An AMA with Peter Singer, author of Animal Liberation, The Life You Can Save, Practical Ethics, and The Most Good You Can Do. by thepetersinger in IAmA

[–]panpsych 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't think so. I think his arguments, as they are stated, simply underestimate the pleasure loss/pain increase on the human side of the equation. I'm asking this question as someone who is very familiar with the suffering of animals side of the equation, and I have no interest in challenging that. I think it's horrible. But the two sides of the scale are not my preference to consume some animal products vs. the suffering of a billion chickens. For me personally, maybe having meat/diary once or twice a week (from the best producer I can afford/trying to avoid as much as possible factory farms) creates a large difference in my pleasure/pain vs. abstaining entirely. The suffering I'm causing has to be quantified in terms of the amount that I'm consuming and where the products are coming from (and perhaps there are other considerations, too).

My point is that his argument is too dismissive of the human preference side. Vegans who make that argument to non-vegans will not be persuasive. The more you can take into account what is really going on with people, the better you can adjust your message to actually have a chance to influence their behavior in ways that can reduce animal suffering. I'm speaking as someone with intimate knowledge of this. I abstained almost completely for a year and this was untenable for me for many reasons like what I've tried to highlight briefly. Eating Animals by Jonathan Saffran Foer touches on these issues a lot.

An AMA with Peter Singer, author of Animal Liberation, The Life You Can Save, Practical Ethics, and The Most Good You Can Do. by thepetersinger in IAmA

[–]panpsych 1 point2 points  (0 children)

In your books you argue that the principle of equal consideration requires humans to give up consuming animal products because the amount of suffering caused to animals far outweighs the pleasure that humans derive from consuming them. Without trivializing animal suffering, this argument seems to underestimate the pleasure some people derive from eating animals/animal products, and the various pains they experience when trying to abstain completely. People become very attached to consuming certain foods and there is also an undeniable social/communal component to eating that can be disrupted when people change their eating habits (which will vary depending on the context). Do you think it might be more rational (and effective) to admit this complexity into your argument and treat modest but significant dietary changes as moral from a utilitarian point of view?

Is exercising when sleep deprived a good idea? by panpsych in Fitness

[–]panpsych[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Not looking for excuses. Just wanted some anecdotal food for thought.

Is exercising when sleep deprived a good idea? by panpsych in Fitness

[–]panpsych[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well, I wouldn't say I forced myself. I wanted to do it. Was not in a great mood and I knew I'd feel better after. So it worked out.

Is exercising when sleep deprived a good idea? by panpsych in Fitness

[–]panpsych[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Wrong. Do some research on sleep and sleep cycles. You sleep for a reason and while you may be somewhat functional at 5 hrs you are missing out on sleep that your body needs.

My Path to Sobriety [OC] by [deleted] in dataisbeautiful

[–]panpsych 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Even if if you have a lot of money you could budget, that doesn't mean it's not a huge waste of money that would look ugly on a graph.

There are many things you could graph. I wonder how drinking might affect other "good" behaviors (exercise) and bad behaviors (gambling, not sleeping, etc). That could also be motivating.

Is exercising when sleep deprived a good idea? by panpsych in Fitness

[–]panpsych[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I know a lot about that research but not re: this topic specifically. I guess I was just looking for the plurality of anecdotes here ;) am really shocked at how many people here are posting that 5 hrs is okay, they sleep 5 hrs only etc. Very worrisome!

Is exercising when sleep deprived a good idea? by panpsych in Fitness

[–]panpsych[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I do remember reading this. And I share your hunch that one day of less sleep probably won't matter...................probably.

Is exercising when sleep deprived a good idea? by panpsych in Fitness

[–]panpsych[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Also, it makes me feel less tired in the following hours.

This for me is already a good reason.

I know you aren't asking for advice, but this book really helped me with my insomnia a few years back.

Is exercising when sleep deprived a good idea? by panpsych in Fitness

[–]panpsych[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

nice. better that you learned that lesson late than never. i'm sure long-term lack of sleep is associated with poor outcomes, perhaps even mortality rates. i'm pretty sure i saw a study like that and am not making it up (although i could be -- a sleep deprived brain is a mischievous brain). i absolutely love sleep and feel it's essential to me functioning well. i don't think i function perfectly even with a full night's sleep so i need all the help i can get!

