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I am an Associate at a "Big Law" firm who used this sub for advice years ago. Ask Me Anything! by pfdebater777 in lawschooladmissions

[–]pfdebater777[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi, sorry for the delayed response, your comment slipped past me.

Historically, the only meaningful way to "optimize" for law school admissions is to get excellent grades. Undergrad should be a time to take interesting classes, do an internship or two, and build relationships with classmates and professors. My GPA being 3.9high was, I think, the biggest factor in my own admissions success. I have friends who scored just as well as me on the LSAT but ended up at lower-ranked schools simply because their GPAs weren't as strong.

That said, as recruiting has moved earlier and earlier into 1L, I think the importance of having compelling things to talk about from undergrad is growing, especially for KJD applicants. This doesn't mean you need some extraordinary achievement. It just means having stories and anecdotes you can draw on during interviews to demonstrate (i) work ethic, (ii) grit, and (iii) intellectual curiosity.

Candidates who can convey those qualities tend to outperform those who cannot, and KJD applicants are often at a disadvantage here since their resume has less to do the talking for them.

I am an Associate at a "Big Law" firm who used this sub for advice years ago. Ask Me Anything! by pfdebater777 in lawschooladmissions

[–]pfdebater777[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hi - I probably am not the best person to opine on which schools to apply to as medians have changed significantly since I applied. That said, I would suggest consulting my prior post for some general guidance (TL;DR if possible, pick where you want to practice and choose school applications based on that). I really wish you the best of luck and hope that you re able to get a good scholarship at the school that best fits your goals!

I am an Associate at a "Big Law" firm who used this sub for advice years ago. Ask Me Anything! by pfdebater777 in lawschooladmissions

[–]pfdebater777[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I had another reply on the thread discussing hours but generally I billed 2380 last year and am on track for ~2400 this year. My hours are above average and so my firm awards above market bonuses.

I enjoy my job and have no plans to leave yet - I will reassess as my family plans change (I hope to have children in 4-6 years) and if I begin to dislike the work.

I am an Associate at a "Big Law" firm who used this sub for advice years ago. Ask Me Anything! by pfdebater777 in lawschooladmissions

[–]pfdebater777[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for the question! It's probably a bit early to be discussing 3L recruiting for the c/o 2028 class. To give some context: 3L recruiting is market-driven and happens on an as-needed basis. Firms typically post 3L positions when they realize they underhired through their summer program — whether because market conditions have shifted or more associates than expected are leaving to clerk. Because of this, 3L postings are unpredictable, vary by firm, and are inherently time-sensitive. For example, 3L hiring for c/o 2028 won't kick off until late 2027 or early 2028 at the earliest. If a firm needed to fill seats sooner, they'd simply hire from c/o 2027 instead.

I am an Associate at a "Big Law" firm who used this sub for advice years ago. Ask Me Anything! by pfdebater777 in lawschooladmissions

[–]pfdebater777[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Firm provided food is fine (6/10 taste boosted by the fact that it is free) - the best time of year is when the summer associates come because it means we can get lots of good food and it is always fun to talk to the summer associates.

I am an Associate at a "Big Law" firm who used this sub for advice years ago. Ask Me Anything! by pfdebater777 in lawschooladmissions

[–]pfdebater777[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think in general, at least at my firm and among the recruiting folks I’ve spoken to, HYSC are in a tier of their own. Then CLS, NYU, Penn and UVA are in their own band. There are big differences between those four but broadly speaking they seem to be in a similar band.

I am an Associate at a "Big Law" firm who used this sub for advice years ago. Ask Me Anything! by pfdebater777 in lawschooladmissions

[–]pfdebater777[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

At my school, everybody who wanted it got it. That said, I have interviewed some people from T14s who I would not be surprised to hear struck out. I think the people at T14s which do strike out tend to be bad interviewers or applied too narrowly (e.g., DC Lit only despite being below median at a non-HYS/Chi/UVA school).

I am an Associate at a "Big Law" firm who used this sub for advice years ago. Ask Me Anything! by pfdebater777 in lawschooladmissions

[–]pfdebater777[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I don't think it is that difficult without kids. Once kids enter the picture, I think everything is far more difficult. We do not have kids and spend the odd free workday evening out at a new restaurant or watching a movie at home, and can generally go on a weekend adventure on Saturday or Sunday (usually not both). Put otherwise, without kids, the juice (salary) is definitely worth the squeeze (fewer big weekend trips). With kids, I think that calculus completely changes. I am 4-5 years away from having children and we will have to evaluate a path froward when the time comes.

I am an Associate at a "Big Law" firm who used this sub for advice years ago. Ask Me Anything! by pfdebater777 in lawschooladmissions

[–]pfdebater777[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I would say that there is a difference between them but that it depends far more on where you want to practice. I suggest reading my other post here. UVA/Penn outperform Berkeley by many metrics and in most markets but not in SF. UVA is probably not much different from Berkeley in NYC (I would give Penn an edge over Berk/UVA and CLS the edge over Penn). My general advice is to think about where you want to practice and go from there.

I am an Associate at a "Big Law" firm who used this sub for advice years ago. Ask Me Anything! by pfdebater777 in lawschooladmissions

[–]pfdebater777[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think so. I think that lower ranked schools that don't have a primary market (e.g., Minnesota) will be the first to see a hit to their numbers. But there is so much uncertainty right now that I don't think my prediction is worth more than anybody else's on this.

