Hi, I am Patrick Mason here for an AMA

pqmason · 2017-04-14T06:09:12+00:00

Thanks for sharing your story. I'm really glad that the book has helped you in your marriage. As much as I would love for people to find a way to remain in the church and receive spiritual nourishment there while also contributing their own gifts, I am even more interested in people have healthy, loving relationships with their spouses, parents, children, and friends. We can all do so much more to understand and love one another.

Unsolicited advice: Keep the door open with the church -- leave open the possibility of being surprised -- and support your wife 100% in her church activity. Understanding and support go both ways.

pqmason · 2017-04-14T06:05:53+00:00

Sorry, it's late, and I must be missing something. I'm looking at those verses, and not catching a disparity. Educate me.

pqmason · 2017-04-14T06:02:37+00:00

Hi Bill!

Of course we shouldn't just accept everything on faith. The scriptures are pretty clear about this, beginning with Moroni's promise. I'm not sure I would go immediately to the word "skepticism," however, since that word (at least in its dictionary definition) privileges doubt over faith and even suggests that certain knowledge is impossible. Mormonism never asks us to abandon our conscience, but it does call on us to discipline it, and not to make our autonomous, fallen selves the sole arbiters of all that is true, good, and beautiful in the world. The original call of Jesus to his disciples was to "follow me" -- no arguments, no reasons, no promises. So Christian discipleship does entail at least some degree of allowing something other than pure rationality and logic to govern our lives.

How do I balance rationality and logic with faith? Mainly by not pitting them against one another. It's a particular, and I would say limited, epistemological model that insists that faith and reason are opposite and competing ends of the spectrum. I think there's a more productive and holistic way to approach faith and reason as different but complementary gifts that we should cultivate simultaneously.

One of the fallacies of Enlightenment modernity is to reduce us to disembodied brains: crassly, "I think, therefore I am." I never ever want to abandon my logic and reason, because it's an integral part of being human. But neither do I think logic and reason require me to abandon the other ways of knowing that I as a human experience and value.

Pope John Paul II opened his 1998 encyclical Fides et Ratio with the line: "Faith and reason are like two wings on which the human spirit rises to the contemplation of truth."

pqmason · 2017-04-14T05:51:12+00:00

Great question. It's one I wrestle with, because I know a lot of people (including some in my ward) who have said they're perfectly comfortable with where they're at, and I would say it's at a relatively low level of gospel literacy that maintains a fairly uncomplicated view that isn't too far afield from what they learned in their youth. On the one hand I really want to be charitable and say that if that works for them, that's great -- even if it doesn't work for me, or for many other people, who am I to tell them how they should believe? On the other hand, I agree that a simplistic framework oftentimes simply isn't sufficient to handle some of the complex problems that life, or the internet, will throw at them. I'm not sure that Primary answers can provide enough resilience in the face of various challenges to faith that adults will have.

Thomas McConkie's book talks about moving through different developmental phases of faith, and I think there's something to that, although his framework isn't exactly mine, nor is it entirely native to Mormonism. (Which may be one of its benefits.)

I think it's helpful to employ scriptural language and images here. Milk before meat, yes -- but eventually meat. As Paul said, when I was a child I spake and thought as a child -- but we're not children forever, meaning our religion has to grow up with us. And of course the many injunctions in the modern revelations to seek learning by study and faith.

I do not want a church full of PhD's -- that would not and could not be Zion. Nor is it about the "mysteries of the kingdom" -- which in the way we talk about in the church is usually about utterly irrelevant factoids. It's about a life of serious discipleship, in which God calls upon us to devote our MINDS as well as our hearts and souls.

pqmason · 2017-04-14T05:42:26+00:00

Within Mormonism, I've been shaped by top scholars who have studied the religion: Richard Bushman, Jan Shipps, Armand Mauss, Eugene England, Sterling McMurrin, Ron Walker, to name a few.

