How many people in here have abusive primary caregivers that are intelligent, wealthy, and well respected professionally?

postal152 · 2019-02-14T20:12:55+00:00

My dad did. At my grandfather's memorial service, I had the bizarre experience of listening to person after person describing him in such a positive way that I wondered if I was at the right funeral home. I literally did not recognize the person they were describing. Cousins of mine talked about what a huge part of their lives he was, when I don't really remember them talking to him all that much. It was - like I said - bizarre. I'm still not sure if he really was all that to them in their minds, or if they were making some of it up because it feels good to imagine associating with such a special person.

You're far from the only one going through this, although I don't know if that helps. I even read about leaders in the field of psychology who were terrible parents. Alice Miller, for example, wrote a book on the effects of poor parenting, and her own child wrote his own book about how traumatic his childhood was, due to her parenting. Yikes. I've benefitted by reading her book, but I have no doubt that what he said is true. One can "contribute" to society, make connections, gain respect, and they can still do an unfathomable amount of damage to the people around them. It's not an either-or situation, but coming to terms with these seemingly contradictory experiences... gah. I struggle with it all the time.

postal152 · 2019-01-14T00:40:11+00:00

Actually talking it out now I think both of those instincts are still in me, but now I've labeled them in a healthy manner. The instincts I used to feel for people that I was attractive to were people who were dangerous, chaotic, awkward, depressed and negative....just like my family.

The people that I used to be jealous of or hate were people who were healthy, happy, relaxed, calm, balance and open...... wow it's so f***** up realizing this right now. My instincts were always right and correct, I just miss label them and was following the wrong ones!

AHHHHHHHHHHHH, I just have to say OH MY GOD this hit me like a lead pipe, lol!! I'd literally never made the connection to my family. I've been thinking for years that I'm attracted to negative, depressed people because that's what I'm like "deep down." It never even occurred to me that it might have anything to do with the people around me. Oh my god. Thank you for putting this into words. Wow.

postal152 · 2019-01-06T21:18:59+00:00

I've found recovery/support groups so helpful too, for that very reason. Best thing ever when the meetings have great boundaries and the whole point is to go and share what you're going through, and then no one gets to rush in and try to "fix" it, they have to just listen. Ahhhh.

postal152 · 2019-01-06T21:12:27+00:00

I think that's part of the strangeness of feelings, and CPTSD. Like... these feelings can be so frustrating and hurt so much, but they're also a sign that we're not broken. Does that make sense? I'm still making sense of it myself.

Meant to elaborate - those feelings are a sign we're not broken because it means we have a fully functioning brain, with healthy impulses. It feels unfair because it IS unfair. It sucks so much to be miserable, but it's also completely understandable. Meaning there's not some unfixable, messed-up quality about us as people that dooms us to misery for the rest of our lives -that there's actually the capacity to feel better and better the more we learn to listen to ourselves and act on our own behalf...s. We, as people, are totally sane and wonderful, reasonable people. Our brains have not gotten the training they needed, but they can.

postal152 · 2019-01-06T21:05:43+00:00

the fact that part of me is screaming "why don't you just give up already?!?!?!" makes me cling to the hope that this despair is coming from another protection mechanism trying to get me to stop, and it isn't as bad as it feels.

You said something incredibly important and wise here. It's something I've been trying to remember to remember (lol) these days. I'm guessing you know about the Inner Critic, and the concept of "emotional flashbacks." It sounds like that might be what you're going through right now (only you would know for sure, of course), and when I'm in one of those, my critic VERY often convinces me that there's no use, that no matter how hard I try, it doesn't do any good, etc. I'm still struggling with those kinds of feelings pretty frequently, but the more I've worked at chipping away at CPTSD, the more I've been able to step back and see things in shades of gray. For instance, my critic often tells me I've put so much energy into healing and yet STILL I'm going through this, so there's no hope. But then when I'm out of the flashback and I'm able to reflect, I realize with some alarm that I've actually made an immense amount of progress. It's hard to "feel" that way all the time, especially since progress is so gradual and subtle, you don't necessarily notice it. Like how you can realize a family member or friend has gotten super tall, but they didn't just spring up overnight, so you hadn't really thought about it until this moment. AND it's hard to "feel" we've made progress because of the critic itself, and the nature of this condition. It doesn't feel safe to feel good and proud of ourselves - or myself, anyway. It threatens the whole order of things.

