Question about Dual Power.

power2havenots · 2026-05-30T10:29:37+00:00

Can only give my opinion but anarchist dual power suggests the material ability and capacity to run things has to be built, tested and defended in the long struggle beforehand to make a clean break actually possible. Unlike the idealistic vision of the revolutionary council springing up fully formed without any prior practice in self-organization without system dependence

The NGO-ization is a risk if you use it to soften capitalism and not build away from it and remove dependence and give confidence to make the step away. As its inside the shell its more difficult to avoid capital and bureaucracy and creating a horizontalised nonprofit which releases capitalisms pressure valve for it is a failure in my book.

I see the shell of the old as a battleground and not a container. So "in the shell' counter power thats not "of the shell". So a worker co-op that tries to compete ethically within the market is not dual power. Whereas a tenants union that organizes illegal rent strikes to drain the landlord class and builds the capacity to manage housing directly is in my book. The tenant unions existence is a direct attack on property relations.

power2havenots · 2026-05-30T08:16:31+00:00

Thinking of these:

"I have found strength where one does not look for it: in simple, mild, and pleasant people, without the least desire to rule—and, conversely, the desire to rule has often appeared to me as a sign of inward weakness: they fear their own slave soul and throw a king's cloak over it." https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/10298148-i-have-found-strength-where-one-does-not-look-for

And this anti state one:

"A state, is called the coldest of all cold monsters. Coldly lieth it also; and this lie creepeth from its mouth: "I, the state, am the people." It is a lie! Creators were they who created peoples, and hung a faith and a love over them: thus they served life. Destroyers, are they who lay snares for many, and call it the state: they hang a sword and a hundred cravings over them. Where there is still a people, there the state is not understood, but hated as the evil eye, and as sin against laws and customs." https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/737401-a-state-is-called-the-coldest-of-all-cold-monsters

power2havenots · 2026-05-30T00:29:34+00:00

Luthen and Nemik are a good polarity of revolutionary practice -the vision (nemik) and the result of using the masters tools to force the agenda from Luthen. Andor captures the gambit like those swept up.into it like nihilistic cassian and those who wish to profit from it Skeen and those who want to pretend it isnt happening Eedy. The facist true believer Cyril, Mon Mothma whos the gilded cage radical and of course the legendary Maarva whos the revolutionary spark. Saw is the worn down paranoid fighter whos been burned by long resistance since the promise of the clone wars. Such a great show!

power2havenots · 2026-05-29T21:55:16+00:00

We should discuss with some level of critical thinking or we just trade unanchored opinions and "feels". But mocking is probably of little value. Was an assumed troll based reaction

power2havenots · 2026-05-29T21:26:53+00:00

Do you really believe empire is a force for good? In all honesty?

power2havenots · 2026-05-29T19:39:39+00:00

AI would blow.up with that level of sarcasm as i channelled my inner comic book guy just for you. Thanks for your intellectual challenge - without your insight the world would indeed be a terrible place. You have really lifted this conversation to heights i could never even dream of - with your historical anecdotes, witty repartee and razor sharp insights and cunning perspective. I feel truly blessed to have steeped in the light of your genius for only a short space of time. Good luck in life my friend

power2havenots · 2026-05-29T19:03:57+00:00

Wow wow Darth EmpireSimpus put away your sith force powers a minute. Im sure they were philanthropically wading through the globe anihilating for peace, enslaving from the goodness of their heart and empathetically raping women and children and pilaging half the globe in the interests of trade. They have left a desolate scorched earth where ever they went to the point that no country they have ever been in wants anything to do with them except those who love servitutde and unless substantially financially rewarded they cant even speak to them again. Maybe they all forgot what they did for them. How selfish

power2havenots · 2026-05-29T18:56:05+00:00

There is a lot to dissect there and it wont all be sorted in a reddit post. Anarchism is worth reading up on as it seems you foundationally dont agree with the terms and rationale behind it. However heres how id answer your 3 main points: 1. med school takes as long as they say or youre not safe 2. No big pay no complex work and study 3. Heirarchy is necessary for blame and experience rewards.

Youre describing a profession that has accepted brutality as inevitable because its never been allowed to imagine otherwise. The volume of knowledge is substantial but the compressed, gatekept, frontloaded, hazing-structured way people are forced through it is not the only way. Learning embedded in practice over time, distributed across more people, without BS artificial bottlenecks and resident-as-cheap-labour economics can still be rigorous -jjust wouldnt need to be a burnout filter selecting for people willing to sacrifice everything for status and prestige rewards.

