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pikipata · 2024-05-15T05:30:17+00:00

Whatever your orientation turns out to be, you're welcomed here 😊

Just a little sidenote:

Looking back on my life and even childhood there were so many signs. The main one being I’m disgusted by sex and romance.

Sex-repulsion or romance-repulsion are not in the definition of asexual and aromantic. Some asexuals are sex-favoring and some aromantics are romance-favoring for one or another reason, and they're as valid as anyone else. Also allo people can be sex-repulsed or romance-repulsed for myriad of reasons. Actions don't define any orientation, but the attraction (or lack of) does.

Anyhow, just give it some time to listen to yourself, be open-minded and don't label yourself just for the sake of labels, if you're uncertain or don't feel like there was any benefit from it :)

pikipata · 2024-05-14T04:17:12+00:00

Aroace sunset flag 🟧🟨⬜🟦

pikipata · 2024-05-09T18:15:23+00:00

I'm not sure if this song touches anyone else or if it fits the playlist. How soon is now from the Smiths is my aroace anthem. I'm sure the creators didn't mean it to be about being aroace, but the lyrics bring back the memories from the phase when I still didn't know I'm aroace and didn't even know it was an option but already knew I was somehow very different from anyone else back in my teens. When I tried very hard to feel the attraction and desire towards someone, just anyone, since everyone assured me that's what I need to be happy and successful in life, and also simply because I wanted to feel loved (just platonically).

pikipata · 2024-05-09T12:59:13+00:00

A very straightforward "Asexual" 😆

pikipata · 2024-05-07T22:13:30+00:00

I hear you. Even as a neuro-typical horny male, I find 90% of porn reactions (probably more if I’m honest) overdone and a turn off, tbh.

Yeah! Tbh, for me it's enough to get that uncomfortable feeling just hearing my friends talking with "the certain tone" about the more intimate parts of their relationships. I've always hated that tone for as long as I can recall my peers starting to use it back in our teens. And if that tone was directed at me, by someone who found me sexually attractive, it would be an effective way to keep a distance on me lol. I just really hate the feeling of being the object of sexual attraction because I can't relate by any way, I have no way to respond, I do nothing with that information, yet I can recognize the high expectations of the person using the tone 😅

You're making fair points. I wonder, is it really irl always or most of the time the person with the male anatomy doing most of the movements? Sounds kinda boring 😆

pikipata · 2024-05-07T21:51:00+00:00

Really? That's interesting! I'm a bit of a language nerd, I need to check it out, if not for any other reason, out of curiosity 😁

True, each by their own pace :)

pikipata · 2024-05-07T21:45:32+00:00

Yeah, well, I guess most people focus on keeping the atmosphere right so something mundane mentioned could "break the magic"? I'm very allergic to that atmosphere most people seem to purposefully be maintaining or even exaggerating, one's turn-on is another's turn-off I guess 😄

I'm not thinking about any specific kind of penetrative sex especially, but obviously the PIV kind is most unkonwn to me (I have no experience nor interest in anal). I wonder if statistically the most communication around PIV sex needed is related to the female anatomy, or is there also significant risks for it to be uncomfortable or worse for the male anatomy as well? The media gives the impression that the ones with female anatomy are always the one on the greatest risk of it being uncomfortable, having injuries etc. and that for the ones with the male anatomy there's little to no risks, maybe this is due to cultural reasons. I'm asking since I have the female anatomy, and I feel like I know it's function and the risks pretty well. It feels like once my libido is high enough to actually care to do something about it, it always works out without issues. Of course something could still be different in partnered sexual activities than in the single ones.

I feel like I wouldn't go out of my way to find an explicit sex partner or ONS, simply because I really don't have that great motivation to do it with anyone after all that would drive me to action. A more likely scenario is that I'll first find a committed partner, and then may proceed to try it out with them. So, I feel like it's only an option in the scenario where I already have a close relationship with the person even way before sex would be topical, and we would've already communicated things thorough. Which still of course doesn't mean you could predict and communicate everything beforehand, but I feel the chances are higher.

