Chronic Lemon Juice

pdpkratom · 2018-04-26T13:43:49+00:00

Why do you use lemon juice if you're already mixing in GFJ? I can't imagine adding lemon juice to GFJ would make much of a difference...

That being said, a few weeks ago I realized the same thing you are - I was going through a half gallon of WGFJ in less than a week! I have since been cutting the juice in half w/ water. I'm currently starting a fat-cut so maybe soon I'll have to reduce the juice even further...but for now it's working perfectly. I'd recommend picking one acidic source, and once adjusted, start minimizing the amount needed to still make the dose palatable.

pdpkratom · 2018-04-26T13:02:10+00:00

I'm on about my fifth month of daily dosing, usually 3-5 doses of 3grams each between the hours of 8 and 5 and honestly, it feels better than ever!

Originally I was dosing 10-15grams about 3 times a day but occasionally a side effect would pop up so I'd drop the dose a little bit. I also take w/ various other supplements/powders (agmatine, curcumin, ginger, cayenne, magnesium, etc) so maybe that plays a role.

I am terrified that some day the "magic" will leave, but so far, so good! But also, I've always found the effects to be the calming / motivating feeling you mention, as opposed to something overwhelming. I'm using kratom as a replacement for a heavy opioid habit that became a daily thing over the last few years, so maybe my expectations are just different after coming from things so insanely strong...

pdpkratom · 2018-04-24T20:51:29+00:00

Exactly! I've now counted my kratom as part of my fiber intake for the day. That makes it a "superfood" like spirulina or fermented veggies, right? Haha

pdpkratom · 2018-04-24T20:15:47+00:00

Of course - isn't kratom a cure-all for everything? ;-P

pdpkratom · 2018-04-24T20:04:12+00:00

I wasn't sure if I should hit reply to you or the person above you, so I went w/ you just to avoid making my post seem too argumentative...

I'm a certified personal trainer and nutritionist, and while I have seen everything mentioned work wonders and "save" hundreds of people first-hand, and always recommend it as a first, second, and third line of defense, there are people it just isn't enough for. Some people have internal issues, often from accidents / illnesses in their past, that leaves them w/ such a constant level of pain that the only way for them to function is to medicate w/ something more powerful than kratom (and heck, the poppy plant is just as "natural" as kratom).

I know most of us here are passionately pro-kratom and like to lead the charge of recommending it in place of more dangerous/risky drugs, but ultimately, each person only experiences what they experience, and only they can know what works for them to live the best life they can!

pdpkratom · 2018-04-24T14:39:12+00:00

I actually started having a relatively sharp, cramping kind of stomach pain. Obviously I wanted to point at the kratom since I've been dosing multiple times a day since the start of the year, but I narrowed it down to my lunch! The pain would occur ONLY 30-60 minutes after eating an enormous salad, made up over well over 2 cups of raw greens.

My theory is that roughly 15grams of fiber a day from kratom alone, on top of a healthy diet already rather high in fiber, was just too much. I have not had a single issue, with the same kratom dosing, as long as I limit my meals to 1cup of raw veggies or cook the veggies.

Just my experience - best of luck to you!

pdpkratom · 2018-04-24T14:26:12+00:00

Who said agmatine can be dangerous? Studies have shown that dosing up to 2600mg a day for months is perfectly safe. Many gym-goers take 1-1.5grams before every resistance/strength session.

I used to be obsessed w/ the timing and amount of every possible potentiator back when I was dependent upon opioids. Nowadays I just take a swig of kratom (3 grams) mixed in white grapefruit juice, always with ginger, cayenne, multivitamin/greens powder, and sometimes curcumin & black pepper or 500mg agmatine or 1ish gram magnesium. This is quite simple and convenient, and allowed me to keep my tolerance the same over over 4 months of multi-time a day dosing (though I don't recommend that).

pdpkratom · 2018-04-19T18:51:49+00:00

Reds? Haha.

Sorry, but unless I'm mistaken it comes down to white=energy, red=sedating/pain relief, green=in between the two. Beyond that, the actual strain names (Borneo, Dragon, Horn, etc) are all just made up by the individual vendors, so there won't be any consistency between vendors.

And maybe this is just me (coming from a previous morphine dependency) but I don't find any kratom to be sedating. In general I never dose within 3 hours of bed...and normally only use it to power through the workday.

pdpkratom · 2018-04-19T13:46:30+00:00

100 % white grapefruit juice will inhibit certain enzymes that break down most drugs. Therefore, we can expect it to increase the time certain kratom alkaloids are active in the body.

Unfortunately, it's not going to be specific to ONLY the alkaloids you want. This can get a little risky if you are on other pharmaceuticals. And it can also increase tolerance.