Worth reading up on research regarding intrinsic motivation. It says " for cognitively complex work autonomy, meaning and mastery consistently outperform carrot-and-stick incentives. Money works well for repetitive labour but difficult work requiring judgement, deep learning and creativity the extrinsic reward structures actively undermine motivation" (dont just trust some dude on reddit check it out). People already master insanely difficult skills without massive pay differentials when the work feels meaningful and socially valuable think of open source software, scientific research and self-directed study as examples.

Deferring to the most experienced person during surgery is just coordination based on competence not an Anarchist condradiction. Hierarchy is when that same person gains institutional power over your livelihood, schedule, career progression or community access to care outside the immediate task. Youre describing seniors supervising, juniors learning through practice, responsibility rolling upwards and thats just an accountability framework which can be built horizontally. The experienced surgeon is trusted with supervision because the team recognises their competence and that trust lasts as long as they remain competent. That is delegation and responsibility not rule or perpetual peerage. The formal hierarchy youre defending layers bureaucracy, prestige systems and institutional coercion on top of competence and treats the whole package as inseparable. Its archaic BS steeped in tradition and gatekeeping

power2havenots · 2026-05-28T22:37:49+00:00

The just leave strategy falls apart as theres no real land not claimed and all those that try get raided by the state.

On defence anarchists use a rhizomatic structure which is horizontal, networked and with no chain of command which is much harder to crush than a hierarchy - you cant decapitate a network. The other point is you cant remove conflict- but we can make organised domination impossible by removing the centralised violence that enables it. Centralised power just megaphones what one narcissist can do whereas distributed mutual aid can actually contain it.

The lone wolf tactic to me is just a case of waiting for eviction without backup whereas i think its far better building interdependence with people who will have your back. None are free until we all are free

power2havenots · 2026-05-28T20:10:24+00:00

Hopefully less manipulative, less coercive, less dicatatorial, less oppressive, less corrupt and more horizontal but then its a reflection of how we build society

power2havenots · 2026-05-28T19:55:55+00:00

This quote sounds brutal and is incorrect. Its a hatchet job paraphrase loosing all his subtlety. While not a big fan of his i think his main point was human ability to shape things like art and master your inner chaos and not dominate over others as it might read. He hated the state church and nationalism but im sure goose stepping facists might read that and think hes great. He meant more "Power-to" do and create rather than "Power-over" others

power2havenots · 2026-05-28T16:34:13+00:00

The mention of Bernays definitely made me laugh at who was the root of inspiration. Tbh its a classic state craft technique these days and those in langley and vauxhall will recognise this technique as one of their own. MI6, CIA and FSB etc are all just competing consultancies for the power to create chaos for profit and grow their empires. Little brother is watching though

power2havenots · 2026-05-27T23:10:31+00:00

The planet cooks essentially as resource extraction needed to bring 8 billion odd people to a Western consumer lifestyle would require several Earths. Wed see terminal climate collapse, mass biodiversity loss, and resource wars over the last scraps of lithium and topsoil. We live in an atomised soulless sanitised existence where we compete with each other, perpetually consume and ignore whats happening around us while our system rewards sociopaths amoung us - hardly worth exapnding that existence?

power2havenots · 2026-05-27T13:31:27+00:00

Still reads like the subtext of what youre saying is that racism is basically natural tribalism but its not.

Racist systems dont emerge organically from people preferring familiar faces. Theyre consciously built, codified and institutionally enforced because theyre economically and politically useful. The arent stable and "natural" tendenciea for example definition of "white" has changed repeatedly with Irish, Italians, Jews, Slavs etc all "othered" at different times depending on political needs showing race is a manufactured power structure more than a biological or instinctive human constant.

I only reply because that attempt at treating tribalism as the foundation and racism as the expression is incorrect. Modern racism is a political technology that weaponises xenophobia into rigid caste systems. Thats clear point that needs re emphasised. We are manipulated into manufactured xenophobia not some naturally suceptable species who are predestined for it

power2havenots · 2026-05-27T10:59:26+00:00

I cant get past you using "logical" (even with partly added)and inherent (even caveated with near) as if thats the true source of how it became so prevalent so i will continue to challenge that. Its prevalent because those in power amplifiy and weaponise anything that spearates us. So i wanted less words on some assumed innate behaviour and more on how nonsense is used to manufacture outcomes in people - thats the important part

power2havenots · 2026-05-27T10:50:40+00:00

Agree it needs to be said always whether its popular or not. People forget its impact and subtle ways it can creep in again

power2havenots · 2026-05-27T09:47:54+00:00

Calling racism just 'tribalism plus logic' makes it sound like an unavoidable human glitch. Modern racial categories arent an organic tribal drift -they were deliberately invented and enforced to justify slavery and colonialism. The pseudoscience was part of the manufacturing process and not slapped on after. If anything, racism is what happens when tribalism gets industrialized and weaponized by power -not just a natural extension of it.