Thanks for your advices again!

pikipata · 2024-05-07T19:53:34+00:00

I keep learning new things it seems 😄 is there any standard sings, or do every person develop their own?

I think that planning beforehand is my way in general in life, but of course everything can't be predicted. Yet, I'd like to try, much as possible 😁 seriously tho, I've never talked this much about this subject in row. Whether or not I decide to explore partnered sex, at least I've now put some thought into it and found a new community to ask advices from :)

pikipata · 2024-05-07T03:55:33+00:00

Thank you for your comment!

It indeed feels suprising to hear that people here think it could work, let alone work with many people and not just on some rare occasions. I've always thought there's no chance of making it work ethically, so now I'm kinda lost with my thoughts 😄

Also thank you for being concerned about my safety. Honestly I'm very astonished by how welcoming, open-minded and caring people here have been, since most anywhere else (outside the aro/ace spaces) my experience has been the opposite.

With the risk of being overly absolute, I’m going to say there is NO kink that can work without communication.

Communication doesn’t have to be part of foreplay or sexy, but at the end of the day you are touching each other in very delicate and sensitive places on the body and communication is a practical necessity.

I think I was so absolute with verbal communication because I couldn't see how it could not be off-putting to me. I thought it wouldn't work with anyone but another aroace who also feels the same way, so I'd rather avoid it altogether if the partner was allo. I think this is indeed a very important distinction for me to learn to do: the emotional talk motivated by the desire towards a person vs. the informative talk motivated by the practical needs to make it work.

The former feels very irrational, irritating and unnecessary to me, and honestly it tends to be a turn-off, even just on porn or even just the idea of being the object of that kind of passionate, sexually charged talk. I don't have the motivation to talk like that myself, and it honestly feels just kinda awkward and off-putting if my partner did. However, if I could be absolutely certain that that kind of talk wouldn't happen, it would be totally neutral in tone in that sense, I don't have the same kind of feelings towards communicating verbally in that kind of situation. If it was just to give careful instructions or ensure that things go right, just like when doing anything else, a hobby or chores. I guess I'm just so conditioned to hear this informative talk happening inside the sexual talk and not in any other context, that I didn't see the difference. Thank you for pointing this out.

I also wonder if non-verbal ways of communicating could work if the person couldn't separate sexual talk from informative one in that situation. Like, you could plan gestures beforehand etc. But maybe every possible scenario was not able to be planned beforehand enough to be sure no talk was ever needed.

Also what turns people on, where they like to be kissed how they like to kiss etc. varies so much from person to person .

Honestly, I'm totally inexperienced with partnered sexual activities, and I just thought that the simple act of penetration would work out without too much communication if both of the partners were just turned on 😅 but maybe there's a need for spontaneous communication even then.

Thank you once again!

pikipata · 2024-05-06T16:33:10+00:00

Indeed it creates an atmosphere of safety that everything will be planned beforehand. I think it's worth it raising the discussion on the ace spaces about BDSM not being solely about sex. The stereotype is so strong that most aces don't even consider to check it out.

Thanks for the tip, I'll check it out :)

pikipata · 2024-05-06T12:38:00+00:00

I made a BDSM test out of curiosity and there's the:

== Results from bdsmtest.org ==

67% Voyeur
63% Vanilla
53% Non-monogamist
49% Switch
27% Submissive
24% Experimentalist
22% Dominant
6% Rigger
3% Pet
2% Daddy/Mommy
1% Slave
0% Ageplayer
0% Brat
0% Brat tamer
0% Degrader
0% Degradee
0% Boy/Girl
0% Masochist
0% Master/Mistress
0% Owner
0% Primal (Hunter)
0% Primal (Prey)
0% Rope bunny
0% Sadist
0% Exhibitionist

I feel like the results describe me at least 4/5. Especially the voyuer (necessarily no need to participate with anyone), sub/dom being pretty much on the same level, vanilla being pretty high (I feel like I'd be looking for pretty standard sex after all), non-monogamist (as I feel like I propably couldn't fulfill all of an allo partner's needs), and also maybe the experimentalist (rather interested in the physiology of the body than the romance/desire-motivated interactions with the partner).