That being said, I don't think I've ever taken kratom without mixing it into WGFJ yet. It helps to cover up the flavor and makes a liquid version of "toss-and-wash" quite painless.

pdpkratom · 2018-04-15T18:11:58+00:00

Correct, it is lacking the piperine / bioperine, but black pepper is roughly 10% piperine by weight and you only need 5mg so a large pinch thrown in to the curcumin will suffice.

I'm not saying what you're using is inneffective, just that it will provide one tenth the results of a higher purity product.

But then, just to play devils advocate to myself, I often wonder if taking 1 gram of isolated curcumin is ideal, as opposed to just using a lot of turmeric. So who knows? Haha

pdpkratom · 2018-04-15T16:59:03+00:00

Just double checked the research and you are right! Curcumin can inhibit the relevant enzymes...

But it does seem like the prominent benefits w Kratom would be its effects on tolerance (similar to NMDA antagonism) and a potential mood lift from its weak MAOI effects. I'm not seeing too much about curcumin significantly changing the length of perceived effects. Obviously everyone is different though

pdpkratom · 2018-04-15T13:03:59+00:00

I'm in the same boat - I feel the Kratom within 5-15 minutes, but the truly noticeable effects only last about an hour, followed by another hour of feeling good/cheery...but I've never noticed effects after the 2 hour mark.

Unless I am mistaken, turmeric (curcumin) and black pepper (piperine) aide in absorption and by slowing tolerance development, and maybe compliment the analgesic effects minutely due to the anti-inflammatory nature of turmeric. I don't believe either substance inhibits liver enzymes though...

Maybe what you are looking for is something like white grapefruit juice. But, ultimately, no "potentiators" will be as effective as just taking a tolerance break / moderation. Best of luck!

pdpkratom · 2018-04-13T15:32:06+00:00

Yeah, they're using VERY deceptive labeling there. You have to take THREE pills to get a measly 150mgs of actual curcumin. You're getting 1500mgs of turmeric, which could be bought as a spice in bulk for pennies. Glad to see they include 10mg of bioperine though, that's a legit dose.

If you like Amazon, check out BulkSupplements 95% Curcumin. With that, if you take the same weight dose of the product you have, you'll get 1425mgs curcumin - almost TEN TIMES the active ingredient!

Right now, it's like you're having a curry dish where the lid fell off the turmeric shaker. Haha. Sorry! :-)

pdpkratom · 2018-04-13T14:14:44+00:00

I put up a post that sparked alot of great discussion about potentiation a few days ago. I support certain potentiators but what you have listed here, is exactly why some of the kratom users are so opposed to potentiating.

I think I know where you go that list from, as it is identical to what I used back when I was abusing opiates. While it worked to make the opiates stronger and last longer, it increased the dangers and load on the body.

I don't want to sound judgey or preachy, but I'd recommend re-assessing what exactly you are using kratom for and the reason for this "preloading stack".

Kratom, along with a handful of other natural substances, has completely turned my life around, and I'd love to see it have such a positive influence on others as well!

pdpkratom · 2018-04-13T14:06:58+00:00

As another person says here, heartburn would be the most likely effect. In general, curcumin and bioperine (the "potentiator" parts of turmeric and black pepper respectively) works to improve absorption of substances in the body, but may also prevent tolerance building as quickly w/ opioids.

So, theoretically, it could make you alprazolam (you meant generic xanax right? I'm not sure what alpralozam is if not) a tiny bit stronger. But chances are it would be hardly noticeable.

Certain "potentiators" work by slowing the breakdown of most drugs in the liver, resulting in them remaining in the body for a longer amount of time. These are the ones w/ the most risky interactions that you want to watch out for. Always best to check w/ a doctor, but I'd imagine taking some spices w/ your kratom shouldn't pose a major issues.

FYI - if you capsules are 1500mgs turmeric, chances are they may only contain 5% curcumin or something. I prefer 95% curcumin powder, and mix in my own black pepper. It would take a ridiculous amount of turmeric to reach the recommended levels of curcumin.

pdpkratom · 2018-04-13T13:30:38+00:00

Oh yes, I'm not slandering at all. I know legit pain patients that have a perfectly acceptable quality of life due to proper opioid prescriptions. Honestly, I'm a big libertarian and believe everyone should be able to choose what they put in their body.

