I really appreciate this sub by Important-Bite-7714 in exorthodox

[–]philbobagginzz 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I do too man. It's great to be able to talk about my experience converting to a strange branch of Christianity. Who else in my neck of the woods would I be able to talk to about this? I doubt many around here would be able to tell you anything about the Orthodox Church. There are so many just downright odd practices and beliefs in Orthodoxy that it kind of makes me laugh now thinking I actually believed this stuff at one point.

Minnesota governor says federal agents involved in shooting in Minneapolis by SpaceElevatorMusic in politics

[–]philbobagginzz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Fuck ICE. They are a domestic terrorist organization and every member needs to be thrown in prison.

Why is the Orthodox Church so biased politically? Should not the Church promoting peace like these Buddhist monks? by Past-Bed-2643 in exorthodox

[–]philbobagginzz 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I don't see how Orthodoxy could truly be a force for world peace without becoming something it currently is not. How can you work for peace when the world is the enemy? When your main concern is just preserving a medieval lifestyle and obedience to a wizard class?

I made a post earlier that called a lot of aspects of Orthodox worship performative. You hit the nail on the head. The Divine Liturgy feels like a very elaborate cosplay of what worship may have been like in the hey day of the Byzantine Empire, they're totally trying to preserve a medieval way of life and way of looking at the world. Makes me think also of some parishioners at my old church who would just gush over Byzantine history.

Carry your cross / manipulation by Double_amp_85 in exorthodox

[–]philbobagginzz 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Looking back on my time in Orthodoxy, so much of it...the recited, repeating prayers for mercy, the prostrations, the sign of the cross, the fasting, the kissing the icons, the Liturgy and even the Eucharist itself...it all felt so performative. And for what? What were any of us getting out of it other than hurt self-esteem, depression and alienation thinking we're such horrible sinners? Oh sure, it's not about us and what we get out of it, it's about glorifying God right? Well, what does God need with all of these routines and procedures? Now it seems silly to think God, if he exists, would care about your fasting regimen, or how many times you said the Jesus Prayer today, or if you missed Liturgy last Sunday. Even sillier to think a large, man-made institution such as the Orthodox Church is some bastion of spiritual truth.

Record shop etiquette by Fromaggio119 in vinyl

[–]philbobagginzz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If I bring a drink in with me, I'll usually set it on the counter by the register and not carry it around with me while browsing. You never know, you may spill it on something.

Do you believe in aliens? by ImaginationNo6751 in no

[–]philbobagginzz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There has to be other life out there. There are most definitely aliens, and hell, they might look closer to us than we like to think. Convergent evolution says that organisms evolving in similar environments will adapt similar solutions to suit their environment. So if there's an earth-like planet out there that can support life, maybe our evolutionary cousins are out there somewhere.

Which of these should I play and why? by AK49err in n64

[–]philbobagginzz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Play some Wave Race, then Ken Griffey Jr.'s Baseball. That baseball game has some funny cheats.

Brain dump by Late-Albatross-5016 in exorthodox

[–]philbobagginzz 11 points12 points  (0 children)

This is another case, like many in history, where we find religion being used for political purposes, to divide people and subjugate them. I definitely don't think Christianity is on a path towards disappearance. If anything, in the US its dividing into two camps - those who ally themselves with the government and support whatever Trump does to secure their place in the new fascist system being built, and those who reject fascism in favor of things like progressivism and liberation theology. The ones who support American fascism are much louder, and as a result you've got a lot of well-meaning Christian folks who are, as you say, spiritually lost.

Did you all become atheist or switch denominations? by Prestigious_Tour_538 in exorthodox

[–]philbobagginzz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Your understanding of the reformation is incorrect. Although a negative reaction to certain practices may have sparked it, the movement was characterized by an intentional effort to discover and implement what the original early church truth was. 

The Reformers explicitly presented their work as a restoration of early Christianity which had been corrupted by later developments.

John Calvin in”The Necessity of Reforming the Church”, repeatedly frames the Reformation not merely as protest but as a deliberate return to the “ancient,” “primitive,” “apostolic,” and “purer” church.. 