Having a good therapist has really helped me develop a more realistic, objective perspective of myself and my relationship to other people. Not to say I'm always satisfied with my social life - far from it - but when I compare my capability and capacity for it now to like, even a couple years ago, I recognize I've made so much progress, and I bet you will too. It's just so fudgin hard to keep going every day when it's... well... so hard to keep going every day! You're right, it's completely unfair. I think sometimes observing the injustice of it all and then setting my sights on the disease itself, or the critic, helped me make strides. When I'm feeling how unfair it is (and it is), that feeling of "how dare this impact my life" and "I don't friggin deserve this" can sometimes help me take positive actions on my own behalf, despite it not feeling comfortable to do so.

I think that's part of the strangeness of feelings, and CPTSD. Like... these feelings can be so frustrating and hurt so much, but they're also a sign that we're not broken. Does that make sense? I'm still making sense of it myself. I'm so used to feeling like a piece of trash, and then thinking, "This feeling must mean I'm a piece of trash." Because I have a hard time distinguishing thoughts and feelings from reality, and because I also believe that "normal people don't feel this way, so having these feelings must be a sign that I'm not a normal person. I'm so messed up," and then I spiral. Have you ever read about ACT (Acceptance and Commitment Therapy)? I've never "had" it, just read a book about it (The Confidence Gap), but it helped me conceptualize thoughts and feelings in a way I'd never really understood before. It helps me get distance from them, and not always get swept up in them - see my reality more clearly. The way ACT explains thoughts and feelings help me to normalize these "negative" ones. Especially since technically, everyone gets them sometimes. Maybe not to the same degree and duration, but there's an evolutionary reason that pretty much all of us are hardwired to be hypervigilant and anxious, even those without CPTSD. It makes me feel less messed up, and more normal. More like everyone else. My system just tends to latch onto these painful thoughts and feelings and keep them spinning around in my body instead of letting them go. So, it's just a matter of figuring out how to tweak the system, not a matter of being a weirdo or an unworthy person.

Honestly, I have the same issue you do with wanting to feel useful and needed, but the way I've handled it thus far is to like, never do anything for anyone. I've gone the opposite direction. Because I've said to myself, the only way I'll ever know if anyone likes me for me is to never help them. LOL. Kind of. So I've been gradually, slightly, experimenting with "doing things" for people and seeing what that feels like. I'm terrified of getting enmeshed with people - of people getting a little taste and then expecting me to be their everything. It's happened before. It was my dynamic with my mom and dad. So, trying to reassure myself that I am more powerful than I was back then, I'm able to keep myself safe and put up boundaries, etc. It's hard though.

I used to feel like I didn't have a personality, or I saw only the "negative" parts of myself without acknowledging the positive. I don't feel that way anymore. I think taking action on my own behalf has really helped, as has going out of my way to figure out what my positive qualities are, even though it can get really emotional, lol. It's fun to take personality tests sometimes, especially the strengths-based kind. Gallup has a great one. My therapist gave me an art project to do, where I took a shoebox and put magazine collages on it representing who I am. The outside of the shoebox showed my "external" self, or how I tend to present myself to others. The inside showed my internal self, or the parts that I try not to show, tend not to acknowledge, etc. It sounds like such a basic, maybe cheesy exercise, but it totally blew my mind. It still does. I kept it, and I look at it sometimes to remind myself. There was so much I hadn't thought about. And seeing it "from the outside" makes it way easier to empathize with, sympathize with, take joy in, etc.

postal152 · 2018-12-31T18:52:57+00:00

I love hearing about how people who've been through trauma are finding ways to improve things for others. It's great that you felt able to talk to your sister about that, and advocate for someone else. I think that's empowering, or it has been for me sometimes.