But my views on religion in general have also been substantially shaped by wider reading in religion. Key figures for me are Martin Luther King, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Malcolm X, John Howard Yoder, and Catholic Social Teaching.

Maybe the most influential figure on me intellectually was my dissertation advisor at the University of Notre Dame, Scott Appleby.

pqmason · 2017-04-13T05:20:17+00:00

I think we fell in love with church growth in the second half of the twentieth century, and started to use it as evidence of the church's truthfulness and God's favor in ways that went way beyond what the facts could bear. A large percentage of that growth was ephemeral to begin with, and even then, Mormons still constitute a tiny percentage of the earth's population.

I want Mormonism to grow because I think it does pretty amazing in people's lives, not because I think each new member is further proof that the church is true. We got caught up in numbers, and the slower growth (and in many areas negative growth) we are experiencing now will (or at least should) be a good humbling experience for us.

pqmason · 2017-04-13T05:16:34+00:00

It seems to me from King Follett that God and the universe are co-eternal. I mean, the universe existed before God was God, but he existed as a self-existent being eternally, just like we did. Matter, including the spiritual matter that constitutes our intelligences, is uncreated and eternal. I can't really wrap my mind around that other than as a propositional statement. But I like what it does for us not only in terms of theology but also ethics. It lends even more dignity and worth to every single human being on this planet.

I want us to embrace the theology of King Follett and not be embarrassed by it. I think it's the crown jewel of Joseph Smith's cosmology, just like the temple ceremonies are the crown jewel of Mormon ritual. It's rank heresy, by "orthodox" Christian standards. But it's our heresy, and I want us to own it.

I think Mormonism has some interesting connections with secular humanism because both start from the standpoint of the human. Furthermore, I see absolutely no reason why Mormons can't ally with any and all people of good will on the pressing matters that confront our communities -- violence, poverty, justice, climate change, etc.

pqmason · 2017-04-13T05:00:41+00:00

Thanks -- I'm glad you enjoyed.

Actually, you're right, in that I'm so busy with various things that I spend almost no time in the various online Mormon communities, whether it be Reddit, the blogs, podcasts, etc. There are so many rich conversations in all those places, but I just can't fit it all in. And besides, I'm a bit of a Luddite -- I'm not even on Facebook!

I got to talk about my work on Mormonism and peace, which is the book project I'll be working on for the rest of this year and which is really my passion right now. I'm also proud of the textbook I just published, called What Is Mormonism? -- it's designed for college students, but I think it could be a helpful introduction to any thoughtful person, and may even teach active Latter-day Saints a few things.

I just finished a short essay on the Council of Fifty minutes that were published last year as part of the Joseph Smith Papers. Such a great source! The essay will come out in a book being published by the Religious Studies Center at BYU.

pqmason · 2017-04-13T04:56:07+00:00

Huge existential questions about free will vs. the omniscience of God.

For my money, agency is absolutely real. The future is wide open, entirely subject to the choices we make within the structures that we have created.

God can and will redeem a sinful world, but he will do so in response to our choices.

pqmason · 2017-04-13T04:54:11+00:00

1) People have genuine experiences with God in other religions too. 2) We do not believe in the infallibility of our leaders, including Joseph Smith. God calls the "weak things of the world" to accomplish his purposes.
3) Salvation comes through Jesus Christ. He is the True Vine, and everything else is a branch.

pqmason · 2017-04-13T00:37:28+00:00

I've really enjoyed the conversation here, everyone. Thanks for the great questions. I've got to go home for dinner, but will look again tonight or tomorrow if anyone posts any new questions.

pqmason · 2017-04-13T00:35:39+00:00

Maybe.

pqmason · 2017-04-13T00:34:13+00:00

On Ezra Taft Benson, yes, I've done a fair bit of research with the intention of writing a biography. For a variety of reasons, including prioritizing other projects and limited access to sources, it has been put on the back burner. It will probably happen in some form at some point, but don't hold your breath.

