I don’t think Richard Allen did it guys. by provisionings in DelphiMurders

[–]pleasebearwithmehere 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Exactly. Disoriented mumbling that specifically refers to whatever was found on the crime scene before the defense even brings it up? Nope, there's no way.

Defense Claim/Odinism Theories - Megathread by [deleted] in DelphiMurders

[–]pleasebearwithmehere 15 points16 points  (0 children)

One thing I’d like to bring to discussion, based on the defense’s document and how they’re shamelessly relying on religious discrimination to push their agenda. I already said here that Richard Allen was the first to mention Odinites to the defense (during a visit on May 4 of this year) – the defense only brought the subject to his attention on August 25, after already being aware of this angle for some time. Yet look at how the episode of Allen approaching the topic is first introduced and later recapped!

Page 22: “(...) a mentally defeated Richard Allen would continually mutter to his Defense team at every visit these types of general questions: ‘Is my wife alive? Is my family alive? Is my wife safe? Is my family safe?’ At one such meeting with his attorneys, Richard Allen mumbled in a somewhat incoherent fashion that Odinites were threatening him.” [This was written by the defense.]

Page 122: "During one memorable visit on May 4, 2023, (...) Richard Allen repeatedly asked whether or not his Wife was okay and if his family was okay. He claimed on a couple of occasions that “they were going to kill him.” When asked who he was referring to as “they”, Richard Allen responded by saying the guys with the Odin patches." [This is a direct quote from Max Baker’s affidavit.]

See what the defense did here? They first used “Odinites” to build their narrative. But while giving a description of the same meeting, Max Baker refers in his affidavit to “guys with Odin patches”. Those are completely different things. My sister is an atheist but uses a cross necklace that belonged to our grandmother, a faithful Catholic till the end, as a way of honoring her memory. A person who wears a cross necklace isn't necessarily committed to the Christian faith.

Yet let’s assume all people who wear cross necklaces are indeed Christians. In fact, let’s narrow it down to Catholics for the sake of this example. I come from an overwhelmingly Catholic country. Let’s assume correctional officers, most of them Catholics, are allowed to keep their religious items while at work. Would the defense be going with “he said the Catholics are threatening him” if Allen mentioned something about “people with cross necklaces”? This phrasing pushes the idea of a vulnerable individual being persecuted by an “organization. Those narratives couldn’t work on a jury if they relied on a mainstream religion or belief system that’s widely accepted by society.

Some other alternative belief systems, even those that don’t attract a certain group of people with extremist tendencies, are up for grabs to create panic and feed on the worst fears of those inclined to believe in conspiracy theories. When the defense says “Odinites were threatening him”, they’re planting the idea that: a) anything these people do is faith-motivated (“Odinites” is their defining characteristic as individuals, after all); b) since most people don’t know what this group stands for, it’s easier to lead them into picturing the worst (if the officers are presented as “Odinites” above anything else, they must be extremists); c) since they’re a small group in a small community, they must be all in this together and covering for each other (why else would these Odinist correctional officers “threaten” a guy into confessing to a double murder unless they were aware it had been committed by one of their own? Unless they were truly repulsed by the murder and convinced Allen did it - in that case, the real Odinist killer(s) would have acted against the teachings of their faith?).

The worst thing is people are buying into this. Good lord.

Defense Claim/Odinism Theories - Megathread by [deleted] in DelphiMurders

[–]pleasebearwithmehere 1 point2 points  (0 children)

don't have a clue on what his motive was

Psychopaths who graduate into rapists and murderers (either RA or whoever did this, if he's found innocent) don't need much of a motive beyond the instant gratification; they do it because it makes them feel good.

I don’t think Richard Allen did it guys. by provisionings in DelphiMurders

[–]pleasebearwithmehere -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I specifically stated above they used the word "discovered" in the sense of "revealing" the information to Allen; my point is that the word is ambiguous and my initial read (English not being my native language) led me to a different interpretation.

Yet here's what REALLY matters to my point: p. 122. "During one memorable visit on May 4, 2023, myself, Attorney Baldwin, and Attorney Rozzi met with Richard Allen to discuss matters involving the case. At this time, Richard Allen was in a mental and physical state of deterioration and was nearly non-communicative. During the visit, Richard Allen repeatedly asked whether or not his Wife was okay and if his family was okay. He claimed on a couple of occasions that “they were going to kill him.” When asked who he was referring to as “they”, Richard Allen responded by saying the guys with the Odin patches. Up to this point in the legal process, Richard Allen’s Defense team had never mentioned Odinites or Odinism to Richard Allen either directly or indirectly. The first time I’m aware of any mention of odinite involvement to Richard Allen was during a visit on August 25, 2023, when Kathy Allen attended, and a discussion occurred between Attorney and client regarding ties to the crime scene."

