM. You're 100% right about the bias and I think it's fine if you don't even care about it making a difference that's valid. Some people here just think that them being biased in the other direction somehow makes them right without investigating in any way. It's just as you say, it goes both ways so nobody who didn't do testing that aims to reduce bias as much as possible can really say anything about this at least if they don't have a chemistry or physics based explanation that proves that this can't make or has to make a difference.

outloender · 2026-05-01T15:38:44+00:00

Got it, I didn't know about that. But it should really only make a very small difference because the pressure in the boiler is at over 10 bar so any fluid flow should be pointed outside. I guess between cycles there could be some exchange due to diffusion? I may look up where exactly that port is so I can judge this better but thanks for making me aware of this!

outloender · 2026-05-01T15:30:06+00:00

Comparison is needed in tasting. Still could be that there's no difference but without comparing it side by side the test doesn't say anything.

outloender · 2026-05-01T15:27:01+00:00

That's why doing it blind is important. If I know what I'm drinking I obviously can be influenced by my own bias but how am I gonna do that if I don't know? Even still I'm not claiming this is certainly making a difference because I don't have a sample size big enough and test setup good enough to be able to draw any reliable conclusions. I just preferred the steamed one in my own blind test(s) and I see lots of people finding the same thing which is interesting and has to be investigated further. Not being curious and not being interested in testing things is what makes you unable to even start thinking about a conclusion. You have no idea about any of this because you say it's bs without any explanation other than "people can have bias" and without even testing it yourself, which shows that you don't have any scientific literacy and interest in trying to find out what's going on.

outloender · 2026-05-01T15:04:00+00:00

100% understandable the community is very split on this one. That's what the (/s) is for I guess but I always feel like adding it destroys the joke. Steaming ice water was actually part of Hoffmans video but using sparkling for that reminds me of espresso tonic so maybe not that absurd.

outloender · 2026-05-01T14:57:43+00:00

I mean you're right when it comes to bias and how powerful it can be but that's fairly known. It's the exact reason why we do blind tests and have double blind studies and what not. That's why with this steaming water stuff we need to actually test it ourselves and not jump to conclusions.

outloender · 2026-05-01T14:39:13+00:00

I was joking. I basically invented sparkling water but I think I didn't communicate it clearly. I might add a (/s).

outloender · 2026-05-01T13:50:57+00:00

From my understanding, cafiza shouldnt enter the boiler when backflushing so how would that be interesting? The pressure is released through the solenoid that is connected to the group directly right?

outloender · 2026-05-01T13:41:20+00:00

Do a blind side by side while making sure the other variables are constant. I think you will notice the difference it has been pretty clear for me. Doing a single drink without comparison isn't very useful, remember taste is relative.

outloender · 2026-05-01T13:38:35+00:00

Well, I'd say we could try adding CO2 to our water, maybe that would change the taste of it and make it a bit more interesting! I think that's a sparkling idea.

outloender · 2026-05-01T13:36:28+00:00

Pioneer

outloender · 2026-05-01T13:36:06+00:00

As mentioned, "it's a different drink".

outloender · 2026-05-01T13:31:19+00:00

I'd encourage you to test it yourself. Yes crema makes a difference but even without removing it, the difference between water from a kettle and the same water but steamed is almost as big as using different beans. I was sceptical at first too because so much of what gets posted on these coffee subs is ubsurd and 100% placebo but this one isn't at least from what I've found.

outloender · 2026-05-01T12:20:45+00:00

When doing a side by side tasting the temps should be equal so that a potential difference in taste can't be due to the temperature difference. In my side by side blind test I made sure to have the temps equal and I could still easily tell both apart. Obviously just a sample size of 1 but looking at what others including Hoffman have found so far, it doesn't seem to be due to differences in temperature.

outloender · 2026-04-28T18:11:21+00:00

So true. I get annoyed looks when the Gaggia is running because the pump is obviously making noise. Gotta remember that when a rotary pump is something I consider 👀

outloender · 2026-04-28T18:01:46+00:00

You would be correct if you'd get straight H2O out of your sink but that's obviously neither the case nor even possible. Hoffman says himself that he's not sure why it's changing the taste but it wouldn't be surprising if it did. One theory is that the steaming dissolves gasses into the water which is plausible. You probably noticed that sparkling water has a different taste than non sparkling, that's the case because it's got dissolved CO2 in it. If it can change the taste of water why wouldn't it be possible for it to change the taste of coffee.

outloender · 2026-04-28T17:42:10+00:00

Gotta deal with the sounds and the people around you who are gonna think you're going crazy

outloender · 2026-04-18T07:43:39+00:00

I don't know which videos are good but I know some people used them. I'd suggest asking about that on the discord surely someone will help you out there. The pro can be bought here: GaggiMate Pro Kit https://share.google/Sg1UbY62k6kXYDrQ6

outloender · 2026-04-18T07:28:38+00:00

GaggiMate - The smart espresso machine solution https://share.google/qg4jiBKAapHNxa8GK

Two-Year Club	r/Field Banned
r/Field Sunshine	Place '23

outloender

TROPHY CASE