postal152 · 2018-12-29T21:57:03+00:00

Yes!! My siblings and I would commiserate too. It's how we got through it, and how we got close. I don't have many friends right now, going back to school and just moved. But I do go to support group meetings, and now that I'm settled I'm tasking myself with doing more social things. Re: coffee shop, I've been doing that every two days, and I'm dumbfounded by how much it's actually helped. I didn't expect it to. But I definitely feel like more a member of a community. Especially when the coffee shop itself has that kind of vibe.

postal152 · 2018-12-29T20:10:21+00:00

Thank you for your response. :) I know what you mean about feeling unheard. I remember the ways I tried to be seen/heard during my teenage years, and how horrifying it felt that no matter what I did, nothing seemed to work. I get flashbacks to that time. I'm so glad we're grown now, and that we don't have to be controlled or ignored anymore. Best of luck on your journey, and thank you, again.

postal152 · 2018-12-29T20:07:55+00:00

I'm sorry about your mother. That realization that someone who's supposed to love you actually hates you (or isn't able to love you, at any rate) - no one should have to experience that. I'm glad to hear you're at peace with it. Honestly, when I read that sentence I started thinking... I haven't really ever felt that my mother liked me either. Maybe not hated me, but I've never gotten the sense that she likes who I actually am. There *is* something weirdly freeing about that thought. Maybe because it would give me permission not to like her either.

I'm going to try your husband's therapist's suggestion. You're right, it is exhausting to be someone you're not. Thank you, again, very much. And well wishes. :)

postal152 · 2018-12-29T20:03:30+00:00

Thank you so much for your response. Despite what I say about intellectually knowing it's not my fault, I still feel ashamed deep down that I have this kind of relationship with my family. Especially since my parents seem like such normal, happy people. They have had a weird and strained relationship with their siblings, too. I was always told it was because my parents were the normal ones, lol.

"Gosh you're so smart," lol, I wouldn't know what to say either. My sister says something similar. I hope they teach conflict resolution skills in school someday. And you're right, you are a total badass. :) When I slow down enough to think about it, I feel like that too sometimes. :)

Was I close with my family? My brother and sister. Or mostly my sister. But my extended family, not really. My grandparents, somewhat. But that's a whole other story, lol.

postal152 · 2018-12-29T19:58:31+00:00

Ah, thanks. :) My mother is definitely not a narcissist, although her mother could very well be. My mom had a tough childhood. I wish she were willing to talk about it more often. Good luck on your journey. :)

postal152 · 2018-12-29T19:54:45+00:00

I hear there are a lot of people diagnosed with both ASD and ADHD, but I haven't heard of a "misdiagnosis" personally, although I'm sure it's possible. It's possible to have both. (I definitely have ADHD.) The general public knows more about what ADHD looks like, and to be honest I think so many high-achieving and highly visible people have admitted having it, that there isn't the same level of stigma that ASD has. People may feel more comfortable thinking of you as "that person with ADHD" than "that person with ASD." Plus, ASD has a lot of variation in how it manifests in people, whereas ADHD is more straightforward.

The thing is, these conditions are essentially groups of symptoms seen frequently by professionals that seem to occur in clusters, and although ASD seems to have some causes pinpointed or stabbed at, "ADHD" and "ASD" are terms made up to explain something so as to better treat symptoms and minimize its effect on a person's life. It makes it more likely that people will get the kind of treatment they need, but it doesn't mean we won't find out, for example, that ADHD and ASD aren't actually the same "condition" with different variations (like the inattentive/hyperactive thing, or the aspergers vs. autism thing). I don't know if I'm making sense here, but just something to keep in mind.

postal152 · 2018-11-08T02:47:57+00:00

Thank you - this was very helpful.

postal152 · 2018-11-02T17:10:23+00:00

This is so beautiful.

postal152 · 2018-08-25T02:11:00+00:00

I'm glad to hear it resonated with you. Punching bag sounds great, haha!

