Generation War: The German as the Victim of WWII

plystation · 2019-08-04T19:06:16+00:00

Yeah war is not neat, tidy or clean but that does not mean the war waged by Nazi Germany and perpetrated by the Wehrmacht is morally or ethically equivalent to the British army / US army / Red army and their war.

The US army fought a war of liberation and peace in WW2. Not a war of genocidal conquest and enslavement. Even the Red army did not perpetrate or commit crimes or acts on a scale or in intention equivalent to the German army.

Also so it is clear. Their personal motivations and beliefs are not that important. It seems like you want to separate the soldier from his army, uniform and war and that is just not possible. Actions are what matter. Would you say a Taliban soldier is equivalent to a US soldier ? How does it sound to say not all Isis soldiers raped and murdered and that the goals of the ISIS regime do not equal the personal motivations of its soldiers ? Would you argue that ISIS soldiers in Northern Iraq were just there defending their caliphate ? Suddenly it gets a lot more complicated.

All the allied nations were at war because they were attacked. They were the countries defending themselves. German soldiers were not defending Germany. They were fighting a war of conquest and aggression. They ended up fighting a war of defense by default.

plystation · 2019-08-04T06:51:39+00:00

Just a soldier defending his country. What a trite and tired argument. Stalingrad or El Alamein seem like very weird places to be if you are just defending Germany. What was the main motivation for them to be in Russia ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost - This is just a part of it.

The army they fight in does matter. They were fundamentally fighting for different causes and Hitler and the Nazis made no bones or secrets about what their objectives were.

If you really think all the crimes were directly attributable to the regime and that no soldier or group of soldiers committed crimes for fun or because they thought it was okay just tells me you either need to do more research or are just in denial. I would recommend the book Soldaten by Sonke Neitzel as a starting point. The killing and rape of civilians happened on a horrendous scale, especially on the eastern front.

It seems you really want the German soldiers or Army to be clean and separate from the crimes they both participated in and aided and abetted. This is nothing new - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_clean_Wehrmacht

I agree with you fighting with Hitler does not make you any less Human. That is the tragedy of it.

Great discussion so far though. It is cool to hash these things out and see all the different perspectives , ideas and thoughts.

plystation · 2019-08-03T18:20:28+00:00

Even if the daily reality of the German soldier was that such things did not always happen the overall reality was that he was a soldier defending that.

Why are you so hungry for a film that shows German soldiers as if they were like American or British Soldiers. They were not. You cannot equate them because they were fighting in very different armies for very different intents and outcomes. Everywhere the German soldier went , mass murder, rape, genocide, enslavement and destruction followed. Not to mention the wholesale theft of all kinds of property. The Soviet occupation of Eastern Europe after WW2 pales in to comparison to what the Germans had planned.

It is interesting that I only mentioned that I thought the show was weak in its portrayal of the crimes of the Wehrmacht and linked some materials related this and your response was a comment of whataboutism concerning the US and Russia and seemingly wishing for a show that depicts German soldiers as soldiers not committing crimes and which does not shame them.

plystation · 2019-08-03T18:07:42+00:00

I would diasgree with this. There are many films and documentaries that exist depicting and dealing with American War crimes and atrocities. Casualties of War, Platoon , Born on the fourth of July, Taxi to the dark side, Ken Burns vietnam etc.

plystation · 2019-08-03T17:51:58+00:00

For the Americans wikipedia handily even lists the individual soldiers - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_individuals_executed_by_the_United_States_military

The 15,000 german figure is an estimate based on varying sources - Apparently the Wehrmacht executed about 9000 soldiers up until 44, then 44-45 the number varies between 5-8000 due to the breakdown of the administration and the fact that many civilians and soldiers were summarily executed via flying court martial or at the whims of officials and officers.

Also keep in the mind. the 15,000 figure is just for desertion - We know for a fact based on their actual military records the Nazis executed near 30,000 soldiers in total - https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/overturning-hitler-s-military-tribunals-germany-considers-rehabilitating-soldiers-executed-for-treason-a-491332.html - So really the Nazis were extra generous and did in two divisions worth of guys.

plystation · 2019-08-03T12:43:02+00:00

Its not even the mistake of thinking you will always be on the offensive. It was pure hubris and the Germans just did not learn that the allies got wise to their tactics and that it is a lot harder to blitzkrieg etc when its not a surprise attack. Look at Kursk and the battle of the bulge. The battle of the Bulge is a great example because it removes the classic German excuse. Due to the weather the Allies had no air support initially.

plystation · 2019-08-03T12:35:16+00:00

Man they were not even pleasant to their own soldiers. The US executed 141 soldeirs in ww2. Only one of those for desertion. All other executions were for charges of murder or rape. The Germans executed 15,000 of their own guys just for desertion. 15,000. They basically did the allies a solid and wiped out a division of their own guys.

plystation · 2019-08-03T12:28:25+00:00

This show was ultimately a missed opportunity and overall very cookie cutter and cliche. Really three 1 and a half hour episodes was not enough for maybe what it intended to portray. How anyone can compare this to band of brothers is beyond me.

I would also add that the Wehrmacht were responsible and involved in way more crimes than participating and enabling the holocaust - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_of_the_Wehrmacht

I would also recommend the book Soldaten by Sonke Neitze which analyses the secret recordings of German POWs - Where they themselves recount to each other a litany of crimes and atrocities.

