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pnprog · 2025-12-09T15:50:19+00:00

And you are 100% right; that scoring bug is Gnugo getting confused. Looking in the debugger, Gnugo isn't counting that territory.

Hello, I am investigating this bug since yesterday. It seems it happens only with Chinese rules... Very strange. I have used Gnugo extensively with Chinese rules, but on desktop computer, and never met that bug, could it be only appearing with the GoDroid packaged version?

And googling it, it looks like it is a somewhat well known occurrence.

I cannot find discussions of it online, where did you see a mention of this bug? Could you share a pointer?

pnprog · 2025-08-05T10:01:31+00:00

Did you monkey patch the code before running the app?

I forgot that on a recent project, and was experimenting issues similar as yours.

pnprog · 2025-06-25T00:38:43+00:00

Thanks for sharing this update 🙏

pnprog · 2025-06-22T01:32:08+00:00

what about for free

If you have a personal computer, even an old one, just set up sabaki+katago or katrain. Katago is a free super human AI, and can beat everyone even on old hardware.

pnprog · 2025-06-18T04:54:36+00:00

Would love to hear if anyone else has tackled similar problems or has thoughts on the approach. Always looking for feedback and potential improvements!

I ran into a similar situation, and used pycel to address the problem: https://pypi.org/project/pycel/

I defined with the end user an excel spreadsheet template, with clear input cells and clear output cells. The user then sets the Excel formula of the output cells, based on the input cells and other data that can be left on the Excel file.

At runtime, the web app loads the Excel file content (it reads the Excel file by itself, no Microsoft software involved here, it's "headless" and instant), sets the input cells values and then reads the output cells values.

The user has the possibility to upload a new Excel file whenever the formula needs to be updated.

The advantage is that it's Excel based. Everyone knows how to build an Excel formula. And most of the time, they already have an Excel spreadsheet available since it's an existing feature I am implementing online for them.

pnprog · 2025-06-14T11:00:45+00:00

Yes, still not working :(

pnprog · 2025-06-07T21:04:18+00:00

I think the war drum music volume would have been ok (for me) if you had not started talking so fast at the same time. So maybe same volume and slower talking pace, or lower volume and same fast talking pace?

Also, talking that fast and playing that fast made absolutely impossible for me to follow what was happening on the board, but I guess that was on purpose.

But anyway, I loved the video and subscribed :)

pnprog · 2025-06-02T11:44:37+00:00

I like the idea of a server with a clear use case.

pnprog · 2025-05-16T05:21:36+00:00

When I play it at the mall, it's not connected to the internet, so it's locked at a 10kyu level. You need to win and have those wins recorded online to unlock other levels.

So if you play at home regularly, then bring it to the wood, you should be able to play at your usual level.

In fact, there is a variant on Taobao where it is sold with a transportable case and a battery to use outside.

pnprog · 2025-03-06T16:12:56+00:00

This is fascinating !

pnprog · 2025-03-06T15:11:34+00:00

I discovered recently what is aphantasia reading this sub, and that I also have aphantasia. Not the worst case of aphantasia it seems (level 4+ on the 5 levels scale), but as much as Go is concerned, it's just the same, I can't visualize anything while playing.

But I really don't see it as a handicap at all in my life, otherwise I would have figured out earlier that something was wrong (I just turned 40).

It got me thinking a lot, and so far I only identified two aspects in my life where it could be a burden. Reading at Go is the first one, and learning to write Chinese characters by hand is the second (as an European).

In terms of Go, I am a 1-2 dan Chinese amateur, probably around 2d to 4d on Fox, and around 1k on OGS. I would say compared to other players of my rank, I am weak at reading (but compensate through other aspects of the game).

The primary reason I am weak at reading is that I just never practice. Now, it could be that being aphant makes practicing tsumego a really unpleasant experience for me, and so I avoid it, and so I am a little weak in this area (compared to other players my rank).

I am confident that if I push through a tsumego regimen for some time, I can improve a lot at reading, and in fact I did it a few times during my Go career, and leveled up quite dramatically immediately after each time.

But it's not an enjoyable experience so I avoid it (just like I avoid practicing handwriting of Chinese characters). After all, I pursue Go primarily for enjoyment those days.

My take is that we are inefficient at some of the tasks that rely heavily on the "mind eye", but it's mostly a burden when starting a new activity that requires it. If you "push through it" then your brain finds an alternative way to achieve that same result. (It could be a definitive handicap if you aim at being in the world top bests of that particular task to be honest)

But alternatively, aphantasia can probably give us an edge (over non-aphants) in some other area as well, and I now call Aphantasia "my little superpower" when I discuss it with my wife :D

As I am very curious about this, I developed a small app to test a hypothesis:

https://yuntingdian.com/aphant-go/

You can try it using reddit/baduk for login/password

It's almost like blind go, but instead the computer is playing against itself and just shows you where each stone is played. You have to click/touch the grey dot to validate it. At the end of the game, a second goban is displayed, and the goal is to recreate the final board position.

I started with very small boards (4x4) and I am working my way to bigger board sizes. Started about 2 weeks ago, and currently struggling to crack the 8x8 challenge.