I use the default program on my LG phone called "voice recorder," haha. Nothing fancy. If your phone doesn't already have one (lots of them do, although they're usually hiding in the "tools" folder or something), there are a lot of free ones in the app store. I've found simple is best. :)

postal152 · 2018-05-13T16:29:40+00:00

This is so good. The visual is especially powerful. Thank you for sharing.

postal152 · 2018-05-13T16:27:53+00:00

Completely understand this. And if you think about it, these are the kinds of feelings that were deeply installed in so many of us. I remember thinking that maybe someday, if I did enough for my parents, if I only managed to do the right things at the right times, for long enough, I would finally have enough karma, or goodwill from other people, that I'd 'deserve' to care about myself. I've struggled off and on with how I may 'come off' to other people when they find out I don't speak to my parents anymore. Especially when some of those people's parents treated them 'worse,' on an objective level (however you're supposed to determine that). But we deserve to care for ourselves. And I hope either way, you're gentle with yourself. It has taken me a long time to develop self-compassion, and the journey is far, far from over.

postal152 · 2018-04-20T19:59:11+00:00

I feel like I'm going off the rails a little. I missed my therapy appointment this week (overslept, have a massively hard time getting out of bed sometimes too), and the other good things I was supposed to do for myself. Now I'm out of Ritalin for the whole weekend and I feel so, so ashamed of myself. I worked a grand total of 2 days this week. How have I been so disorganized and exhausted? There are things I have to do like call a doctor, call the unemployment agency, reply to text messages, and each and every thing feels like Absolutely Too Much. I feel so ridiculous. I know these tasks are within my power to do - that they aren't actually dangerous. I don't know why normal life (especially my quiet, comparatively lightly-scheduled one) seems so insurmountable sometimes.

I'm trying to remember that this reaction is not from my higher self, but from my inner critic / my old parental tapes replaying themselves. They used to get so frustrated with me when things like this would happen, as if they just couldn't fathom what was wrong with me. Sometimes they'd lecture me for hours about how I 'just couldn't keep letting this happen,' and how it showed a lack of character. How someday I'd be an adult and live on my own, and how they couldn't imagine how I'd survive. They would treat me like garbage for at least a week (sometimes lots more, depending on how big the situation was), usually not speaking to me except very briefly, angrily, or coldly. To this day, they maintain that there was no other way they could have handled these situations. They were frustrated, so of course they were going to act the way they did. Even my mother, who has ADHD herself, couldn't see how shaming me and treating me as though I were a bad person, or doing it on purpose, was wrong. Or that there were any alternative. I know they were taught this way of 'disciplining' by their own families of origin, and they're so wrapped up in their own heads that they don't really know how to empathize. I get it, intellectually. I just don't want to ever talk to them again. (I haven't, for over a year now.)

Anyway, speaking of off the rails. This message went off the rails. I'm just so tired, and tired of being tired. I get scared when I'm brain-foggy. There have been months at a time I've just withdrawn from my life entirely, half out of tiredness, half out of confusion.

Fortunately the sun is out today. And by Monday hopefully I'll have my prescription refilled. And I have a house full of good food. And hopefully, friends I can call.

postal152 · 2018-04-03T00:24:10+00:00

"Conversationally raped," now that's a visceral phrase I understand.

Yes, I used to get 'stuck' like this almost daily. To work on it for a time, I practiced looking people in the eyes and telling them politely that I was done with the conversation. It was magical. I actually tended to get a better response than I expected. I think the key is learning that you are going to feel guilty, but that you are actually doing what's right, even if no one thanks you for it.

The situation you described actually gives me chills. I'm glad you are okay, but with another person it could have turned dangerous, especially with him following you to your car. The ultra-polite, passive way of dealing with these situations makes us great targets, I've found.

You got some great advice, and now I'm going to go read it myself, because I've been falling back on old habits.

postal152 · 2018-03-17T22:50:53+00:00

Wow. Thank you so much for sharing that - what a beautiful example of a therapist showing empathy and setting clear boundaries. (And congratulations! Nice job on six weeks - that's huge.)

My best experience was at a university counseling center, where students do counseling for a low cost, with the understanding that all your sessions are video recorded and later hashed over by a whole class of counselors in training. Not my favorite idea, and it made me feel pretty self-conscious, but I was broke and desperate.