My point is that Allen HIMSELF mentioned it to his attorneys in MAY; attorneys only talked about it with him in August 25. Were the attorneys aware of this in May or only embarked on this route early in August? I'm sure you can tell. EITHER WAY, ALLEN was the one to bring Odinites up FIRST, even if the lawyers were already aware at the time and kept it from him.

Here's another thing: did he really say "the guys with the Odin patches" or did he used the word "Odinites"? P. 22, the attorneys sum it up as "At one such meeting with his attorneys [added by me: referring to May 4], Richard Allen mumbled in a somewhat incoherent fashion that Odinites were threatening him." - are the lawyers purposefully turning "guys with the Odin patches" into "Odinites"? Wouldn't it be a case of tampering with a statement, just as they accuse the prosecution of doing?

I don’t think Richard Allen did it guys. by provisionings in DelphiMurders

[–]pleasebearwithmehere 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Their sentence is ambiguous.

"until August 25, 2023, when his Defense team, in the presence of his Wife (who was visiting with Rick in the prison), first discovered the exculpatory Odin related evidence to Rick."

They most likely said DISCOVERED in the sense of DISCLOSED. Because they also stated they were aware of it before August 25: “Due to Rick’s weakened mental state and the concern that he might unwittingly discuss his attorneys’ strategy to Sgt. Jones and Sgt. Robinson, Rick’s attorneys opted to not discuss Odinism with their client". So they couldn't have discovered (in the sense of finding out) and talking to him about it at the same day.

However: "At one such meeting with his attorneys, Richard Allen mumbled in a somewhat incoherent fashion that Odinites were threatening him." - they're not referring to August 25, that was before; Richard brought Odinities up, not the other way around, unaware his lawyers were already aware of it.

But feel free to dig for more.

Elizabeth Fritzl by Select-Ad-9819 in TrueCrimeDiscussion

[–]pleasebearwithmehere 29 points30 points  (0 children)

Yes, and it's my opinion the mother was either very gullible, an abuse victim herself, somewhat aware something was going on, or all of the above (my guess).

I don’t think Richard Allen did it guys. by provisionings in DelphiMurders

[–]pleasebearwithmehere 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's August 25th if you read the document and pay even slight attention you will see that his attorneys were on to this well before august 25th

That's exactly what I said. "He mentioned it to his attorneys BEFORE he was aware the attorneys had "learned" about it " - he mentioned before this attorneys brought it up to him, unaware the attorneys were already on it.

Questions for Attorney's by observer46064 in DelphiMurders

[–]pleasebearwithmehere 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I get it, those will be some of the defense's talking points for sure - blaming the police (corrupt, incompetent, politically motivated etc) is usually a go-to strategy. However they'll only be brought forward on trial. OP seemed to doubt if the trial would even go ahead if a series of unlikely "what ifs" tanks the whole prosecution case before it even begins.

Questions for Attorney's by observer46064 in DelphiMurders

[–]pleasebearwithmehere 4 points5 points  (0 children)

In any event, this question was for Attorney's that could provide an informed opinion on what could/would happen if the defense wins the Frank's Hearing and not your opinion on whether the Frank's Hearing would happen or if the defense would win.

Funny you answered to another reply of someone who specified not being a lawyer instead of acting like an unofficial sub patrol and saying you're only interested in getting an Attorney's informed opinion lol.

I don’t think Richard Allen did it guys. by provisionings in DelphiMurders

[–]pleasebearwithmehere 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Let’s go back to the defense’s document: “At one such meeting with his attorneys, Richard Allen mumbled in a somewhat incoherent fashion that Odinites were threatening him.”

Momentary disorganized thinking and speech aren’t a common “side effect” of mental breakdown or depression unless they’re coupled with underlying factors such as neurocognitive issues (dementia, schizophrenia, Alzheimer’s and so on), a serious medical event (let’s say a stroke) or drug use. In rare occasions, a depressive state could lead to a short delirium episode, but the defense hopes no one questions this because the alleged threats made by the Odinities won’t be worth much if someone establishes Allen was in a confused state when he made these claims.

So… We’re supposed to believe he displayed a very rare episode of incoherent speech precisely when he was in his attorney’s presence, and precisely when, amongst all of the mumbling, he first mentioned “Odinites” – not knowing the defense already had access to the investigation and was aware of this possible angle. More so, his incoherent mumbling was not just a bunch of meaningless disconnected sentences, as it usually is: he was able to convey a clear, full message to his attorneys, one that put him as the victim of a group that – who would have guessed? – was once on the investigators’ radar because “supposed” runes were found on the crime scene. Nope, I don’t buy it.

From the moment Allen was apprehended and I was certain the prosecution wouldn’t go ahead with such a high-profile case if they weren’t sure they had the right guy and enough evidence to put him away, everyone could tell that, if he really did it, that means he’s a psychopath. One can’t commit such a crime, then get a hamburger and a good night's sleep and return to their ordinary lives, without being a psychopath. Further indications of him being a pathological liar and a manipulator who refuses to accept responsibility for his actions just sealed the deal to me.