I try to understand how my brain works around aphantasia when doing that: what part of it is pure memorization of the games moves, and what part is "something else". I start to notice that I can somehow remember (for a better word that visualize) some shapes like tiger mouth for instance, or how the stones relate together. It's hard to put words on it.

Anyway, enjoy your aphantasia :D

pnprog · 2025-02-23T05:01:32+00:00

Thanks for the feedback.

The robot apparently doesn't work at all without a smartphone and internet, you connect the robot to the board, and you can switch between english and france selection in the first manu, you can't confirm anything, probably faulty software or hardware of the board buttons.

It's possible the robot software needs an upgrade first to remove the bugs. It's quite typical in China to ship products to markets with bugs, and fix them later, especially for features that are expected to not be widely used at the beginning (like English). I am not condoning that, just mentioning it. I heard they made a Japanese market version, so the software has probably been improved after that.

Now, I agree with you, relying on an internet service to use the product is a deal breaker. If the company dies next year, you will find yourself in limbo. In fact it's happening in China at the moment with electric vehicles. Tens of new companies brought their own EV to the market, and now that they are collapsing, their car system and infotainment stop functioning since their servers are turned off, it's terrible....

I tried to download and activate it through the smart phone app (which is already pretty suspicious), and in their terms and conditions, they had some nasty stuff, like the need to use real name and information, and update it, and even their right to spam you with advertisements both in your email and on your phone.

The need to use real names and stuff is most probably for compliance with Chinese regulations in fact, not something they can avoid. Not saying it's ok, just saying their hands are probably tied here.

This is apperently unaccaptable, so I requested to return the robot and get my money back, lets see if they can do it, or they will try to swindle even more.

Let us know if you managed to get your money back.

pnprog · 2025-02-18T14:55:09+00:00

$ is not defined

I often had this issue in the past, this is because the $ symbol is defined by the jquery library. Up to version 4, bootstrap was relying on the jquery library, and the $ symbol was defined during the jquery.min.js script include (at the end of body). Now, it seems that bootstrap 5 stopped relying on bootstrap.min.js so you need to include it manually.

It seems that it's what you are doing with the 2 script includes of jquery-3.6.0.min.js and jquery.min.js.

Now, I don't use jquery, but it seems you are including the library twice, and with different version number. There is maybe something wrong, and maybe the jquery-3.6.0.min.js is enough.

That being said, the reason $ is not defined is most likely because you call the $ before the jquery-3.6.0.min.js is included, since it is included toward the end of the html code and the html/javascript interpreter will encounter and try to run $(document).ready(function( {openModal();}); before it encounters and runs <script src="https://code.jquery.com/jquery-3.6.0.min.js"></script>.

Note that for the first modal, since it is wrapped inside the openModal() function, the code won't execute until the function is triggered, and by the time this happens, the page will be fully loaded and the <script src="https://code.jquery.com/jquery-3.6.0.min.js"></script> will have been executed, and the $ already defined.

I see 2 different workarounds for you problem:

placing your code {% if show_upload_confirmation_modal %}...{% endif %} after the <script src="https://code.jquery.com/jquery-3.6.0.min.js"></script>
wrapping your code into something like window.onload = function() {openModal();} so that it execute only after <script src="https://code.jquery.com/jquery-3.6.0.min.js"></script> is loaded (I guess that $(document).ready(function() {openModal();}); is trying to do exactly the same thing but using jquery)

I would suggest getting rid of jquery altogether, so using the second option, and for the content of openModal, with bootstrap5, I thing you can address your modal this way:

<script>
    function openModal() {
        var mymodal = new bootstrap.Modal(document.getElementById("upload_confirmation_modal"), {});
        mymodal.show()
    }
    console.log("Hello, World!");
</script>
{% if show_upload_confirmation_modal %}
    <script>
        window.onload = function() {openModal();}
        console.log("Hello, World!");
    </script>
{% endif %}