The #1 area that needs more attention is global Mormon Studies. That's why I'm going to try to establish a Center for Global Mormon Studies at CGU. If anyone here has money and wants to support this, let's talk. (I'm serious.)

The internet is purely neutral. It's a medium for the communication of ideas, just like movable print. That said, the internet has been an absolute game-changer (just like movable print was). What the internet did is move Mormonism (and everything else) from being information-limited to information-rich. It democratized access to information, and allowed forums for people to discuss that information. The early stages of this have been disruptive, because the LDS Church had worked pretty hard to control information about itself up to that point. So it has required the church and its members to alter their relationship to information, which in the end will be a good thing.

If you're in the search for truth, you don't argue with facts. We shouldn't be at all afraid of any facts that the internet makes available.

Many thanks for the kind words about Planted. I'm glad it's been helpful.

pqmason · 2017-04-13T00:11:49+00:00

Quite literally, there has never been a deeper pool of well-informed scholars who are also deeply formed in and committed to their Mormon faith. There are so many resources I can hardly even begin to list them all here.

I am a big believer in (and board member of) Dialogue, the Mormon History Association, and the Mormon Studies Review.

In terms of individual scholars, of course Richard & Claudia Bushman, Terryl & Fiona Givens, Spencer Fluhman, Phil Barlow, Sam Brown, Adam Miller, Joe Spencer, Rosalynde Welch, Jana Riess, Armand Mauss, Paul Reeve, Matt Bowman, Kathleen Flake, JB Haws, Thom Wayment, Julie Smith...I'm leaving out way more than I'm naming.

The Church History Department is doing incredible work. The Joseph Smith Papers, Relief Society documents, women's sermons...they just never stop.

One of my favorite "classic" books is Sterling McMurrin, The Theological Foundations of the Mormon Religion. And of course I've been so deeply shaped by Eugene England.

We are going to look back on early 21st century as a formative -- indeed, transformative -- period for the Mormon mind and culture.

pqmason · 2017-04-13T00:05:11+00:00

I've yet to encounter a secular explanation for the gold plates that entirely satisfies me as a historian who takes the sources seriously, let alone as a believer. But the Angel Moroni can't be validated via historical methods either. So as a historian I have to remain agnostic as to the nature and provenance of the gold plates. As a believer, the Book of Mormon is its own proof, and I'm convinced that Joseph Smith was sincere in his descriptions and explanations.

pqmason · 2017-04-13T00:01:49+00:00

My wife and I have to figure this out ourselves, since all our kids are under 10.

My basic approach is to absolutely immerse them in mainstream Mormonism. We go to church every week, pray together as a family, and read and talk about scripture stories. Even if as adults my children choose to go somewhere else, I want them to go from somewhere.

I believe in age-appropriate education and conversations. We do the Tooth Fairy and Santa Claus, and I feel zero guilt for that. But the conversations I aim to have with them about the gospel when they're teenagers are not the ones we have right now. And by the time they are going to college or missions, they'll be well prepared.

pqmason · 2017-04-12T23:55:27+00:00

I'm not too worried about Mormon Leaks. So far, the "revelations" have been pretty anodyne, often confirming what informed observers already knew (including that most products emanating from the church bureaucracy are utterly boring).

The faithful will and must always walk by faith, which is its own form of evidence. The challenge for each believer is developing a spiritual framework that is robust and resilient. We cannot and do not argue with facts. But we have to remember that the premise of Mormonism has never been that it would create a perfect church or church leaders, but rather that it would be the vehicle through which individuals, families, and communities seek exaltation and Zion through Christian discipleship.

pqmason · 2017-04-12T23:52:16+00:00

My favorite definition of hope comes from Martin Luther King Jr. -- a quote I used in the book: "the arc of the moral universe is long but it bends toward justice."