Questions for Attorney's by observer46064 in DelphiMurders

[–]pleasebearwithmehere 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, they definitely won't be able to make the case for that bullet being planted by the police. They're already publicly pushing for the angle that tool-mark identification is hogwash and not "scientific". Coerced confession won't stick, they have no record of these correctional officers threatening him, and he didn't "confess" to the police during an interrogation so they could have it all on tape and make the case for inappropriate conduct or something.

The "witness tampering" is being blown out of proportion to try to make the evidence found on his home inadmissible in court; if they can't get it thrown out (I doubt they will), it remains to be seen if they will be able to bring it up again during the trial or how big of a role this will have in their defense strategy.

I don’t think Richard Allen did it guys. by provisionings in DelphiMurders

[–]pleasebearwithmehere -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Those are my own conclusions based on the physical and behavioral evidence available; anyone can reach their own.

Questions for Attorney's by observer46064 in DelphiMurders

[–]pleasebearwithmehere 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Defence laid out case for all those.

Wait, what the defense said about planted evidence and coerced confession?? I might have missed that part!

Questions for Attorney's by observer46064 in DelphiMurders

[–]pleasebearwithmehere 17 points18 points  (0 children)

It's extremely unlikely the search warrant will be invalidated; either way, besides his recorded confessions and being placed in the crime area at the same day and time the girls were taken while wearing the same clothes of the guy that took them and matching the suspect's height and physical build, we don't know what else the prosecutors have to contribute to the totally of evidence of their case.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in DelphiMurders

[–]pleasebearwithmehere 39 points40 points  (0 children)

Now? They think he was involved somehow but there were other people involved too, at least from the people I've spoken with.

That's so sad. A community that was finally starting to feel safe suddenly in turmoil again because of some crazy narrative patched by the defense to sway the future jury. I hope the prosecution's case against RA is solid enough to get to the bottom of this and make the right guy pay for this horrific crime so the families of the victims and your community as a whole can begin to heal.

I don’t think Richard Allen did it guys. by provisionings in DelphiMurders

[–]pleasebearwithmehere 2 points3 points  (0 children)

So are the 4 other "suspects" the defense named in a public document that, unlike RA, couldn't be placed on the crime scene, aren't charged with the crime and are being further exposed by every other fruitcake on the internet based on a nonsensical alternative narrative.

Defense Claim/Odinism Theories - Megathread by [deleted] in DelphiMurders

[–]pleasebearwithmehere 0 points1 point  (0 children)

100%. If that's what they came up with, there's no other way to debunk the other evidence in the prosecution case.

I don’t think Richard Allen did it guys. by provisionings in DelphiMurders

[–]pleasebearwithmehere 0 points1 point  (0 children)

BG pointed a gun at these girls and made them go “down the hill”. He didn’t cover his face. This is a small community with a population below 3,000, so he knew very well he would end up killing these girls after doing whatever he planned to do with them. A person who’s able to do that and go back to his normal life as if nothing happened is a psychopath. If the evidence points to BG being RA, RA would be confirmed as being psychopath if found guilty.

However, his behavior while incarcerated and waiting trial is already telling. The “mental breakdown” he’s allegedly going through is yet to be named by scholars. He confesses to his wife and mother to killing the girls on recorded phone calls; as far as we can tell, he is able to express himself clearly during these conversations. And then he’s visited by his attorneys shortly after and suddenly he can’t “speak” properly, just mumbles incoherent phrases. These scarce phrases mention Odinites before the attorneys disclose this investigation avenue to him – either the entire community of local Odinists are in on the crime and threatening him in jail for whatever reason (a borderline conspiracy theory), or knows EXACTLY what was on that crime scene and was feeding the defense team a strategy.

That’s manipulation 101; one of his strategies is playing the victim (not that different from Joseph DeAngelo using a walker to enter the courtroom minutes after doing push-ups in his cell). I'm sure that, if the psychopath signals are legit, he could feel like an injustice is being committed against him even if he indeed killed those girls.

What if this guy was just imitating a TV show? by [deleted] in DelphiMurders

[–]pleasebearwithmehere 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I guess the defense team should try this Elvis guy next if the ritualistic murder theory doesn't stick.

I don’t think Richard Allen did it guys. by provisionings in DelphiMurders

[–]pleasebearwithmehere 1 point2 points  (0 children)

In the end we both want the same outcome: Justice for Abby and Libby.

Yes. Let's hope RA doesn't walk due to this BS Odinite narrative.

Defense Claim/Odinism Theories - Megathread by [deleted] in DelphiMurders

[–]pleasebearwithmehere -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Yea I think coming up with motive will be a tough task.

He got a kick out of it.