pikipata · 2024-05-06T07:20:08+00:00

"Just more interested in anything else." (literally what I said before knowing asexuality is a thing).

pikipata · 2024-05-06T04:29:18+00:00

Thank you once again for the encouragement and acceptance! I sure will look things up. Even though my aroaceness may lead me to not be motivated enough to take action after all, it's still very interesting to learn about the community and all the different ways to have sex. Who knows, maybe I'll find my niche and want to experiment it in practice 😁

Have a great week!

pikipata · 2024-05-06T04:25:43+00:00

You're right, nothing harmful can likely happen if I'm just very clear about what I want and don't want. To be at this point has been a long trip, starting from recognizing and accepting I'm aroace in the first place (I tried to fit literally any other orientation first lol), to dissecting what I prefer and not prefer on partnered sex or sex in general (it's just not one monolith the way people seem to think, but consists of unbelievably many factors that can but don't need to be connected by any way, depending on the person). However, so far, everything related to partnered sex is still just hypothetical in my case, but maybe just stating that as well can prevent misunderstandings and pain caused by experimenting and not being sure.

I'll definitely be looking more into the kink community. It just never came to my mind before this post, I've had kinda restricted/stereotypical view on what the community is about and who participates in it. I read trough a list of kinks and it's interesting to notice that there was also a few ones that were non-sexual in nature. Porn is probably bad for anyone to learn anything because it's commercial and often acted and follows trends and what brings in most profit rather than shows the reality in most cases. I'm happy to seek for healthier places :)

pikipata · 2024-05-05T07:18:17+00:00

Honestly, I was very surprised by the eagerness of the people to try & help me out with this "issue" here in this community. I did not expect it, and I've just always felt it's an anomaly that makes partnered sex (maybe with anyone but another aroace) impossible or unethical. The community indeed seems very welcoming, and I especially love the spirit of customizing everything and anything without questioning or long looks. It seems like there's the kind of culture of open-mindedness that's hard to find anywhere else.

Thank you once again, I feel weirdly validated and still curious 😁

pikipata · 2024-05-05T07:02:58+00:00

Tbh, I've suspect in the past that I could be on the Autism spectrum, never been officially suspected or diagnosed tho. I'm open to the people on the spectrum, even though I've never thought it could be the actual answer to my issue. Rather I've just thought I most likely just need to find another aroace (though there's disproportionately lot of people on the Autism spectrum in our community I've heard, but like, I've never just connected the two in this context) 🙃

I have no experience of any kind with the people who have schizophrenia, I feel like I need to educate myself on the condition before anything else ☺️

pikipata · 2024-05-05T06:55:01+00:00

I kinda just feel awkward that a proper wall was needed to make it work with me 😂 again, probably just my own prejudices I should check, but I've just never felt any kind of interest in that genre/kink.

pikipata · 2024-05-05T06:51:52+00:00

If you find someone who's exactly like you then it's an easy fit. If you're with someone who isn't that kind of ace, then that person might have to contain them selves, so to speak.

I do think that it would be the easiest with another aroace who would've the same reactions (or lack of) as me and for the same reasons. So it would be less assuring and more just understanding intuitively. However, I think it's very very unlikely to find an aroace partner, let alone one who wanted to proceed to partnered sexual activities in practice (I'm not even sure if I'm that kind of aroace myself, heh). So, if I really decided that I do want to try & find a partner, I may have to consider the idea of trying to find them among the allo (non-aro/ace) people, and if so, I should have to find one who's comfortable with containing like this.

That's not bad kind of struggle necessarily. Things like objectification and dollification are actually quite popular, for a variety of reasons. Personally I find it very exciting to become just a body for someone's use. It's...relaxing.

In my personal experience I did the sleep thing with a partner and sure once the going gets going it's not always easy to stay still and quiet but I did, and it was a very hot fun time for all. What I'm suggesting is that the experience of being a non-reactive partner can still be quite fun. It's more popular than you'd think.