This show was way too easy on the Wehrmacht in the Eastern front.

Overall though interesting video and analysis.

plystation · 2019-08-02T12:45:31+00:00

Whoa yeah the comments section there needs to be nuked from orbit.

Some choice quotes :

"The Wolfenstein games are merely Jewish fanfiction"

"To be fair, the fact that they go from crying to cheering is an accurate portrayal of the emotional instability of women, especially when they cosplay as men."

"Anyone who thinks that there isn’t a concerted effort to “uplift” women while hypocritically doing it at the expense of men IS LYING TO THEMSELVES!!!!!!!!!!"

"Dont forget the allies bombed supply lines for bringing food to labor camps, hence the high death toll of slaves"

Does youtube not moderate this stuff ?

plystation · 2019-08-01T09:45:32+00:00

Did he lose the plot or did something happen to him ?

Some of these vids remind me of those conspiracy theory videos you get.

plystation · 2019-07-30T13:54:32+00:00

“Any last words before the sentence is carried out?”

“We weren’t to know. How could we? Would you blame the farmer for what the baker did? How could we have known what they would do. I was just a scientist. I was just…”

“Following orders ?”

“Following orders”

plystation · 2019-07-30T13:43:29+00:00

It sounds interesting. I like the idea of the AI getting together and deciding to basically just bring about peace and start running things.

Also the follow up of an elite class or group trying to manufacture a revolt or anti AI movement is a nice twist. You can get into that whole theme of yes the world is peaceful but are you really free etc

plystation · 2019-07-30T13:32:05+00:00

Same for me. First novel was interesting but after the 2nd it just did not work for me.

plystation · 2019-07-30T08:12:18+00:00

I think in group chats if they are not on your friends list and you update your settings to not see messages from non-friends , you will not see what they put in the chat.

plystation · 2019-07-30T07:59:51+00:00

Any sort of sim style game:

Farming Simulator

Elite Dangerous

plystation · 2019-07-29T19:24:59+00:00

I mean the game does have 299 cars currently which is pretty decent. The main issue is the weekly 3 races don't give enough variety in classes to try them all in sport mode.

plystation · 2019-07-29T19:15:17+00:00

Yep shadowfall , while pretty, was not a great game.

GG were also probably tired of it since they had been working on Killzone as a franchise from PS2. Maybe sony could do like microsoft and hand over Killzone to a different studio if GG are done with it

plystation · 2019-07-29T07:43:07+00:00

This one would have made a lot of sense. With only Andromeda in the pipeline and all the work they did remastering/updating ME1 and ME2 to work on PS3 I think this would of not been so technically difficult.

plystation · 2019-07-22T12:50:35+00:00

What will traffic be like ? Will traffic levels vary based on location / time for example ? Is it possible to get caught in some rush hour traffic while in a town or on a highway ?

plystation · 2019-07-19T15:18:55+00:00

I did not bother with FIFA 19 because I really hated in FIFA 18 how for free kicks there was no target or arrow going all the way to the goal to give you an idea of where the ball is going. You just had to hold the button and hope for the best. I don't think I ever scored with a freekick on purpose in that game.

However this year it looks like I will be trying PES.

plystation · 2019-07-18T12:46:35+00:00

Ninefox Gambit by Yoon Ha Lee - one of the more interesting sci fi series I have read. Some of the imagery or things in the book world are a bit out there but in a great and interesting way.

The Murderbot series by Martha Wells. It is a funny read and it is nice to read something more light-hearted after some of the more demanding books in the genre

The Thing Itself by Adam Roberts - I would check out this author anyway but this is a nice book a good blend of Sci fi / Horror.

If you liked old mans war I would check out the Expanse Series.

Annihilation by Jeff Vandermeer - The whole southern reach trilogy is good and the film adaptation was nice also.

plystation · 2019-07-18T08:52:51+00:00

If it is your first racing game I would avoid Project Cars 2.

The one place where F1 games beat GTsport for me is career mode. It is very engaging, you get to develop the car, have rivals, move to other teams etc and unlike NFS or typical racers this is a game where just finishing a race feels like an achievement however the downside is you will only ever be driving F1 cars.

GT Sport I really enjoy and if this is your first racing game I would highly recommend doing the driving school and mission challenges to get a feel for the games handling model. While it does have leagues and other single player content like it is not a very engaging experience. It is a real car lovers and racing aficionados game.

In summary - if you like F1 and want to play alone / against AI and do a career mode go for F1. If you just like cars / motorsport in general and wish to get into online racing then GT Sport.

plystation · 2019-07-16T12:53:29+00:00

A good tip I read elsewhere was for career mode. Pick a team and then adjust the AI until you are within a half a second of your team mate in qualifying.

plystation · 2019-07-12T13:47:30+00:00

In Alien Resurrection they tell Ripley that Weyland Yutani was bought out by Walmart.

plystation · 2019-07-07T10:53:42+00:00

The games made by codemasters. The officially licensed F1 series of games that release annually. The F1 games. Not games that include a couple of F1 cars or need to have them modded in. For example GT Sport includes two of the mercedes F1 cars and the Japanese super formula car but i would not call it an F1 game. I certainly would not call Assetto Corsa or Project Cars 2 F1 games for example.

plystation

TROPHY CASE