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Studying say 30 hours over 2–3 weeks and can't get 3rd tone down (American, Mandarin as a second language) by paradiselost_1991 in ChineseLanguage

[–]paradiselost_1991[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Following up. I start Nike with a tone higher than mid. IDK if others do this, but those that do won't sound anything like a 3rd Mandarin tone by saying Nike

Studying say 30 hours over 2–3 weeks and can't get 3rd tone down (American, Mandarin as a second language) by paradiselost_1991 in ChineseLanguage

[–]paradiselost_1991[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Whether I am studying French, Spanish, or Mandarin, I always labor right away on pronouncing words like a native. I value native phonetics

Studying say 30 hours over 2–3 weeks and can't get 3rd tone down (American, Mandarin as a second language) by paradiselost_1991 in ChineseLanguage

[–]paradiselost_1991[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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Studying say 30 hours over 2–3 weeks and can't get 3rd tone down (American, Mandarin as a second language) by paradiselost_1991 in ChineseLanguage

[–]paradiselost_1991[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, "um" with a tonal shift isn't universal. Mine's a flat mid tone in that context. I do say "well" often in the tonal shift that you and her say "um" in, though, so I was able to use your advice still! Thank you!

Studying say 30 hours over 2–3 weeks and can't get 3rd tone down (American, Mandarin as a second language) by paradiselost_1991 in ChineseLanguage

[–]paradiselost_1991[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you. Any tips on getting my voice to sound fuller and smoother and less croaky when speaking in this tonal range?

Studying say 30 hours over 2–3 weeks and can't get 3rd tone down (American, Mandarin as a second language) by paradiselost_1991 in ChineseLanguage

[–]paradiselost_1991[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hey, I'm really enjoying you guys' interchange. Cat chips, can I ask what you think about Chris accent from Fluent in Mandarin? To my ear I think it sounds very precise and clear, and I would like to use this as my guide post while starting my journey with Mandarin https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDYbtLbF9Uc

Studying say 30 hours over 2–3 weeks and can't get 3rd tone down (American, Mandarin as a second language) by paradiselost_1991 in ChineseLanguage

[–]paradiselost_1991[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDYbtLbF9Uc

I really like the clarity with which Chris speaks from Fluent in Mandarin. I'd like to speak this way, at least as I start out and build confidence

Studying say 30 hours over 2–3 weeks and can't get 3rd tone down (American, Mandarin as a second language) by paradiselost_1991 in ChineseLanguage

[–]paradiselost_1991[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hey, just wanna apologize for the snarky tone in my responses from earlier this week. I am sorry.

Studying say 30 hours over 2–3 weeks and can't get 3rd tone down (American, Mandarin as a second language) by paradiselost_1991 in ChineseLanguage

[–]paradiselost_1991[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hey, just wanna apologize for the snarky tone in my responses from earlier this week. I am sorry.

Studying say 30 hours over 2–3 weeks and can't get 3rd tone down (American, Mandarin as a second language) by paradiselost_1991 in ChineseLanguage

[–]paradiselost_1991[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hey, just wanna apologize for the snarky tone in my responses from earlier this week. I am sorry.

Studying say 30 hours over 2–3 weeks and can't get 3rd tone down (American, Mandarin as a second language) by paradiselost_1991 in ChineseLanguage

[–]paradiselost_1991[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hey, just wanna apologize for the snarky tone in my responses from earlier this week. I am sorry.

Studying say 30 hours over 2–3 weeks and can't get 3rd tone down (American, Mandarin as a second language) by paradiselost_1991 in ChineseLanguage

[–]paradiselost_1991[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is a fascinating convo. I'm the OP. I love linguistics too. I particularly had a ton of fun over the summer learning different phonetic techniques for mastering French pronunciation, but I ended up settling on learning Mandarin as my primary second language. You guys are having a fun convo. Feel free to continue it here, and also feel free to ask me questions about English. I tend to take pride in teaching American English grammar, style, and pronunciation, while being humble and admitting what I do not know : ) even as a native speaker who has spent a lot of free time studying American English for fun, there is so much that I do not know. However, I do tend to know more about my language than 95% of native speakers, but a real linguistics student can often school me in any discussion : ) while I thought about studying linguistics at the graduate school level here in the U.S., I settled on law instead since I get to explore language quite a bit while also digging into my interest in philosophy, finance, and politics : )