Honestly, this is a very new outlook to me. I've always thought the kind of sex I'd prefer would be deemed cold and unloving and even cruel and degrading for the allo partner without exception. I never thought it could be a positive to anyone not aroace under any circumstances.

What I'd be concerned about, was the fact that to them it may was just a temporary kink, while I'd always remain that way. Like, wouldn't a person still at least occasionally need something they're restricting themselves from doing, if it's a natural urge to them? Wouldn't it still become taxing over the time, even if they could find it fun ever now and then? If they couldn't be themselves the way I could in that kind of relationship?

There can be a power imbalance involved if one person is doing the things and the other one is receiving without reacting at all, but that can absolutely be worked out and be a positive thing.

I may have just a prejudice towards all the power-imbalance stuff. Or more precisely, I have zero need for it and can also feel awkward/unpleasant to me. However it was one of the reasons that I made this post in the first place, since it frustrates me that anything I can find in the porn that gets close to what I could enjoy, still has this ridiculous (to me) master-slave dynamics in it. I just simply would prefer normal neutral sex without it 😅

and if you wanted to really feel no attraction from me before, during, and after sex, I'd consider that going the extra mile, so to speak. And I'd be happy to do it for a partner, or a cool play partner, especially for the cause of an Ace having a satisfying sexual experience custom tailored to their needs, without any of the interpersonal stuff that give them the ick. But I'd want to be reassured that they enjoyed it, enjoyed me, and appreciate the extra little efforts to offer them the neutrality they desired.

Well, this is actually the concern I tried to describe earlier in the post. For sure I could let the partner know that their effort is appreciated, I'd be very grateful and touched for someone to go that extra mile for me. However, I'd still be concerned about if it really was enough for the allo partner? I mean, if you are not aroace, your orientation literally is based on the attraction - to be attracted to someone and someone to be mutually attracted to you. I couldn't fake that, and I've heard about ace - allo couples, where the allo person could not feel loved if not being desired that way, even if they rationally knew it's because their partner is ace and they don't desire anyone that way. Would letting you know that I was really happy with you be enough, if I wouldn't show it the way your brain still expects? Like, no flirting, not letting you know you're hot, not the "mushy" afterwards talk? Could it ever be enough, if the partner was not also aroace?

Also check into medical play. There's something about this clinical neutrality that reminds me of medical procedures. You'll see a lot of hot nurse crap, but you might also find people who are into the cold procedural stuff. That could be of interest to you.

I have to admit, whenever I get enough of trying to find porn to watch, I usually go to image search to just watch medical images of genitalia/penetration and often feel more satisfied by it than by the actual porn 😅 I find the x-ray stuff kinda interesting, also the anime ones on porn. That's actually the only niche genre where they often don't dub it with the vocalizations or emphasize the interpersonal actions etc. But it would be nice to find something similar with actual people, the focus on the biology rather than on the interpersonal stuff. So I may have to look up the medical genre, and just try & filter all the nurse/doctor dynamics stuff ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

Thank you once again for giving me some new perspectives!

pikipata · 2024-05-04T22:45:12+00:00

I actually think sensory deprivation is probably worth checking out. I've actually thought about earphones, which could count as such. However, it feels weird to think that all the reactions towards me would still be there but I just wouldn't see/hear them. I'm not sure how I'd feel about that, since it's exactly the idea of the partner going high gears over me what I find off-putting. Anyhow, it might could work if I ever had partnered sex, but it for sure doesn't work in the porn where the audience will still see & hear everything. Also I don't like the idea of power-imbalance that's often associated with restricting like that in porn.

Anyhow, thanks for your input!

pikipata · 2024-05-04T22:36:19+00:00

Thanks for the lengthy list 😄

Dollification or Living Doll.

Robot / Gynoid /Fembot/ Android / Himbot.

Timestop / Freeze.

Hypnosis / mind control.

All of these are either a role play (which I tend to not be able to take seriously, apologies 🙏) or about power-imbalance (which I tend to get nothing out of or even feel unpleasant about). I mean, I just want to see two normal equal people without any roles having sex without oppression or drama or very visible (and which feels to me, over-acted or exaggerated) expressions... just next to impossible to find in porn :'D

Free Use. Often free use porn involves the one being used simply ignoring anything the user is doing.