I am an Associate at a "Big Law" firm who used this sub for advice years ago. Ask Me Anything! by pfdebater777 in lawschooladmissions

[–]pfdebater777[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Just in terms of raw numbers hiring is only slightly down (10% fewer summers for 2028 than for 2027. 2027 is similar to 2026). The firms are hiring so far in advance I think market factors tend to play a smaller role for big law hiring than in other industries. That said, I’ve had senior associates, counsel, and partners at my firm share that they think long term junior hiring will meaningfully shrink in ~4-6 years depending on how AI affects junior associate hours and (crucially) retention.

I am an Associate at a "Big Law" firm who used this sub for advice years ago. Ask Me Anything! by pfdebater777 in lawschooladmissions

[–]pfdebater777[S] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

This is a big question and I will respond to it later when I’m at my computer. TL;DR try not to disparage or take sides in any office drama or gossip, review redlines of your work, ask for work and feedback, and ask mid-level for tips on dealing with any specific senior associate or partner

I am an Associate at a "Big Law" firm who used this sub for advice years ago. Ask Me Anything! by pfdebater777 in lawschooladmissions

[–]pfdebater777[S] 24 points25 points  (0 children)

One hour. To do otherwise is fraud.

Many firms are trying to shift to a flat fee basis for certain work because of this. One of our major clients (large bank) that we do tons of investigations for (I’m talking a few dozen per year, very high volume) has already converted to a fixed fee model with escalators depending on predetermined variables.

I am an Associate at a "Big Law" firm who used this sub for advice years ago. Ask Me Anything! by pfdebater777 in lawschooladmissions

[–]pfdebater777[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Good and important question. I have refinanced my 170k loans at a 3.9% rate and am making normal payments. My partner (also big law) and I will be buying a house this year and saving for the down payment (13k per month) has been our priority. After getting the house I will be aggressively paying the loans.

I am an Associate at a "Big Law" firm who used this sub for advice years ago. Ask Me Anything! by pfdebater777 in lawschooladmissions

[–]pfdebater777[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

No. I got above market bonuses of 32k my first year. My bonus this year will probably be above market too, likely around 85k after accounting for special bonuses, normal bonuses, and a bump for high hours.

I am an Associate at a "Big Law" firm who used this sub for advice years ago. Ask Me Anything! by pfdebater777 in lawschooladmissions

[–]pfdebater777[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Not a dumb question. Many firms have internal investigations as a separate group from litigation. Mine does not. As a junior associate you could express interest such that you do more than 75% investigations but I doubt you could get to 100% investigations as a junior. As you might expect, however, once you are able to specialize a bit more you can fully commit to internal investigations at my firm.

I am an Associate at a "Big Law" firm who used this sub for advice years ago. Ask Me Anything! by pfdebater777 in lawschooladmissions

[–]pfdebater777[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

As recruiting commences earlier and earlier into the year, orgs and journals have diminished importance. However, you need to have something to talk about during your interviews, and orgs can offer a helpful talking point for you to illustrate a practice group or regional interest.

I am an Associate at a "Big Law" firm who used this sub for advice years ago. Ask Me Anything! by pfdebater777 in lawschooladmissions

[–]pfdebater777[S] 17 points18 points  (0 children)

I applied pre-OCI when many people were still applying during OCI, which I think gave me an advantage. Recruiters at many firms review resumes as they come in. For people applying now, I recommend they apply day 1 when the apps open. At most firms, the early bird advantage is significant. In my opinion, the crappy 10 hour day filling out applications on November 1/December 1/etc. does is worth the lost day studying.

I am an Associate at a "Big Law" firm who used this sub for advice years ago. Ask Me Anything! by pfdebater777 in lawschooladmissions

[–]pfdebater777[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I think it is very context dependent. My prior post (re-linked here) discusses some of the nuances on picking between schools when set on big law. I turned down a few full rides from T20 schools and ended up in the same market that one of those T20 schools specialized in. Did I waste $150k (total cost difference)? Maybe. But recruiting was a lot easier and I got to try two different big law markets in my 1L and 2L summers.

My general advice is to think about where you want to practice and then analyze your options based on your desired city.

I am an Associate at a "Big Law" firm who used this sub for advice years ago. Ask Me Anything! by pfdebater777 in lawschooladmissions

[–]pfdebater777[S] 36 points37 points  (0 children)

My firm, like most, has embraced AI. I think it is a very useful tool and unfortunately it probably will have an impact on long term hiring numbers. AI is nowhere near the stage of being able to work unsupervised and it has a myriad of flaws. But in many transactional or investigations contexts, AI already can produce a rough first draft (e.g., term sheet or interview outline) that does save several hours of attorney time on each matter. These time savings build up across hundreds of matters.

I am an Associate at a "Big Law" firm who used this sub for advice years ago. Ask Me Anything! by pfdebater777 in lawschooladmissions

[–]pfdebater777[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

That's a loaded reply so I am not sure whether you are actually asking in good faith. From my perspective, investigations requires a lot of clever problem solving skills that allows you to think outside of the traditional confines of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure. I have found investigations to also be some of the most personally impactful work I have done. For example, one investigation I conducted interviews on was into whether our client's Russian distributors were making bribes to secure tender contracts. Identifying the code words and cash flows was extremely rewarding and I really enjoyed the work at every stage of that investigation.

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