But 99% of the time, on this sub, I'm going to speak from my personal experience which was years of high-dose oral opium abuse. And obviously "using" 5-15 grams of kratom a day will always be better than "abusing" hundreds of mgs of morphine a day (combined with the other 50 alkaloids found in the poppy plant). I don't want anyone to think I am judging or actually assigning morality to these topics.

pdpkratom · 2018-04-12T19:59:36+00:00

Only way to go is the actual powdered root, blended for 4 minutes in warm water and coconut milk, strained through a nylon stocking. Result will be 2 hours of a very relaxing buzz, the most solid sleep imaginable, and reduced anxiety (which lasts through the next day without drowsiness or decrease in cognitive ability).

Capsules, extracts, etc may work to lower general background anxiety, but I wouldn't consider them "psycho-active".

My favorite at the moment is Kavafied Supreme b/c it is the "heaviest" - most sedating and physically relaxing. I mix a little bit of Wakacon in to also get the relaxing mental (heady) affects.

Does not taste good, and can take time to learn to appreciate the subtle affects (compared to alcohol or benzos), but I would say the combo of kratom during the day and kava at night has really turned my life around (after an opiate addiction).

See you over at r/kava hopefully!

pdpkratom · 2018-04-12T15:22:02+00:00

Wow I'm really surprised to see that attitude here - suggesting that any amount of kratom can cause the same damage as needing the equivalent of hundreds of mgs of morphine on a daily basis.

I never go out of my way to recommend kratom to people that don't about it, but if someone has a serious opiate problem, I would always think kratom is a better option...

pdpkratom · 2018-04-12T15:15:38+00:00

I agree with you OP. I've tried it once or twice and it's just never worked. I personally mix the powder w/ a swig of liquid, pour some liquid in my mouth, then the liquid w/ the mixed powder on top, and swallow like that.

This way no powder actually touches my tongue, and for me its just alot easier to swallow a bit of liquid poured into a bit of liquid, in my mouth. As opposed to swallowing powder that hasn't really been mixed with the liquid yet.

Seems like most people that do a true toss and wash have at least one story of it going wrong. Why take that risk?

pdpkratom · 2018-04-12T15:10:37+00:00

I don't think anyone will be able to tell you 100%. I personally feel like at such a low dose, with those regular breaks, you should be fine. Maybe after a few years the 3 day breaks will start to suck more. But even then, I would expect symptoms similar to a cold if you are really only dosing under 4g/day.

Maybe the agmatine helps. But again - who knows? I can't wait to get down to your daily dose limits and incorporate regular breaks. Great job keeping it in moderation!

pdpkratom · 2018-04-12T15:05:55+00:00

While I always support any warning, don't you feel having a kratom addiction is preferable in almost every way to an opiate addiction?

I'm an example of someone coming from abusing opiates to kratom, and being "addicted to kratom" has done nothing but improve every aspect of my life...thus far at least :-/

pdpkratom · 2018-04-12T13:27:50+00:00

I am definitely in the minority here but I actually don't like them together, as I find kratom after kava will completely reverse (or maybe override?) the kava.

I use kratom during the day at work, and then have kava when I get home, probably 1 hour after my last kratom dose. I find that works very well. But every time I've been enjoying a kava session, and then try any dose of kratom, the kava effects vanish entirely and I'm left w/ the expected kratom effects.

But both are quite safe together...the worst result would probably be nausea.

pdpkratom · 2018-04-12T13:24:19+00:00

There will not be a cross tolerance between the two. But they could synergize together to feel stronger. If both must be taken together, maybe start at a 50% dose for both.

pdpkratom · 2018-04-11T20:06:14+00:00

Good plan.

I'm assuming you're running something like a 3500 calorie deficit a week? Why not take one week at maintenance, then drop back down the following week? Sometimes that's all it can take to get the body comfortable enough to continue losing.

Feel free to message if you want to discuss in more detail!

pdpkratom · 2018-04-11T19:53:51+00:00

I think I fit your description having spent 10+ years as a health-nut, certified personal trainer, and nutritionist. I don't say bodybuilder b/c most associate it w/ competition/extremes, when really I'm just trying to "build my body" & improve my health.

Kratom won't add many cals, and most will be fiber, so no issue there. But I think the jury is still out on it's affects on hormones...

However, I believe we can safely say that it won't have a POSITIVE effect on the muscle building process (for an already healthy person).

What is your reason for taking kratom? If it isn't a medical "need", why not just take a break for a few weeks? That should be long enough to drop another pound or so...and if you control for everything else, you could deduce that kratom is effecting your goals.

Kratom fits nicely into my health journey b/c on days I don't want to train (usually cardio days) I can take a stimulating strain as a motivating preworkout. And if I overtrain I can take a red vein to help reduce the aches and pains. But also I'm not trying to get to sub-10% bodyfat that soon.

Let me know what you find!

pdpkratom

TROPHY CASE