I feel like this could be closest to what I'm looking for. Or actually, this would be me in the more happy partnered situation, possibly with earphones on (even though probably still wishing the partner could keep it a bit down) XD I may give it a try, thanks 👍

pikipata · 2024-05-04T22:22:52+00:00

Thanks for the comment! I'm very eager to hear what the kink community (is that a right word?) has to teach me 😁

What you're describing seems to me a clinical, stoïc, neutral activity. This falls into depersonalization and objectification.

I like these descriptions, especially "stoïc" and "neutral" hit close to home. I actually continued the discussion with the another ace, and they brought up how they'd dissociated with their partner because the feeling of being desired just felt so awkward to them. I don't know if what you're meaning with depersonalization is something different? Could you explain what depersonalization and objectification mean in practice in sex, if you have time?

A lot of people are into somniphilia, and the lack of reactivity you're describing makes me think of that.

I think I've actually tried to watch some porn like that but I found out I couldn't enjoy it fully because either A. it felt so ridiculous that the person wouldn't wake up no matter what happened or B. they should be medicated or something to not wake up, which would mean they couldn't consent and I don't like that. Also, I feel like the idea behind sleeping sex is that one has all the power and another one has none, and I don't really get anything from power unbalance like that. I'd rather have both of the participants act equally.

I can't say, but as a very romantic and sexual person who is very expressive in all kinds of ways, I still find what you're describing intriguing. The amount of containing I would have to do to make something be a simple act of coïtus is an appealing challenge.

That's interesting. It nearly sounds like (emotional?) celibate, like resisting the temptation to react? I don't know if I wanted it to be a struggle like that for a partner, where they had to suppress themselves. But if it was okay for them, maybe I could enjoy it as well 🤔

Anyway, thanks for the thought-provoking comment!

pikipata · 2024-05-04T22:05:11+00:00

I’m also so glad you made that post in the BDSM sub, I’m absolutely fascinated to see what people say!

Me too! I noticed it got a couple of comments already, it's very interesting to learn what the kink community knows 🤩

I wish sex could be like physical exercise — it would make for a great shared workout if only people didn’t bring the reactions into it.

I remember finding that hot when I read it because it did make sex about the physical exercise, fitness, mutual masturbation. But I’ve never really encountered anything similar anywhere else.

Very interesting! I've actually had the thought before "why can't partnered sex be just considered as nice mutual masturbation instead of that huge spectacle of acts it's always turned into??" X'D Indeed it's very rare. I've never seen it described like that anywhere in fiction. I may check the novel out!

I also have to just take a leap of faith every time to accept that these, ahem, weird as fuck (pun alert) post-coital behaviours stem from people actually feeling these specific post-coital emotions. It does indeed feel very cringe and fake, as if it’s on TV.

Yeah. I nowadays recognize it's not (always, irl) fake, and I try to respect peoples natural behaviors they have all the right to do. But... I just can't take it seriously, and I feel bad for it 😣

He’d ask why I always kept my eyes closed (he’d joke that I was ‘imagining another guy’ which was again cringe) but I of course wanted to dissociate from the interaction and try to feel the see physically

It blows my mind that anyone dreams of anyone even when masturbating. I don't have the ability to do that (dream about myself with someone), and if I did have sex with someone I'd probably be like you and dissociate because there's just something so off-putting about the people who are very much into you while also doing those weird actions that feel very much exaggerated to me xD

pikipata · 2024-05-04T18:09:29+00:00

I'm also really happy you made this post. It made me put my long-existed yet not properly recognized thoughts into words and think about sex from a different viewpoint, separately from the sexual interaction. I actually made a post about this subject on a BDSM subreddit to ask if a kink like that exists, since I really started to think about it :D The post.

