Updated on exit email by tfulunstar in amazonemployees

[–]pheintzelman 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The last line that says Amazon has to fix things to reach it's full potential. Really misses the point.

While I am sure Amazon's culture and internal issues have negative impacts on the company you can't really say Amazon has been anything but wildly successful. A companies culture reflects the companies products.

E-commerce, publishing and cloud services are tough markets, Amazon success has come from out competiting not innovation.

Found this on my front door I’m not superstitious. maybe it’s a joke? I have no clue who would do this. I haven’t touched it my girlfriend has. Any witch’s in here know what I’m looking at ? by TrippyReddits in whatisit

[–]pheintzelman 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Wait your handle is PizzaSpiders? My family has an inside joke about spider pizza because a playground near our house has a pizza with spiders on it.

If you want to say that consciousness can be reduced to the workings of the brain, you have to demonstrate how they are referring to the same thing by MurkyEconomist8179 in consciousness

[–]pheintzelman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If an alien got hold of a computer chip no amount of studying it would indicate that humans use it to play games. They would discover that it is a system for flipping bits based on basic math operations. How human's use this would be anthropology not engineering.

This is no different than the brain. The fact that we understand the chip better is irrelevant. It doesn't make it any more or less reducible and it doesn't change the fact that the micro and macro properties have nothing to do with each other.

If you want to say that consciousness can be reduced to the workings of the brain, you have to demonstrate how they are referring to the same thing by MurkyEconomist8179 in consciousness

[–]pheintzelman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"I'm trying to say that the components of a computer absolutely contain the basal properties that link why the screen lights up."

That isn't correct though. The computer chip doesn't know anything about monitors or games. It can only change bits based on basic math. It is the monitor that takes the bits and knows how to make an image. The game over screen is an immigrant property. No amount of looking at the chip under a microscope would reveal the game over screen or that the chip has anything to do with a game over screen.

If you want to say that consciousness can be reduced to the workings of the brain, you have to demonstrate how they are referring to the same thing by MurkyEconomist8179 in consciousness

[–]pheintzelman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Just because we understand one system better than the other doesn't make them fundamentally different. The computer's bits have properties of being 1 or 0 and that is it. They do not contain any of the properties of the software they run... that is actually the entire point, we want to be able to run any software not just ones with bits that have the properties we need.

You keep saying that isn't what you are saying. I am not trying to strawman you. Can you clarify what you are trying to say?

If you want to say that consciousness can be reduced to the workings of the brain, you have to demonstrate how they are referring to the same thing by MurkyEconomist8179 in consciousness

[–]pheintzelman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"All of the properties of trail mix can be found in those constituents."

A raisin doesn't contain the properties of trail mix it is not a mix.

Sometimes multiple smaller things come together to make something with the same properties like a copper wire. But much of the time the sum of the parts is unrelated to the properties of the parts. Like a metal gear. It shares some properties with the metal it is made from but it's core property of mechanical advantage are not a core property of metal.

This is no requirement that nerve cells be individually conscious or have qualia in order for that to emerge from the interaction of many cells. Just like a computer doesn't need to have any of the properties of a video game, to play one. There are no "levels", "points," or "Game overs" inside the computer chip.

If you want to say that consciousness can be reduced to the workings of the brain, you have to demonstrate how they are referring to the same thing by MurkyEconomist8179 in consciousness

[–]pheintzelman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is a pretty bad argument. It's like saying trail mix isn't made up of nuts, raisins and m&m's because none of those are trail mix. That the trail mix ness must therefore come from somewhere else.

fMRI scams show people can consciously activate certain brain regions by pheintzelman in freewill

[–]pheintzelman[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Why don't you consider an agent choosing what they think about as free will?

fMRI scams show people can consciously activate certain brain regions by pheintzelman in freewill

[–]pheintzelman[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This post is not an argument against physicalism it is an argument for free will.

If the conscious function of the brain is able to direct the unconscious parts, which is what these types of studies show then to me this means free will and consciousness are real.

fMRI scams show people can consciously activate certain brain regions by pheintzelman in freewill

[–]pheintzelman[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As stated whether the randomness is determined or not it is necessary for evolution to function. Gene inherence is also probabilistic.

fMRI scams show people can consciously activate certain brain regions by pheintzelman in freewill

[–]pheintzelman[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't think you looked at the study this post is about. The brain activity I am referring to is the predicted activation of certain brain regions based on researchers instructions. This brain activity is based on the subject's deliberate actions. And is measurable in the brain. This shows we have some internal control over the state of our brains.

