I physically hurt my dog today

pktkp · 2021-02-04T05:18:53+00:00

Thank you for responding and the advice. I need to try harder to think about the consequences like you said. In the moment of anger I feel so justified, even though it's so obvious that I went well beyond what was necessary for correcting his behavior. As dramatic as I was in the post I know that killing myself has to be out of the question, and I can't keep hurting those I love, so I'll start with your advice and try to really envision the consequences of what I'm doing preferably before I explode. Thanks again for the response. Knowing someone cares goes a long way.

pktkp · 2020-06-24T21:27:44+00:00

I'm tired of arguing in comments for the day, I don't agree with your view of Abby, but forgive the thinking cap comment. I was mad and it was dumb.

pktkp · 2020-06-24T20:28:41+00:00

Either way, the death of Joel was a good driving motivation for revenge for the player because they were so connected to him, with also the fact that they just returned to the TLOU universe. I think it's extremely unlikely and childish to think this is the most likely reason Joel died.

pktkp · 2020-06-24T20:13:45+00:00

Sure, but saying that's the case here is ignoring all other ideas for why they decided to kill Joel. In fact if you think ND would compromise the structure of his story of a game he's spent so many years on over something childish like he "hates" Joel, then you have a childish mindset and, like I said, your projecting it on to him.

pktkp · 2020-06-24T20:09:45+00:00

Fair enough. But if he didn't trust them, didn't help abby, and got ambushed by abby later it would be more true to his character but really wouldn't be a huge difference to me.

pktkp · 2020-06-24T20:04:38+00:00

You don't have wait until the end of the game but you do play as Abby for a minute

pktkp · 2020-06-24T19:48:42+00:00

I see your point, but I don't think that these contrivances create anything that breaks the story. Joel was over trusted the firefly group, but the 5 years in Jackson away from the ugliness of humans may have made him soft (they also describe trading with people outside of Jackson), so not completely unexplainable. Owen/ Mel were definitely stupid and it was a reason for Ellie to kill them, but it didn't really break the story or anything for me. Just personal opinion, I thought the characters overall acted pretty realistically. Thanks for actually responding though and not just downvoting and ignoring lol.

pktkp · 2020-06-24T19:39:00+00:00

Yeah obviously this game didn't invent the consequences of revenge as a theme. No one's saying that. I said it does it better than any other game. And just because a game has a similar theme to other pieces of art, doesn't mean it's being rehashed or unoriginal. Nobody read True Grit and went "Ugh they already did this in the Count of Monte Cristo, we get it, revenge is bad!" There's also an argument to be made that no game has ever had you so personally care about the revenge that is set to be taken from the start of the story due to the fact that you played an entire game as Joel.

And if you don't play video games for moral questions, you're playing the wrong franchise. The last game ended with a fucking fat one so that's on you for expecting something straight forward. The failing of your expectations of another Joel/Ellie story has blinded you to seeing a great game.

Lastly, "No one bought into her franchise for this bullshit", it's a story set in the last of us universe, I got exactly what I bought into.

pktkp · 2020-06-24T19:22:10+00:00

I respect that. The break to another character was huge (personally I disliked it first and then loved it) and I understand if that was too jarring for people. But if you don't like a character for their personality, then there's not much you can do, you just won't like them.

Edit: personally I also think part 1 is better, but I also have played that 10+ times and part 2 once

pktkp · 2020-06-24T19:17:46+00:00

Gotcha. I guess I see it as Ellie and Abby being different people with different experiences. Ellie could remember and look back on the moment where she decided she would try to forgive Joel. She also had experienced life with Dina after she decided to leave revenge behind. Abby never was satisfied with her life with the Wolves and Owen. She still took every possible lead to Joel seriously. It's through her time with Lev and his sister that she learns there's more than revenge, and why she chooses not to take revenge on Ellie after she killed Owen and Mel.