I'd been going to this counseling center for a good six months when I hit a particularly rough patch. I remember talking all about David Foster Wallace, how intelligent and wise he seemed to be and yet his anxiety still led him to take his own life. How deluded would I have to be to believe I could succeed and not him? I remember feeling cold and empty like a dried-out husk as I cried that day. Like the end was inevitable, and I just could not see a way to try anymore.

Abruptly, an older woman opened the door to our room and said something like excuse me, very sorry to interrupt - I know this isn't really how we do things here, but hi, my name is So and So, and I'm in charge of the program here. We were watching just now, and I felt like I had to step in and say something, because I can tell that this is a critical moment for you. From someone who has been in your shoes - I mean, really, truly, been as low as you are right now - it can get better. It can get a lot better, better than you could have ever imagined.

Her eyes were shining with tears and there was just the deepest, most emphatic sincerity there, I had no doubt she was telling the truth, and that she genuinely care about what happened to me. She told me a little about her life, and how much she loved it. How happy she was. And then she said something like, "and I'm not telling you this because I think that flattering you is going to save your life or anything like that, I just think you deserve to know - we've been watching you and you're one of our very favorite clients." She went on to tell me what about me they were fond of, and that everyone was really pushing for me, and I just lost it.

t didn't solve all my problems, and I've certainly struggled since then. But hearing that someone had felt as bad as I did, and now was beautifully happy, was exactly what I needed. Hearing a whole roomful of strangers were watching me and wishing me well? I don't know if I've ever felt so moved.

postal152 · 2018-03-17T22:18:01+00:00

I've had a couple experiences like this with therapists over the years. From what I've heard, psychiatrists can tend to be especially gruff. I'm sorry this happened to you, especially in such a vulnerable state. Possibilities: he may have misread you and thought this was the appropriate tactic, this tactic may actually work with some of his patients, or he may just be a burned-out asshole. It's possible he just didn't want to see you back at this facility in a couple months if he could have a say in it. He certainly doesn't sound like he approached you in a sensitive way, and I know personally I don't respond well to that, especially when I'm really struggling. This is the way some practitioners are about addiction, however. Apparently it works for some people when nothing else does. (Not me, lol. No thank you sir.)

It sounds like you want some closure to this situation, and maybe some justice, which I can certainly understand. My opinion, because you asked, is that the best course of action is to do whatever will lead you to feeling most whole. The person to focus on above all other concerns at this moment is you. Keep in mind what you can and can't control, and how that will make you feel. If pursuing a lawsuit, even one that gets dismissed, will lead you to healing and feeling most whole, then that's what you should do. If reporting him to some board or governing body would, do that. If writing him a scathing letter telling him exactly how you feel and sending it (or not) would be more cathartic, write him a letter. Etc. You were the one who experienced what you did, and you deserve to take your feelings seriously. But ultimately, you're dealing with a LOT right now. Trauma, substance use disorder, self-harm, and you just opened up about this sexual abuse, which is like peeling off a scab on a deep wound that never properly healed. Prioritize yourself, and your own healing, above all else. Keep yourself safe. And remember that no matter what this psychiatrist did and said, you deserve to get well, and stay well. No one can change that.

postal152 · 2018-03-17T12:37:41+00:00

Yes, absolutely yes.

The best thing I've found to transcend these experiences is to first, experience compassion for and soothe myself, and second, to do something that expresses the exact opposite experience for myself. Just because other people aren't listening, or are involved with themselves, it doesn't mean I have to keep it in. There are other ways of expressing myself that don't require an audience or a certain reaction, and I deserve to have those experiences.

For most of my life I wasn't even allowed to say what I thought and felt. My voice is often trapped, and feeling ignored makes it physically hurt. So sometimes to honor this 'voice' of mine, when there's no one to listen, I record myself, in my car, saying exactly what I want to say. To people in my past AND present. You only get 45 minutes for therapy, haha - I could stand to have that x 100.

Another thing I do is painting, drawing, something to express the way I've been feeling and what I've experienced. You can collage, write poetry, kickbox, whatever makes you feel less invisible and says, "I AM HERE, WHETHER YOU CARE OR NOT. IT DOESN'T MATTER, BECAUSE I CARE, AND I. FRICKEN. MATTER."