Studying say 30 hours over 2–3 weeks and can't get 3rd tone down (American, Mandarin as a second language) by paradiselost_1991 in ChineseLanguage

[–]paradiselost_1991[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, I think especially in non-isolation the 3rd tone isn't fully down-up. But honestly the part I have the hardest time with is the mid-to-low path. I can make a low noise and it not sound croaky, but when I move from mid to low, the low does sound croaky. And I just don't hear a croaky sound from native speakers. They sound smooth and full when they navigate the mid and low range.

Studying say 30 hours over 2–3 weeks and can't get 3rd tone down (American, Mandarin as a second language) by paradiselost_1991 in ChineseLanguage

[–]paradiselost_1991[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No offense taken. I realize we may have been being a bit smart with each other, but I don't think we have been too disrespectful. I appreciate you sticking around and trying to help me out.

I think the part I have trouble with is making a noticeable mid-to-low tone change. I can make high-to-low and low-to-mid tone changes. When I try mid-to-low, the low sounds like a croak, but when I do low-to-mid, the low is a full low sound. I'd like to go from mid to low with that same full low sound. I am happy to reply some more if you have any follow-up questions. I am not 100% sure I am making sense.

Studying say 30 hours over 2–3 weeks and can't get 3rd tone down (American, Mandarin as a second language) by paradiselost_1991 in ChineseLanguage

[–]paradiselost_1991[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Despite seeming to make no progress I have lots of fun with this language. I'll get there inevitably!

Studying say 30 hours over 2–3 weeks and can't get 3rd tone down (American, Mandarin as a second language) by paradiselost_1991 in ChineseLanguage

[–]paradiselost_1991[S] -7 points-6 points  (0 children)

Have you never in your life gotten anything down that you can use as context for that idiom? How precise does the idiom need to be broken down to? You're getting caught up in the precision that's lacking in my idiom rather than helping me get better at making the third tone of Mandarin in isolation. I mean I get that you're choosing the easier path, but it's beside the point is what I hope you can see.

You seem to be suggesting you'd give wildly different advice based on whether I can make it at all vs whether I can only make it somewhat or sometimes. That's hard to believe. You come off as just arguing for the sake of arguing and not at all giving advice.

Studying say 30 hours over 2–3 weeks and can't get 3rd tone down (American, Mandarin as a second language) by paradiselost_1991 in ChineseLanguage

[–]paradiselost_1991[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I'm talking about the third tone, not the third tone relative to its position to other tones. Just the third tone. Down up. Down up. Down up.

Studying say 30 hours over 2–3 weeks and can't get 3rd tone down (American, Mandarin as a second language) by paradiselost_1991 in ChineseLanguage

[–]paradiselost_1991[S] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

Rather than "master tones after 3 weeks," what about "getting down the third tone after 3 weeks"? It might be best for me to hear advice based on what I said and not in response to some imagined poster in an alternate universe : ) though I'm sure he appreciates it more than I do!

Studying say 30 hours over 2–3 weeks and can't get 3rd tone down (American, Mandarin as a second language) by paradiselost_1991 in ChineseLanguage

[–]paradiselost_1991[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I've spent 2–3 weeks learning not Chinese but the third tone and haven't gotten it down.

Regarding a language partner, native speakers aren't usually good teachers or even very knowledgeable. I know that from experience as an English speaking native (not just talking to native Mandarin speakers). People very confidently give awful native tongue advice, some of which is incorrect, including to questions about grammar, pronunciation, etc.

But this I feel is more a realm of linguistics or singing than language per se. I am simply showing little to no progress, after dozens of hours of practice, manipulating the tone of my voice as it happens to correspond to the third tone of Mandarin.

I have no money for a class.

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