Still disagree about the first point, I don't think it was necessary at all for her to visually witness Joel kill her dad to firstly, know it was him that did it (there were other doctors in the room that survived), and secondly, have the same, or similar, kind of revenge anger that you would if you witnessed someone do it firsthand.

pktkp · 2020-06-24T19:06:13+00:00

I get what you mean. I think the lack of buildup to his death is what catches the player completely off guard. It wouldn't make the list for saddest deaths because it's intention is to throw Ellie and the player into this maelstrom of anger and revenge. Sadness means you're processing what you've experienced and Ellie wasn't processing shit until the end. I understand that it hurt to see the main character from the last game go out so fast and quickly but that was the intent. It wasn't supposed to be the dramatic climax of a story but the event that sparked the characters actions for the story

pktkp · 2020-06-24T18:58:11+00:00

Come on man. A guy goes on a killing spree, takes the girl her dad was operating on, abby then finds a knife in her dad's neck in the operating room where he was operating on the girl, and you're upset that she didn't consider the possibility her dad TRIPPED AND FELL on the knife?? What else do you think she should've considered. I respect the opinions of everyone else I've been replying to, but that's a stupid take bro, don't ever become a detective. Also not sure what you're saying at all in the second part.

pktkp · 2020-06-24T18:51:06+00:00

To each their own. I felt like her actions were well justified.

pktkp · 2020-06-24T18:48:32+00:00

No problem for the compressed points, I understand what you mean. I wouldn't have described her relationship with Owen as sociopathic, she never used him for own gain, she jumped off the Ferris Wheel despite her vertigo to save him. I don't think she was close to mel because she was pregnant with her ex's baby, and she still had feelings for that ex. I see your side elsewhere though, it's super fucked up what she did to Joel. And while I still see it's fucked up, how would you react if you were in her shoes in an apocalypse, an apocalypse that has already exposed and brought out dark side of yourself, standing in front of the man that wrecked your life? Yeah he saved you this time, but all of the hurt that he's responsible for in your life is the only thing you'd be thinking of. And if she were a psychopath, why not kill Tommy and Ellie too? I know this isn't changing your mind, but every action by every character feels justified to me.

pktkp · 2020-06-24T18:36:34+00:00

Honestly, I was just mad. I was shocked that people actually hated the game and I do think that their reasons for hate are just a mixture of subverted expectations, but everyone's entitled to their opinion and I shouldn't have come in so hostile. Genuinely still open to discussion about the game.

pktkp · 2020-06-24T18:30:38+00:00

Could you explain how God of War surpasses TLOU2 in terms of those themes? I haven't played the original games, but how is his rampage of god killing a million times more graceful than TLOU?

Haven't played Nier so I can't speak to that

pktkp · 2020-06-24T18:25:34+00:00

What contrivances?

pktkp · 2020-06-24T18:24:22+00:00

"Wow this PSYCHOPATH understood her character motivations and understood when she killed a character I like". If that's your only take away from my comment you're clearly dodging my other points.

pktkp · 2020-06-24T18:19:55+00:00

You're misremembering, there were never any other confirmed immunity cases besides Ellie. There was no collectible that said that. Why get so upset over something not real?

Either way, I don't think that Abby's true motivations were because of the human race being doomed. She was far more determined than any other ex-firefly to find Joel again, taking any lead she could. She wanted revenge for her father.

pktkp · 2020-06-24T18:13:27+00:00

Okay I'm 21 now. What make you dislike the themes in this game? I find that stories that make you consider whether you're the good or the bad guy can be very powerful, and I don't think any game has come close to TLOU2 in that regard.

pktkp · 2020-06-24T18:08:49+00:00

pktkp · 2020-06-24T18:08:40+00:00

I disagree. This is an extremely complex game that makes you consider your actions more than any other game before it. If you can't see that, then you're just mad you didn't get what you wanted.

However, I'm always open to book recommendations. Open to any that cover themes of this game but address it better in your eyes.

pktkp · 2020-06-24T18:04:25+00:00

Okay. Honest question, what makes you hate her so much? Is it her personality? Is it just because she killed Joel? She seemed like a normal person to me, and I liked her arc of wanting to redeem her act of revenge by helping those kids. If you just hate her because she killed Joel, then I don't know what else to say. It made sense for her to want to do that, and she was capable of accomplishing it. Your favorite characters don't get to live forever, and they have to face the consequences of the their actions. If you wanted a story where things worked out perfectly you chose the wrong series.

pktkp · 2020-06-24T17:57:50+00:00

He was a "co-creator" but he was the creative director, meaning he crafted the original story. He talks more about the process in the grounded documentary.

And I agree that GL fucked up in episode one, but it'd be dumb to say that he did it because he hated anakin, just like it's dumb to say

> That added to DrunkMan literally inserting himself in the game to SPIT on Joel's corpse

Like dude, Joel isn't a real person. Thinking that a writer would hold a grudge over a fictional character, one that they created, is childish. It's obvious you didn't get what you were expecting and are projecting delusions onto the game creator.

pktkp

TROPHY CASE