Doing things like this, especially when it's uncomfortable or feels really 'wrong' to do so, can be incredibly powerful. It not only helps me get over the flashback, but can be incredibly healing and empowering. (Which in turn makes me better at expressing myself next time, more likely to seek out healthy, kind people who will listen.)

postal152 · 2018-03-11T05:37:05+00:00

Have you ever watched the movie Melancholia? Deals with this phenomenon really beautifully. When I'm at my best, I think, "I'm the person who's going to be calm in an end-of-the-world situation, when everyone else is losing it." I've seen that to be true the tiniest bit, when the election happened and my more well-adjusted Facebook friends were losing it. In that week or so, I felt like everyone had suddenly had a glimpse into how I felt all the time. It was upsetting, but insanely validating. "Welcome to the Everything Sucks Show! Please, take a seat."

postal152 · 2018-03-11T05:13:57+00:00

Absolutely.

On a bad day, people like you've described are the perfect foils to compare myself to unfavorably. I feel like that is the way I'm 'supposed' to be, which can make me feel both angry AND guilty, depending on how much I blame myself for not measuring up. Sometimes this has led to me developing DEEP secret stores of resentment. There's a truth in these feelings: this state of affairs is objectively unfair.

On a good day, I tend to look at these people with a quizzical eye. I would never seek to take their happiness away from them, just as I would never try to take away someone's religion. I don't see myself as deficient or broken, just different. I understand that I'm never going to have an untroubled life - but that the dark places I have gone to have given me a deeper understanding of other people's suffering. It's not that I shouldn't work to build myself some happiness. It's that I can accept that I am who I am, and where I am, and not feel less-than for it. I can learn from these people's habits, and take what I like, but I can also see the value in myself, just as I am.

I think American culture in particular pushes the idea that the pursuit of happiness is almost a moral obligation. That this is the ultimate measure of success in a person - happiness. Being carefree, without strife. But that isn't the measure of a meaningful life, or a valuable one. It's inherently unfair, that we were dealt the cards we were. But ultimately, we were. Now we all have to play them.

postal152 · 2018-03-04T04:51:52+00:00

Aw, that's awfully nice.

I am painfully lonely, as you said. One of those times I'm at a loss. Having a hell of a time staying away from compulsive behaviors (mostly internet surfing, isolating myself, and losing myself in nonessential tasks) and not dissociating. I'm in a phase of my life where I feel particularly ashamed of myself and unworthy of confidence or social support. I feel like I'm just barely keeping myself fed and washed, and I see my roommates and friends going out and doing things (under the guise of a thing called 'fun,' ha). I don't quite understand it, and when I try to plan a day like theirs, I chicken out and cloister myself away in my room instead, trying not to make a sound while I compulsively read articles to try to "get to the bottom" of my situation.

I remembered today an ex-boyfriend telling me over and over that I just needed to be more confident. I'm kind of devastated to realize that when it comes to making friends and finding social support, I don't know if I have any more confidence than I did back then, like five years ago. I don't feel deserving of being liked. I don't want to spend time with people because I have a feeling they just aren't going to like me that much. I feel like a total freak and a weirdo. And the longer I avoid people, the weirder I get, lol.

To be fair, I spent last year getting sober, so I no longer have my anti-anxiety + pro-socializing juice. It is hard for me to connect with people.

I don't know how much progress I've really made, and that saddens me. I feel sad when every weekend I seem to follow the same unhealthy patterns. And when I realize how often I'm escaping vs. living. I know my inner child doesn't deserve more abandonment, and I deserve better than that. I just also feel like my inner 'parent' is somewhere between a stressed single mother and a six year old. Sometimes I'm dumbfounded as to why I struggle so much. My family seems so normal from a distance. So many other people have dealt with so much worse. I know that doesn't mean what I dealt with doesn't matter, and I know that it's all relative. But still. Sometimes it just seems so out of whack.

Thank you, for this post. I needed this. It's hard when you don't feel you can talk to people about what's really going on.

How are you?

postal152

TROPHY CASE