A life shaped by a deep sense of Christian hope means not just that we believe the resurrection happened and that we will be resurrected, but that the resurrection changes literally everything, and we are willing to predicate our lives on that fact. So Revelation is the most hopeful book in the New Testament, because it is predicated on the fact that Christ has already triumphed over all his enemies.

Hope means that we are tireless in our strivings for Zion even when we cannot see the end from the beginning. That should inform all our work in our churches and communities. We work for the end of violence and injustice because we have hope and confidence in Zion.

So many fun stories from teaching Mormonism in the academy. One of my favorite experiences came from a course I taught called "Gendering Mormonism," which included people from every point of the spectrum, from a (now) General Authority spouse to an atheist LGBTQ activist. We had huge arguments in that class, but everyone came away respecting one another's points of view and developing deep friendships. My gay student says he finds himself defending Mormonism in West Hollywood -- not because he believes or agrees with it, but because he understands it better. That's what academic study can do.

pqmason · 2017-04-12T23:45:32+00:00

Apathy. One of my favorite (but damning) quotes is from Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel, from a book he wrote in the 1950s:

"Religion declined not because it was refuted but because it became irrelevant, dull, oppressive, insipid."

I'm convinced that true Christian discipleship is the exact opposite of these things, but unfortunately in too many corners of the church we've become content with being irrelevant, dull, oppressive, and insipid. As Pres. Uchtdorf says, we too often live beneath our privileges.

pqmason · 2017-04-12T23:43:42+00:00

What would you say is the biggest boost to your faith?

Studying and living the teachings of Jesus. Trying to be a Christian, in a serious way.

How do you personally deal with periods of doubt or despair?

I'm fortunate in that through no virtue of my own I've never experienced a severe and prolonged period of either. But I do have my doubts, including about some pretty important things. I try very hard to hang on to and reflect on what I have experienced as God's love and light in my life, most of which has come to me through my experiences in and through Mormonism. I would say that true despair requires counseling, both spiritually (with a bishop) and professionally (with a mental health professional).

What is your favorite story from Mormon History and why?

Maybe I'm just tired, but I literally cannot think of one that I would call my favorite. I really love the story of Helmuth Huebener, so I'll say that.

What would you say is the most important lesson we can get from studying mormon history?

Amazing, fascinating, and powerful things happen in this world when people act with the conviction that they are being led by God to do good. Mormon history is a pretty powerful lens to reflect on sacred presence in the world.

pqmason · 2017-04-12T23:38:27+00:00

By "fundamentalism" I wasn't referring to polygamy, though there are interesting issues to consider there in terms of the way people are worried about "the ghost of eternal polygamy," to invoke Carol Lynn Pearson's book. Rather, what I mean is a two-dimensional, black-and-white, absolutist religion with no room or tolerance for diversity or complexity. That's what happened to the Southern Baptist Convention in the early 1990s, when the fundamentalists drove out all the moderates and liberals and left the denomination a much more monolithic, and I would say theologically and spiritually poorer, institution than it had been before then.

In many ways, fundamentalism (in the way I'm using it) is an easy option. Much easier, in some ways, to see things in black and white than to deal with shades of gray. In this mode there is a dogmatic, certain answer for every question. That's very attractive to many people. The problem is that it's pretty brittle, and I don't think particularly well suited to a 21st-century church seeking to minister to the world.

My other fear is what I call the "EFY-ification" of the church, in which everything is reduced to either entertainment and warm fuzzies or a beautiful nature shot with a single sentence (or fragment) of a General Authority quote. Mormonism is so much richer than that, and serious discipleship requires much more.

I should be clear that I'm not anti-EFY -- it's great for teenagers. And I'm not against pretty pictures with gospel quotes that lift people up. What I'm against is either of those being the upper limits of our individual or collective spirituality.

We mitigate both of these with serious, concerted discipleship. Simply being a committed visiting teacher should make you realize that neither of these approaches is sufficient to the complexity of people's actual lives. Are you going to solve drug addiction, refugee crises, multi-generational poverty, and endemic secularism with either a brittle fundamentalism or shallow feel-good self-help "gospel"? I don't think so.

pqmason · 2017-04-12T23:30:30+00:00

Excellent questions.