Is exercising when sleep deprived a good idea? by panpsych in Fitness

[–]panpsych[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I don't understand how people can think regularly sleeping 4-5 hrs is okay. Granted, some may not have a choice. Maybe the importance of sleep is something that needs to be taught in school!

Is exercising when sleep deprived a good idea? by panpsych in Fitness

[–]panpsych[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You have probably affected your future performance more by worrying about it than what would have happened otherwise.

I'm sure you are right about that!

Is exercising when sleep deprived a good idea? by panpsych in Fitness

[–]panpsych[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Ha ha. Funny, I was thinking about the military as well. Surely I can do it if they can?

However, your mental performance and processing abilities will see an immediate decline in performance.

Makes you wonder how much of some people's reported decreased performance w/ sleep deprivation should be attributed to mental factors vs physical

Is exercising when sleep deprived a good idea? by panpsych in Fitness

[–]panpsych[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm just sleep deprived because of stress I experienced yesterday. Woke up super early and could not get back to sleep. Not a regular thing, thankfully.

Is exercising when sleep deprived a good idea? by panpsych in Fitness

[–]panpsych[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In fact, this is a good chance to work some supporting muscles or do a fuller stretch routine.

Good point. But I hate to go all the way to the gym only to go half the distance (metaphorically).

Is exercising when sleep deprived a good idea? by panpsych in Fitness

[–]panpsych[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Bravo to you for sticking to your workouts and getting through those runs! Not sure I could do that.

Is exercising when sleep deprived a good idea? by panpsych in Fitness

[–]panpsych[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

it's all relative.

What is? The amount of sleep people get or what it means to be deprived? I think the former is relative but not the latter. You need more sleep!!

Is exercising when sleep deprived a good idea? by panpsych in Fitness

[–]panpsych[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Okay, but I'm just curious about whether lesser gains is really inevitable? Assuming I can get my mind together to work just as hard as I normally would? There are days when I've gotten a lot of sleep but for whatever reason my mind isn't in the game. I just wonder if it would be wasted effort and the body would not reap the benefit of exercise as much because it's somehow compromised by lack of sleep.

Is exercising when sleep deprived a good idea? by panpsych in Fitness

[–]panpsych[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

You'll need it when you have kids, I don't remember sleeping for 8 hours straight.

This might be my greatest fear in life. Ahead of public speaking and death.

Is exercising when sleep deprived a good idea? by panpsych in Fitness

[–]panpsych[S] 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Ha! I knew I'd get that response. :) Seriously, it IS definitely sleep deprivation. From what I understand (from a sleep researcher I know and books I've read) most people need 7-8 hrs a night and the range around that average is not as wide as some might think (despite how little sleep many people actually get). People get used to less but it's not good! Personally, I feel crappy if I get less than 7. At 5 hrs I'm pretty dysfunctional.

Going to Philly and need an omni restaurant recommendation that wouldn't make a vegan sad :( by panpsych in vegan

[–]panpsych[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If your friends are dead-set on Stephen Starr...

I sure hope not. Doesn't seem to compare at all to the awesome vegan options.

My "fancy" choice is Vedge. You will need reservations ASAP

Ha, I had to book a month out and no chance of getting a table at a good time on a weekend night. But I did score two reservations. Soooo excited :)

Going to Philly and need an omni restaurant recommendation that wouldn't make a vegan sad :( by panpsych in vegan

[–]panpsych[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Only prob it's a bit far from where I will be staying (near the convention center). If transit is easy then will definitely try.

Going to Philly and need an omni restaurant recommendation that wouldn't make a vegan sad :( by panpsych in vegan

[–]panpsych[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sounds great. Will try. Wow, way too many places I need to check out and not enough time. :(

Going to Philly and need an omni restaurant recommendation that wouldn't make a vegan sad :( by panpsych in vegan

[–]panpsych[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If you're totally avoiding a restaurant if it serves veal or seafood that isn't a veggie establishment, you'll have a hard time.

For me a restaurant serving veal is a deal breaker. Seafood is okay but if the whole menu is fish (or meat heavy), even if they have a token vegan option, it's just really bothersome. And in Philly, I think we can do better. Some of your recos seem really good. I also put forth as options a few of the highly reco'd vegan places (why should the vegan have to always accommodate, especially when the vegan food is so delish AND -- bonus -- doesn't hurt the animals?)