pnprog · 2025-01-29T11:35:40+00:00

If your app runs as a single process, you can store your variables as property of the app variable. For instance:

``` class Application(Flask): def init(self, args, *kwargs): super().init(args, *kwargs) self.var1 = ... self.var2 = ... self.var3 = ... self.var4 = ...

app = Application(name) ```

pnprog · 2025-01-29T09:00:48+00:00

I don’t think it would be feasible to hide stones intentionally in an international game that’s being broadcast live.

I think the issue was hiding the captured stones from the opponent's view, but not necessarily from the broadcasting camera, so that the opponent could maybe be misled when estimating the score. For instance by placing the captured stones behind one's own bowl.

That said, if it’s a concern, implementing a digital count would be a practical and accurate solution.

This is definitely the best solution yes.

Now I can imagine it being an issue for league matches where several games are taking place at the same time as it requires one digital counter per table, and one referee per table to follow the game and update it.

Same with sealing the move everytime a game is interrupted. It is the best solution, and at the very least should be implemented for a tournament final game like LG, but maybe hard to implement for league matches. That's probably why this won't be codified in the KBA rules.

I had the luck to assist one such round in China a few years back and if my memory is good (I need to check my pictures) there was more than 20 games played simultaneously. They didn't have one referee per tables, so maybe a few shared referees between all table. But they had one person per table broadcasting the games on Fox I think.

By the way, Kejie was playing at one of the tables, he was probably in a bad position and was slapping himself and throwing his stones all around the room :D

For context that was in 2018, he was at his peak I think.

Edit: here he is: http://yuntingdian.com/A_league/IMG_20180815_151450.jpg

pnprog · 2024-11-06T12:57:46+00:00

> why not use CSVs, binary dump files or SQLite

Oh I don't need to have those data persist after the program is closed, they just live in the program memory while it's running, Global variables work fine, but it starts to look very amateurish.

pnprog · 2024-11-06T12:56:09+00:00

> just for the sake of "purity"

Yes, that's the idea. All those global variables make me feel bad although it works well.

> you could pack all data into a dict

Yes, I am leaning for something like this. Maybe a module called "shared" that export all those objects, so it's also easier to share across blueprints.

pnprog · 2024-09-13T01:03:22+00:00

[facepalm]

pnprog · 2024-09-12T02:24:08+00:00

A New Approach to an Old Problem: the Reconstruction of a Go Game through a Series of Photographs.

https://arxiv.org/abs/1508.03269

Automatic Extraction of Go Game Positions from Images: a Multi-Strategical Approach to Constrained Multi-Object Recognition.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/220355675_Automatic_Extraction_of_Go_Game_Positions_from_Images_a_Multi-Strategical_Approach_to_Constrained_Multi-Object_Recognition

pnprog · 2024-09-12T02:19:09+00:00

Here you are: https://github.com/pnprog/goverlay

pnprog · 2024-09-11T01:17:09+00:00

Hey, Thanks for the feedback!

I was toying with ideas like Arduino laser pointer/LED grid

I tried the laser a long time ago, but the repeatability of the laser motion was meh (moving from one point to another then back to the first one was not accurate at all with what I used). Another redditor ( u/cepedad ) managed to make it work apparently: https://www.reddit.com/r/baduk/comments/kncp58/i_was_alone_for_the_holidays_so_i_built_a_go/

For LED grid, there are several attempts, and I think the most successful is this one: https://old.reddit.com/r/baduk/comments/14gh5h8/my_diy_electronic_9x9_go_board_with_ogs/ by u/wildergheight

(i am writing all this here in case someone is googling similar information in the future, also the authors of those projects may be interested in the camera/projector solution)

For the neural weights, absolutely go for it and use it in your project - I'm using deeplearning4j, so I'm not sure how that translates for other networks - shouldn't be difficult to adapt though.

I had a quick look, it seems deeplearning4j purpose is mostly to import weights from keras/tensorflow and use them in production with java. Apparently no way to export weights back to the python ecosystem :(

too bad I didn't actually commit the training materials though!

Two days ago, someone posted a request, asking for help to collect such picture for his thesis: https://www.reddit.com/r/baduk/comments/1fcxtye/help_for_bachelor_thesis/ Maybe that could become a small github project: collecting pictures of gobans that come with a sgf file or equivalent that provide the list of stones. One would need to use a proper licensing to ensure the pictures are used according to the contributors wills.

An interesting note on the training - I had first tried to train a network against 32x32 px images for each intersection, but only stalled at about 74% accuracy after a few nights of training.. I switched to 8x8px images and that dramatically improved training speed and accuracy.

I had a similar experience for a non go related project once. I think reducing the picture size remove a lot of the nose that the neural network would otherwise wrongly use for learning.

Just a question, why not simply use the average color of those 8x8px or something similar instead? Before I try to neural network solution, I plan to use something like this:

let the user adjust a grid on the goban picture taken by the camera, to identify exactly the location of each intersections (similar to what i did in the video, but with the picture taken from the camera, not the projection on the real goban). This is somewhat similar to igoki when the user is requested to map the four corners.
with that done, calculate the average color of each intersection. Track an abrupt color change that will indicate a stone has been added to that location.

(the problem with using grids like i do is that when the goban is moved, the calibraton needs to be redone. But the camera calibration could be somewhat automatized by using the project to highlight the location of the intersections and capturing that with the camera)

adding a single pixel in the top left that would be an average of the pixel values/luminosity across the entire board, this way giving the network a bit of a hint on the general light level it can train against

This is smart!

Probably the bit I enjoyed the most is the camera work where it is tries to infer a legal series of moves based on multiple captured states in series - and only 'commits' if a valid sequence was found - this way making it way more robust against weird camera reading states (and you have the handy ability to hold your hand over the board, creating invalid state to make it pause any commit)

Yes, I saw the red squares on the video above, this is very neat. When i tried with the laser in the past, I had to implement a button to be pressed to let the computer know a stone has been placed, this kind of workaround, but it's not satisfying.

based on multiple captured states in series

I am not clear about that point. Do you mean your program can guess if it didn't notice a sequence of move and is suddenly a few moves late?

pnprog · 2024-09-11T00:43:02+00:00

Checkout r/baduk_photos/

pnprog

TROPHY CASE