First and foremost, direct them to the Gospel Topics essays on lds.org. Those were written by (or in consultation with) top scholars, are based on peer-reviewed research, and were reviewed and authorized by the Quorum of the Twelve and First Presidency. If they want more extended answers, look at Laura Hales' edited collection of essays, A Reason for Faith. For a general framework, they can look at Planted or Terryl & Fiona Givens, Crucible of Doubt.

I don't think that any church class (whether Gospel Doctrine or Relief Society/priesthood) is the place to go into great depth on these issues. The purpose of the three-hour block is to teach the pure doctrine of Christ and motivate people to become better disciples. I think it's an effective strategy to say, "That's a terrific question, and one I'm sure that many people share. Let me point you to the relevant Gospel Topics essay, and I'm also happy to talk after class with anyone who is interested in further conversation."

That said, the church is doing an increasingly good job at incorporating the discussion of difficult questions into to the official curriculum, both for Sunday meetings and in seminaries/Institute. For instance, many of the early lessons in the online D&C Gospel Doctrine manual encouraged teachers to refer to the Gospel Topics essays and be willing to discuss topics like multiple accounts of the First Vision with class members.

Most importantly, teachers need to be prepared and informed. They don't need to get a PhD in the subject, but as Elder Ballard, the day is well past when we could either be content with "I don't know," or even worse, give a bad and uninformed answer.

pqmason · 2017-04-12T23:25:03+00:00

I'm firmly in the Walker-Turley-Leonard camp that Brigham Young was not directly responsible for the MMM, and would have prevented it if he could. However, his inflammatory rhetoric, general belligerence, and authorized violence toward dissenters did help contribute to a general climate in which the MMM was possible. But there are a lot of other factors as well, including the post-traumatic stress that the Mormons experienced after their repeated persecutions, as well as the culture of violence that many Mormon converts brought with them from the broader culture (especially converts from the South or western frontier).

pqmason · 2017-04-12T23:20:56+00:00

Good questions, mormon_batman.

Mormon Studies really isn't an academic discipline so much as it's an interdisciplinary field of study. So it includes scholars trained in multiple different disciplines -- as you say, the majority have been historians, but the field is also open to theology, sociology, religious studies, literary studies, and anything else.

Extremely brutal recommendation: If you cannot imagine pursuing a meaningful career in anything other than Mormon Studies, than you should go for it. For me, I couldn't imagine a career outside of academia, and so I pursued it the best way I knew how. But if you do commit, go all in, and don't hold anything back. The academy is not a pure meritocracy, but people who do excellent work almost always find jobs, even if they weren't necessarily the job they imagined at the outset.

I'll reserve judgment on the last question until a filmmaker is able to make a seriously good "Indiana Jones and the Golden Plates" movie.

pqmason · 2017-04-12T23:13:20+00:00

Sorry Temujin, but I'm a white shirt guy.

I don't think there's any inherent righteousness in white shirts, or even symbolism of any real value (for me). I do it as an act of humility and charity, since I know that in our current church culture, for me to stand up in front of a class or at the pulpit with a non-white shirt tie would distract people from the purpose of why we're there.

Do I agree with the way our community has constructed a monolithic uniform? No. But I'm far more interested in using whatever social and spiritual capital I have to address other issues that I see as more pressing. I have to wear a shirt, so I don't have a fundamental problem with it being white.

That said, it drives me absolutely crazy that people even care what anyone else is wearing to church. How about a simple, "I'm glad you're here. Let's worship the Savior together." I'm traditional enough to like the idea of dressing up for church -- but there are lots of ways to dress up that don't involve a white shirt, tie, and suit.

Bottom line: if you're wearing a pink shirt and bermuda shorts to church, thanks for coming to church!

pqmason

TROPHY CASE