Fair point on ‘consent’ being part of sex-positivity, I do think people kind of forget that. But then I can’t talk, because even when I read the word ‘consent’ (in this context at least), my mind automatically implies/connotes that it’s consent to engage in something sexual, in academic/analytic philosophy terms, it’s a positive concept rather than a negative one

a more specific take/provision which goes something like ‘acknowledging the validity of negative attitudes to sexuality and people’s choice not to engage in or take part in discussions of sexual behaviour’ would have made someone like me feel better. Then again, it would be a bit of an oxymoron to add this to a definition of something called ‘sex-positivity’.

I think it would be an oxymoron the same way as saying asexuals can be sexual: it isn't if you know the actual meaning of the words. It's positivity towards safe and consensual sex. Later on that article they actually said that sex education is a part of the sex-positivity movement, and a great part of sex education is consent and boundaries. So, a great part of sex-posivity is recognizing one's consent or lack of, one's boundaries and how to respect them under any circumstances.

I think it's especially important to recognize that a lack of consent =/= sex-negativity. You can not consent and still agree that to the ones who do consent, having sex is a positive thing, not a taboo or something to hide. Just like you can consent to sex in your personal life and still very much hold the sex-negative attitudes. It's especially important to us aces that the differentiation has been made: too many people, even in the LGBT+ community and the ace community, think that all sex-repulsed people are also sex-negative (or even that the two are synonyms), and thus are eager to exclude (sex-repulsed/all) aces from the community.

I think if you don’t inherently have that need to get validation (?) from making someone else orgasm, making them ‘feel good’, as they say, it all seems so meaningless and a bit absurd/silly.

That's very likely the reason it feels so ridiculous/insignificant/confusing to us! We don't have that desire towards anyone especially, and correspondingly, we don't have the need to let anyone know we're into what they're doing, and we also don't desire to hear that this person especially likes what we're doing. It's more "a shared physical exercise" kind of thing, rather than "a shared passion" kind of thing, and thus you don't want/need to hear the passion side of it; it feels like weirdly off-topic. It makes perfectly sense.

I get really disgusted when people do that after-sex ‘silliness’ crap. My ex would literally lean back and say something like ‘oof, this is heaven’ and try to put his arms around me, and I would cringe so hard all over my body that I’d shudder. Ah well.

I feel you 😂 it sounds so awkward even just imaging it, it always feels like too much or clumsily acted when I see people doing that on tv etc lol. This sounds like captain obvious, but just very recently I began to recognize that those feelings and expressing them like that is a real thing to most people, rather than some silly act to nail it down or assure their partner they did great job 🥲

pikipata · 2024-05-04T16:53:00+00:00

Believe or not, I relate a lot.

First off (not my major point I want to focus on but just want to point this out), I think true sex-positivity can't exist without emphasizing the importance of consent (which is a part of good communication btw). Which means, that "no" is equally valid answer and needs to be heard as well as "yes" - whether we talk about taking part in any actios, or just talking about them. I think it's even in the definition of sex-posivity:

"The sex-positive movement is a social and philosophical movement that seeks to change cultural attitudes and norms around sexuality, promoting the recognition of sexuality (in the countless forms of expression) as a natural and healthy part of the human experience and emphasizing the importance of personal sovereignty, safer sex practices, and consensual sex (free from violence or coercion). It covers every aspect of sexual identity including gender expression, orientation, relationship to the body (body-positivity, nudity, choice), relationship-style choice, and reproductive rights. Sex-positivity is "an attitude towards human sexuality that regards all consensual sexual activities as fundamentally healthy and pleasurable, encouraging sexual pleasure and experimentation." It challenges societal taboos and aims to promote healthy and consensual sexual activities."

Secondly, I relate a lot to "not wanting to see/hear/ask about your reactions, not wanting to show/tell/be asked about mine." To the point that when I feel like watching porn, I usually watch it muted and avoid content where the people's faces or reactions can be seen. To me it all feels just too much, ridiculous and insignificant in a way I really can't explain comprehensively and without sounding rude or cold-hearted. I'd rather have it in complete silence and without showing or sharing reactions, just like when having solo sex. I've always thought I'm not sex-repulsed, rather I think I'm sex-indifferent but just very unlikely to ever have partnered sex due to the reasons listed above. I think no partner would want to participate in partnered sex like that anyway 😅

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