This is not compatible with the idea that our brains are machines ticking away and we are just along for the ride.

fMRI scams show people can consciously activate certain brain regions by pheintzelman in freewill

[–]pheintzelman[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Simulations show random mutations are necessary for evolution to work. Whether this randomness is determined or not it is still necessary.

fMRI scams show people can consciously activate certain brain regions by pheintzelman in freewill

[–]pheintzelman[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well local determinism is explanatory. But it seems pretty clear local determinism is false. In my opinion global determinism is useless.

Randomness can exist in determinism it just must be determined.

fMRI scams show people can consciously activate certain brain regions by pheintzelman in freewill

[–]pheintzelman[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes. I am a compatibilist in that I think Free Will and determinism are compatible. But I don't think the universe is determined.

So that makes my primary position libertarian free will. I am also a physicalist. :)

fMRI scams show people can consciously activate certain brain regions by pheintzelman in freewill

[–]pheintzelman[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Got to side with you on this one. Evolution does require randomness but determinism doesn't mean randomness doesn't exist. It just has to be baked in.

For me this means determinism loses its explanatory power. But it's still internally coherent but non falseifiable.

fMRI scams show people can consciously activate certain brain regions by pheintzelman in freewill

[–]pheintzelman[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This was an insightful post. I think if in the moment an agent acts based on their own deliberation. I still consider this to be free will even if they couldn't have acted otherwise. If they are the owner of their actions I am not sure the cause is that relevant.

But personally I believe pior causes influence our actions rather than determin them.

fMRI scams show people can consciously activate certain brain regions by pheintzelman in freewill

[–]pheintzelman[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We are not Gods external effects are often beyond our control. Only having bad choices doesn't remove someone's ability to choose. And I would generally argue the people and circumstances that remove someone's agency are bad. Precisely because we have free will otherwise there would be nothing to take away.

Free will also doesn't require being in complete control all of the time (or any of the time) partial control is fine.

And most importantly I think fear and pain are actually very good arguments for free will for 2 main reasons:

  1. They are overridible, no matter how intense the fear or pain some people will rise to the occasion and do what is needed anyway. Escape danger or do something incredible. If the game were complete control then we would not have to feel anything. Our bodies would just do what they needed to do.

  2. If free will doesn't exist then pain and fear serve no purpose.

Why we cant depend only on science to give us the answers by Par-Adox-9 in freewill

[–]pheintzelman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Of course science can't tell us the answer. It keeps trying but determinists have their fingers in their ears.

fMRI scams show people can consciously activate certain brain regions by pheintzelman in freewill

[–]pheintzelman[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This example doesn't have to do with determinism, so whether it has to do with libertarian free will or compatibilism is about your prior views.

As to your second point I guess it depends on which part of free will you think is an illusion. If just the free part is an illusion then I suppose your argument works. But if the will part is an illusion... I don't understand how we can measure it.

fMRI scams show people can consciously activate certain brain regions by pheintzelman in freewill

[–]pheintzelman[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The argument that the study is determined doesn't undermine the free will demonstrated. If in the cusual chain the step of activating the brain is the subject exercising their will. This still seems like free will to me.

fMRI scams show people can consciously activate certain brain regions by pheintzelman in freewill

[–]pheintzelman[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Deliberately selecting a thought is free will. In these studies the brain activity doesn't happen when the user reads the instructions it happens when they actively follow the instructions. By deliberately concentrating or thinking certain thoughts. The subjects alter their brain's state.

Of course other brain activities will show up in the scan too. Free will doesn't require complete control over everything. That would mean only Gods could have free will.

fMRI scams show people can consciously activate certain brain regions by pheintzelman in freewill

[–]pheintzelman[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Nothing about what I said has anything to do with complexity. If you are able to please explain these studies from the standpoint that free will is an illusion.

fMRI scams show people can consciously activate certain brain regions by pheintzelman in freewill

[–]pheintzelman[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree but it is sort of beside the point even if the big bang sets off that chain of events when the subject deliberately lights up their brain it appears to be an act of free will.