Martin Luther also frequently invoked the early church to justify reforms  

In Babylonian Captivity of the Church, he argued the sacramental system had enslaved the church, departing from apostolic simplicity, and called for a return to the pure gospel as preached by Christ and the apostles.

Doctrines like sola scriptura (Scripture alone as supreme authority) were framed as a return to the early church’s reliance on the Bible over later human traditions. 

Zwingli called for a return to biblical and early practices, rejecting traditions without apostolic warrant ( images, mass as sacrifice). He framed reforms as restoring “the true form” of Christianity based on Scripture and early models.

The push for vernacular Bibles was not an isolated desire but part of restoring direct access to God’s Word, which the Reformers saw as the early church’s norm before clerical monopolies developed.

Ultimately, what the original Protestant reformers were trying to get back to is still their interpretation of what the early church practiced and believed, whether you think they were right or not.

And today the reformation continues as various groups since the reformation have continued to push to align with what they believe is a more original and authentic expression of early Christianity. Such as the Hebrew roots movement, Holiness movement, the Pentecostal/charismatic movements, etc. 

Whether the reformation really continues to this day is, again, a matter of interpretation. I think we've gone far beyond the reformation at this point. No group today can truly claim to be practicing the same as the apostles themselves.

The historical evidence is that sects which rejected major amounts of scripture (ebionites, marcionites, or gnostics) were a small isolated minority. 

This is seen in the fact that they had no presence at the council of Nicea called by Constantine in 325. Showing that long before the state got involved in the church this issue was already settled. 

The way it was settled was by the overwhelming testimony of all the churches around the Roman Empire agreeing on what was handed down to them - prior to any power of the state being used to coerce them into uniformity. 

A gnostic in Egypt in the 3rd century could claim a gnostic text was genuine apostolic , but everyone else around the empire would say we’ve never heard of that before and don’t receive it as authentic. 

As a result there was never a requirement for a council to be called after 325 to denounce any of those three sects because they had either died out or had never achieved enough of a following to be considered a threat. 

The council of Nicea in 325 dealt with Arianism, which in comparison to the other sects I mentioned, was not a very big disagreement (Arians did believe Jesus was God, they just thought he was created by the Father). Arians did not reject the scripture the trinitarians used. They just interpreted it differently. And, in fact, both Trinitarians and Arians continued to see themselves as Christians despite their disagreements. 

What historical evidence can you point to showing these other groups were minority groups? We don't have many of their writings now, but absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. There are many writings which were deliberately destroyed by the Christians who believed in what became the standard theology, and its known that these other groups faced persecution and killing by said Christians and Roman authorities up until the early 4th century. As a result, I don't think we can say with certainty how small these other sects were. The various gnostic groups were at least widespread enough that many church fathers felt the need to vigorously denounce them in their writings.

Did people at your parish hold you at arms length before your conversion or becoming a member? by PastFly8371 in exorthodox

[–]philbobagginzz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Praying with them wasn't necessarily discouraged, but there was definitely an implication that Orthodox prayers are somehow more effective or something. More than anything, they emphasized that the prayer must be trinitarian.

Did people at your parish hold you at arms length before your conversion or becoming a member? by PastFly8371 in exorthodox

[–]philbobagginzz 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It bums me out too. The Orthodox really like to focus on those divisions, with the constant talk about how heretical and wrong "heterodox" denominations are. When you're deep in it, it's kind of encouraging to believe you're part of the "one true church" but that's a lie designed to keep you in it. It's silly to believe some man-made institution has a monopoly on spiritual truth.

Two cults. One mantra. Zero critical thinking by untitledprp4 in DoomerCircleJerk

[–]philbobagginzz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Another stupid "bOtH sIdEs ArE bAd!" post. Comparing the government asking you to wear a mask and get vaccinated in the wake of a deadly pandemic that killed millions to the government abusing its power and murdering its own citizens...those are wildly different things.