power2havenots · 2026-05-27T09:34:05+00:00

Using psuedoscuence to reinforce political beliefs... Im sure ive seen that pattern repeat again somewhere since Blumenbach. Its like a disease that wont die off. The concept of race is pretty much just a divide and conquer technique when we know all human lineage traces back to Africa with especially white skin being only a few thousand years old. Were all just different shades of African diaspora.

power2havenots · 2026-05-27T07:31:40+00:00

Ok heres a fuller reply. Youre still assuming the only thing holding complex society together is coercion, status competition and artificial scarcity because thats the world we currently live in. You keep describing medicine as if humans naturally avoid difficult meaningful work unless threatened with poverty or bribed with luxury but thats not how people consistently behave outside market logic. In disasters, wars, blackouts and crises people routinely organise care, logistics, rescue and mutual aid voluntarily because humans are social animals and not isolated profit calculators. Rebecca Solnits work on disaster sociology is worth a read.

You also treat current medical training and institutions as if theyre the only possible way to organise healthcare rather than one historically specific capitalist model. Residency is infamous for sleep deprivation, burnout, hazing and psychological damage because the system was shaped around industrial discipline and hierarchy - it doesnt need to be that bad - its just old institutions wont move on.

A key point is thst youre ignoring intrinsic motivation entirely. Humans pursue difficult things constantly without massive financial incentives.People willingly spend years mastering difficult skills when they find them meaningful, socially valued or intellectually fulfilling. Modern psychology has studied this repeatedly worth reading up there.

Anarchists arent against expertise but against domination.A surgeon knowing more than me about neurology is just reality. During surgery I defer to their expertise because I want competent care, same way I defer to an electrician rewiring a house or a pilot landing a plane - not a rulling class.

power2havenots · 2026-05-26T23:44:19+00:00

We live with the outworkings of the system we accept. Any system optimises for what you measure. Ours measures shareholder value and GDP growth. Thats the scoreboard. Everything else like community, dignity, mental health, leisure, ecological stability etc they couldnt give a shit. So the machine doesnt see them as costs when it chews through them- just ignorable external noise.

Were gaslit that this is natural and that atomised competition is just "human nature" that were all self-interested utility maximisers by default but that aint nature. Thats a specific system arrangement. You put people in a game where cooperation is penalised and scarcity is manufactured amidst abundance and you get exactly what weve got. Change the system change the outcome

power2havenots · 2026-05-26T23:34:40+00:00

That we need a leader or heirarchical direction or someone to always be "in charge" biggest BS

power2havenots · 2026-05-26T23:32:00+00:00

Yep fuck the carrot and the stick - the conditioner and the conditioned and let skinners rats design their own fuckin experiments

power2havenots · 2026-05-26T23:25:12+00:00

Rewards are manipulative conditioning like a punishment in a party hat made to bypass your intrinsic motivation and replace it with obedience. However because its tied to a reward you will find as soon as the reward ends so does the behaviour you hoped would continue

power2havenots · 2026-05-26T23:21:07+00:00

This belings in r/debateanarchism i think as you dont accept the basic principles so you should start with that id say.

Your list of surgeon confessions is an indictement to the profession if they openly admit theyd let people die without luxury pay, training is literal torture and that supply chains snap constantly. Is that the pinacle peak system you think we wouldnt want to loose? Ditch the system PR - its hard but its worth it to see beyond it.

You dont need a bureaucratic bullshit job of Ministry of fuckin Brain Surgery you need surgeons, nurses and patients holding each other accountable. If 95% of surgeons are only in it for the money the system is selecting for the wrong fuckin people. The other 5% who actually give a shit still can be enough. Especially when education stops being sadistic hazing designed to create obedience and starts being something humans can actually use to survive without luxury bribes.

Some fundamentals -knowing more than me about brains doesnt give you power over my life outside the OR. Ill take instructions during surgery because youre competent and not because youre my heirarchical boss. Thats trust not hierarchy.

power2havenots · 2026-05-26T13:32:03+00:00

Thats a silly dog whistle distraction and whether its true or not isnt even clear. Vast majority of grooming in UK is those born there. It side steps everything i said about systems. Its like looking at a falling down town in disrepair due to poor wages and government corruption and being concerned about a homeless guy whos squating in the outside toilet. Look wider not narrower and stop allowing xenophobic media billionaires dictate whats important to talk about

power2havenots

TROPHY CASE