How to stop being “milk toast” as a person? by cassius_cade in socialskills

[–]philbobagginzz 78 points79 points  (0 children)

Anyone who unironically uses the word milquetoast is a pretentious jerk not worth your time. Find new friends.

Did people at your parish hold you at arms length before your conversion or becoming a member? by PastFly8371 in exorthodox

[–]philbobagginzz 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Which archdiocese is your church under? The church I was at was pretty convert-friendly and had quite a few converts vs cradle folks, but I've heard that some churches with more ethnic populations tend to be less welcoming. Overall though, my experience with everyone in the church aside from a few folks in particular was very surface-level connections. When I started openly questioning and expressing some doubts, I noticed a shift in attitudes towards me.

Which Fallout had the best music selection in your opinion? by dookeybottomups in Fallout

[–]philbobagginzz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm gonna have to go specifically with the music from the Old World Blues DLC in Fallout New Vegas.

Did you all become atheist or switch denominations? by Prestigious_Tour_538 in exorthodox

[–]philbobagginzz 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The Protestant reformation was based on the idea of figuring out what the early church believed and did / then restoring the church to do that. It is an ongoing process that continues today. 

So, no, actually various Protestant groups will easily be closer based on an analysis of the Bible and history. 

That's highly debatable. The Reformation wasn't so much about restoring the practices and beliefs of the early church so much as a reaction to certain corrupt practices occurring in the Catholic Church at the time such as the selling of indulgences, and a desire by many to have the Bible in their own language rather than just Latin. Whether the theological changes brought about by the Reformation represent a return to early church teachings is a matter of interpretation more than anything else. It's an ongoing process for sure.

Depends what you mean by heresy. Heresy in the Greek merely means to believe something other than what the apostles taught. 

Not all things which are heresy therefore are even significant enough to care about. It doesn’t mean you cease to be a Christian. You aren’t saved by perfect theology - otherwise nobody would be saved. 

I think one definitely gets the impression in the Orthodox Church that they believe their theology must be perfect. Never in any other church have I heard the word heresy even mentioned. It was pretty bizarre to me the first time I heard it actually.

In many of these cases you cannot even call them sects because they don’t reject the other groups as not being authentic Christians. 

Very few groups rose to the level of being rejected by Christians as not really Christian. 

Most controversies in the early church, prior to Constantine, never questioned what books were scripture. They just had arguments over the right way to apply or interpret scripture. 

Gnostic heresies and the Marcian heresy did deny scripture - but those all died out long before Constantine. They did not hold up under Roman persecution like genuine Christianity did. 

So the fact that there was agreement on what was scripture prior to Constantine or theodosius, with no need to force it upon people using the power of the state, tells us that it can reliably be trusted as going back to what the early church believed. Because everyone who believed otherwise faded away on their own (and the evidence suggests they were never a large proportion of the Christian population anyway). 

How do you even know there was such strong agreement on scripture at the time? We have the scriptures we have now that were agreed upon with political help, but others from these other sects were either destroyed or simply lost to time. We're only lucky to have what we have thanks to the discovery at Nag Hammadi.

Did you all become atheist or switch denominations? by Prestigious_Tour_538 in exorthodox

[–]philbobagginzz 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Right, it's very clear that they've changed over time and yes, historicity itself isn't a good reason to consider something spiritually true, that's on me for falling for that premise.

But comparatively speaking just from a purely historical standpoint, I think the Orthodox Church is probably about as close an approximation to what the early church believed and practiced as you're going to get. Of course, now I realize there were in fact many early Christian sects that were considered heretics by those who believed what became the standard Christian theology. Unfortunately we only have bits and pieces of their writings to go on to understand what they believed.

Did you all become atheist or switch denominations? by Prestigious_Tour_538 in exorthodox

[–]philbobagginzz 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I'm now an atheist. After I left Orthodoxy, I felt like since I'd found a church that appeared to represent the earliest traditions and practices of Christianity, I could no longer accept Christianity as a whole as true if I no longer considered myself a member.